Canadian Federal Election

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I still have a hard time imagining people who won't even change the TV channel on their remote in the name of Canadian identity, taking up arms (assuming they can find enough of them) to face down the most powerful military in the history of humanity.

I mean, I'd like to think we have that kind of resolve, but it just doesn't add up in my mind.

As I said on the other thread, you can expect large scale sabotage across the U.S.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I mean, I'd like to think we have that kind of resolve, but it just doesn't add up in my mind.

We don’t. No question about that.

[Acajack]

The good news I think is that even in an era where even the craziest impossible things seem possible, a hostile military takeover of Canada by the US is still in the "most extremely unlikely to happen" basket.

That's not saying that I think that annexation by the US is as unlikely a scenario (still unlikely but not as extremely so), but that if it does happen the Americans will be (sort of) welcomed in.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by theman23

Yet despite that added financial barrier, primary care access is the same in the USA (slightly higher even). We're doing worse, not better. That's less of statement about how good their system is and more about how bad ours is. The reality is that for someone who can't access health care in Canada, it matters little if the service is free or not.

"Added financial barrier" = death or bankruptcy for a lot of people. It's not an extra $20 to see the doctor we're talking about here.

If you have the money in Canada, you can see whatever doctor you want. In the US.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

You'd be surprised. You can get a abortion later in California 24 weeks than anywhere in Canada barring an exception. Even 20 weeks is difficult here

Guns for sure you're right. Labour mostly as well though discrimination cases and wrongful dismissal judgements are much much larger tracking with general protection by lawsuit in the US.

Education is controlled by teachers unions in many states much more than anywhere in Canada. There are free meals for kids. Better individualize Education Plans. Magnet schools (Toronto has a few but nowhere near the level we see in Liberal cities). Meanwhile many province give public money to private schools a policy considered radically right wing in the US. The idea of Catholic schools funded by the state would also be considered extremely right wing.

There’s also the matter of the Trump administration dismantling the Department of Education. Canada doesn’t even have a federal education ministry, education is entirely administered by the provinces here, with the exception of military education. The US having no federal education department actually puts it in line with Canada, which some progressives in the US may be surprised to learn.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by acottawa

As I said on the other thread, you can expect large scale sabotage across the U.S.

It only takes a tiny percentage to do this and to destabilize a country. I think it would really change the US internally and how it is perceived abroad. Canada is sort of a canary in the coal mine for other countries.

Some or most of the craziness might come from Americans themselves. The US is not exactly a highly unified country and they are not culturally on board in any way with annexing Canada. Most Americans know that Canada exists, they think of themselves as good guys, and they don't think of Trump as dictator for life.

The biggest thing the US has going for it is stable international trade and a good alliance system with lots of other friendly countries. If it behaves like China or Russia it will lose some of its advantages in the long run. We are basically their Ukraine or Taiwan.

[harls]

Originally Posted by Acajack

That's not saying that I think that annexation by the US is as unlikely a scenario (still unlikely but not as extremely so), but that if it does happen the Americans will be (sort of) welcomed in.

You can't possibly know what people would do with their backs against the wall.

I thought you, being French, would know that.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I will make sure and remember this for the next French elections when the exact same people on here are screaming at me that Le Pen and the RN are literal Nazis.

Marine Le Pen is a horrible person.

However, when confronted with Elon Musk's favourite party, AfD--Alternative für Deutschland she has seen what full bore Nazis look like in 2024-2025 and has decided that's a bridge too far for her and decided to cut ties with them.

Meanwhile, ketamine addled Elon Musk who boosts white replacement theory accounts on his Twitter/X app thinks AfD are the only party to "save Germany"

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by drew

^ our collective resolve hasn't been tested in 86 years. Who is to say how it would go if it ever came down to an armed conflict with the US? Canada has always risen to the occasion when it's necessary.

But i can't imagine the US wants to annex a country in ruins, so warfare would make absolutely zero sense for anyone.

It seems we've come a long way from mobilizing as a nation to defend Europe, twice, to now questioning whether we would defend ourselves.

Is it because the onus on us would be to take the first step to making fighting real? If we surrender, there is no fight. If Ukraine had surrendered, there would be no fight. Actual war had already kicked off in WWI and WWII, there was no ability to say "it's not real".

Except, we are the Sudetenlnad or Austria. The "war" wasn't real then either. You have to fight back for there to be a war.

Originally Posted by Acajack

I still have a hard time imagining people who won't even change the TV channel on their remote in the name of Canadian identity, taking up arms (assuming they can find enough of them) to face down the most powerful military in the history of humanity.

I mean, I'd like to think we have that kind of resolve, but it just doesn't add up in my mind.

In the worst of worst case scenarios, do we have a plan for this? We have small town armouries - I know in my area, Brantford and Simcoe have armouries. I know there are actual military members here who might tell me I'm being horribly naïve, but if I was involved I'd be giving some consideration to getting these stocked up as a "just in case".

Again, who knows if it happens, but the day the tanks roll is not the day to go "oh shit, we need a plan". If there is a plan, I assume it would be kept secret until it needed to be omplemented.

- how do you organize a plan if the US takes out critical communications infrastructure? How hard is it to bring down cell and internet infrastructure?

-what methods can you use? Every social media is American owned and has algorithms that spot those trying to resist, and prevent you from finding others.

- it's very easy to be disruptive to an occupying force, especially when oil, gas and other resources are part of the appeal of owing us. You can take sabotage a railway with a tractor, or even hand tools. You can drive a truck into a pipeline. But, disrupting the flow of fuel around the country is a big barrier to supplying a resistance as well.

Do we as a nation have the balls? Or will everyone roll over and "it's not so bad, it's not worth dying over"?



Separately, why the fuck does America not have an organized resistance to all this yet?

[lio45]

Originally Posted by acottawa

As I said on the other thread, you can expect large scale sabotage across the U.S.

IMO, really unlikely. AFAIK that sort of thing never happens in developed countries unless religious fanaticism is involved (Northern Ireland). A more likely scenario following an annexation is, anyone who absolutely can’t bear the thought of becoming American can decamp to some other Anglosphere country (UK, Australia, NZ) or else their ethnic motherland, if they still have connections to it.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by jonny24

Separately, why the fuck does America not have an organized resistance to all this yet?

I think that these days if Trump suddenly ordered an invasion of Canada, the odds of impeachment or even a coup/insubordination or assassination would go way up (all it takes for him to be assassinated is for his security team to slack off). The risk of civil war in the USA would also go up. Not so much because of overwhelming concern for Canada but because of the stress on their political system and the fact that Trump would be calling for an action that would have a major impact on the US that most people there don't want. Sensible people there would feel they are sliding into a dictatorship and crazies would be triggered by the instability.

I don't think Trump has the usual structure of elites and true believers around him that most dictators have.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by lio45

IMO, really unlikely. AFAIK that sort of thing never happens in developed countries unless religious fanaticism is involved (Northern Ireland). A more likely scenario following an annexation is, anyone who absolutely can’t bear the thought of becoming American can decamp to some other Anglosphere country (UK, Australia, NZ) or else their ethnic motherland, if they still have connections to it.

Quebecois have at least a little bit of history in bombings and kidnapping and killing government officials. Maybe the ROC could learn from them.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by harls

You can't possibly know what people would do with their backs against the wall.

I thought you, being French, would know that.

Netflix-addicted North American Anglos from the 51st State would not have anywhere near “their backs against the wall”, that’s where your disagreement with Acajack (and me) lies on this one.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by someone123

It only takes a tiny percentage to do this and to destabilize a country. I think it would really change the US internally and how it is perceived abroad. Canada is sort of a canary in the coal mine for other countries.

Some or most of the craziness might come from Americans themselves. The US is not exactly a highly unified country and they are not culturally on board in any way with annexing Canada. Most Americans know that Canada exists, they think of themselves as good guys, and they don't think of Trump as dictator for life.

The biggest thing the US has going for it is stable international trade and a good alliance system with lots of other friendly countries. If it behaves like China or Russia it will lose some of its advantages in the long run. We are basically their Ukraine or Taiwan.

Yes, the US' advantages right now as a global superpower are razor thin. If they attack Canada, I'm not exaggerating when I say that they're finished.

The US is running a deficit that’s 7% of GDP and growing. Just the Federal deficit. They can get away with that for now because they have the world's reserve currency. It's backed up by force and also the alliance/trade system that it has fathered since 1945 that you describe. But if alliances aren't worth anything anymore then the world will dedollarize, the Americans won't be able to borrow money so casually, and their enormous armed forces - a lot of which is about to go through a major capital overhaul right now that will cost trillions - cannot be funded.

Internally, they are riven by enormous wealth/income disparities and a population that has split off into two ideological camps that can barely talk to one another. The US is like a parched California forest that's just waiting for a spark.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Quebecois have at least a little bit of history in bombings and kidnapping and killing government officials. Maybe the ROC could learn from them.

I almost added that to my post (that even the most hardcore Quebec sovereigntist nowadays doesn’t engage in sabotage against the occupying forces of our more powerful Anglo-Canadian neighbors).

It’s not the world we live in anymore.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

The US has a debt-to-GDP ratio of 7% and growing. Just Federal debt. For the first time, government spending and consumption exceeds national income; they cannot grow without adding to the money supply, which they can because, for now, they have the world's reserve currency. It's backed up by force and also the alliance/trade system that it has fathered since 1945 that you describe. But if alliances aren't worth anything anymore then the world will dedollarize, the Americans won't be able to borrow, and their enormous armed forces - a lot of which is about to go through a major capital overhaul right now that will cost trillions - cannot be funded.

Internally, they are riven by enormous wealth/income disparities and a population that has split off into two ideological camps that can barely talk to one another. The US is like a parched California forest that's just waiting for a spark.

In some ways maybe the US and world would revert back to a pre-WW2 state. There would be follow-on effects like Europe and Japan re-arming. We would end up with WW2 style issues as they would look for resource supplies found in the territories of weaker countries that previously were defended by the global order. More countries would want nuclear weapons. I'm not sure China or Russia would survive (Russia has never faced something like the EU historically, and could not even win against Germany or Japan one on one), and there's some chance no country would survive if too many nuclear weapons were used.

If you are sensible and in some higher up role in the US government you'll understand that the current circumstances benefit the US a lot and do what you can to avoid these risks.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Yes, the US' advantages right now as a global superpower are razor thin. If they attack Canada, I'm not exaggerating when I say that they're finished.

The US has a debt-to-GDP ratio of 7% and growing. Just Federal debt. They can get away with that for now because they have the world's reserve currency. It's backed up by force and also the alliance/trade system that it has fathered since 1945 that you describe. But if alliances aren't worth anything anymore then the world will dedollarize, the Americans won't be able to borrow money so casually, and their enormous armed forces - a lot of which is about to go through a major capital overhaul right now that will cost trillions - cannot be funded.

Internally, they are riven by enormous wealth/income disparities and a population that has split off into two ideological camps that can barely talk to one another. The US is like a parched California forest that's just waiting for a spark.

Excellent post.

Should I send President Nero (I mean Trump) a fiddle so he can practice while awaiting the conflagration????

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Excellent post.

Should I send President Nero (I mean Trump) a fiddle so he can practice while awaiting the conflagration????

It will be interesting to see the response in the second half of this year when the layoffs really kick in through the red states. The first quarter earnings will also have an impact. If Business and industry do take a big hit, there will be push back. But I don't believe the political will is there for any pushback.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Hecate

Please, manitoba has had declining student performance for years. Why are we rewarding failure?

Maybe they are not paying them enough? If you want great teachers, you need to make the job attractive. It is not by any stretch an easy occupation. Post-graduate studies are usually required, and often, residency periods. It is not a job that anyone off the street can do.

The outcomes are so important. Along with parents, teachers are tasked with providing children with the tools to succeed in life.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I will make sure and remember this for the next French elections when the exact same people on here are screaming at me that Le Pen and the RN are literal Nazis.

You are playing the victim even before the fact!

Nobody would ever dream of screaming at you about Le Pen and the RN being nazis. Why would they? Ask yourself: what would be their motivation to scream at you? ....unless maybe you had a history of minimizing or otherwise making excuses for attitudes and behaviors that are commonly construed as...well, sort of connected to attitudes and behaviors that have been associated with Nazism? I can't think of any other reason why people on SSP would scream at you.