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View Poll Results: Electric Vehicle Ownership Poll
I own a BEV (Battery Electric Vehicle) 7 21.88%
I own a PHEV (Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle) 2 6.25%
I own an HEV (Hybrid Electric Vehicle) 2 6.25%
I'm considering a BEV (Tesla, LEAF, Bolt, etc.) 6 18.75%
I'm considering a PHEV (Volt, etc.) 6 18.75%
I'm considering a HEV (Prius, etc.) 3 9.38%
I would only buy a non-electric gas or diesel car 3 9.38%
I don't want a car 4 12.50%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 32. You may not vote on this poll

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  #921  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2022, 6:58 PM
SidetrackedSue SidetrackedSue is offline
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Originally Posted by Tesladom View Post

When government tries to meddle in the private market, bad things happen.
With Tesla releasing the CCS adapter in North America, one of the first things I see happening is that it will be a harder to get a slot at an L3 charger when on a trip. That has just opened up those chargers to 2/3 of the EV user-base (and the cost at those chargers is almost always less than the supercharger network so there is an economic incentive to use the CCS chargers, even when there are SC chargers along the route.
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  #922  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2022, 7:08 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tesladom View Post
When government tries to meddle in the private market, bad things happen.
Tesla fans saying this is really ironic.
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  #923  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2022, 8:41 PM
Tesladom Tesladom is offline
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Originally Posted by SidetrackedSue View Post
With Tesla releasing the CCS adapter in North America, one of the first things I see happening is that it will be a harder to get a slot at an L3 charger when on a trip. That has just opened up those chargers to 2/3 of the EV user-base (and the cost at those chargers is almost always less than the supercharger network so there is an economic incentive to use the CCS chargers, even when there are SC chargers along the route.
Very few Tesla owners will buy the CCS Level 3 adapter you are referring to, we all have the L2 adapter but given the Supercharger network and how well it works, not many will ever bother with a 3rd party charger unless absolutely necessary.
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  #924  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2022, 9:46 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
Tesla fans saying this is really ironic.
Sometimes this thread needs a like button. But it's actually not ironic. Most monopolies had government help and as they become dominant seek to keep out new entrants. Their supply chain is light on Canadian content but overall it's a North American success story.
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  #925  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2022, 6:03 PM
SidetrackedSue SidetrackedSue is offline
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Originally Posted by Tesladom View Post
Very few Tesla owners will buy the CCS Level 3 adapter you are referring to, we all have the L2 adapter but given the Supercharger network and how well it works, not many will ever bother with a 3rd party charger unless absolutely necessary.
It really depends where you go and what you use your car for.

I only have one car. So it has to go where I want it to go, not where Elon and his AI have determined I need to go.

This summer I ended up staying an extra night at a hotel with L2 so that I would have enough range to do what I needed to do and then get to a supercharger so I could continue my trip.

People get old and I couldn't wait another year for the long overdue Supercharger to actually open so I could visit my elderly friends. Tesla's trip planner confirmed I couldn't make it there again this year (and promoted that a supercharger is coming) but it had been saying that for 18 months, so we booked an overnight stay 150km closer to our friends so we could go visit them and get back to a supercharger and continue our trip home.

You are right, many (a majority?) of Tesla owners are not solely EV owners. So, should they want to leave their home area, and venture to where the superchargers "are coming", they can simply take their other vehicle.

But a good number of people I know bought the CCS adapter because they want more flexibility in their travels with their car.
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  #926  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2022, 6:52 PM
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Acajack Acajack is offline
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I mostly charge at home but have noticed that public charging stations have become marginally busier.

Did an out of town drive recently on a not particularly busy evening and stopped at Circuit Électrique in Lachute (exit 260 of the A-50 - av. Béthany) and when I got there was surprised that 2 of the 4 chargers were already taken.

I've stopped there before (I've had my EV since the summer) and had always been the only person there the other couple of times.
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  #927  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2022, 8:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesladom View Post
Hummmm???? Misinformed? Barking up the wrong tree. Every single auto analyst out there will confirm my statement that every OEM, with the exception of Tesla & BYD (very slight profit - China) and perhaps Porsche (hard to really quantify profit and expenses since part of VW), are losing money on BEVs. I can't make this stuff up, its in their earnings reports

Check out Reuters analysis of Toyota vs Tesla in terms of profit per vehicle


It's all about innovation and automation, FSD is the next giant leap

Freemont is the most productive Auto plant in North America (even though it is a legacy auto plant), producing 650,000 vehicles/year and Shanghai is most productive in the World, at nearly 1.1million vehicles based on current run rate. At Shanghai, that is one vehicle every 30 seconds.... think about that!
Thank you. This is a perfect example of the Tesla Fanboy FUD. Toyota's first production BEV is the 2023 bZ4X (which has been delayed because the wheels keep falling off, literally), yet it was the only EV manufacturer you choose to compare to Tesla. There are plenty of other OEMs that are well ahead of Toyota in EV manufacturing.

Meanwhile Ford is demanding its dealers get serious about EVs and Buick Will Buy Out Dealers Who Don't Want to Start Selling Electric Cars.
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  #928  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2022, 3:12 PM
Tesladom Tesladom is offline
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OK... I guess i'm wrong and Ford and GM are the leaders in EVs!

I love these FUD articles that people still like to write even today predicting the end of Tesla and traditional manufacturers will catch up
From 2018:
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2019/08/business/electric-cars-audi-volkswagen-tesla/
Quote:
The survival of some of the world’s most storied car brands hangs in the balance. According to LMC Automotive’s forecast, the huge amount of investment being deployed by Volkswagen will help it sell over 1.4 million electric cars a year by 2025 — more than any other carmaker and over three times the sales Tesla is expected to produce. The alliance of Renault, Nissan and Mitsubishi Motors is on track to rank second in 2025, selling nearly 590,000 electric vehicles that year. China’s Geely, which owns Volvo, will rank third. Tesla will be fourth with 413,000 vehicles, followed closely by Toyota. Daimler, Hyundai, General Motors and Ford are each forecast to sell between 330,000 and 400,000 cars in 2025.
How wrong is this??? So bad, Tesla is at 1.4Million unit in 2022, probably around 4million by 2025
Nothing here on BYD (likely the only one who can over-take Tesla). Polestar (Volvo-Geely EV Brand) will end 2022 at a paltry 50,000 units

Again, there is no way GM Ford etc will be able to profitably scare EV production in the near future

Last edited by Tesladom; Dec 12, 2022 at 3:32 PM.
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  #929  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2023, 8:17 PM
Catenary Catenary is offline
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Back in the summer I noticed IKEA installing some large new electric vehicle chargers in the parking lot outside, back near the Scotiabank. An odd spot for sure.

I now see that these chargers (4 I believe) are occupied by a fleet of electric delivery trucks belonging to GoBolt. They look to be Lion Electric trucks. This makes the location more sensible as they aren't for customer use, but it does put their electric fleet in a prominent location.
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  #930  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2023, 8:28 PM
Takingoff Takingoff is offline
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  #931  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2023, 6:59 PM
CanadaGoose CanadaGoose is offline
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Bump

Freewire Technologies has an interesting product, it is an DCFC fast charger that:
  • Has built-in energy storage capacity of 160 kWh
  • Outputs up to 200kw CCS / 100 kW Chademo
  • Can have two vehicles using the charger.
  • Built-in energy storage can be charged at a speed at 27kw max.
  • supports bi-directional charging (the built-in battery)

For example, if a Gas Stations installs one:
  • If the battery is full, and a car comes in and uses the charger, they can get up to 200kw
  • During the day or night, the battery can refill itself automatically at a speed of up to 25kw.
  • If a car plugs in, and the battery is near empty or empty, it will charge the car at an super low speed up to 25kw (depending on how it is configured)
  • When the power is out due to a natural disaster, the gas station can use the 160kwh built in storage to power the gas station for about 8 hours approximately


This could be a major game changer for:
  • rural sites with lack of power available by utility companies
  • gas stations who need an backup power source to continue selling gas in natural disasters or power outages.
  • sites/businesses looking to limit their demand charges. Demand charges can make fast charging sites very expensive. This solution would stabilize the energy usage to a constant 25kw or less through out the day. Versus, 2000kw at a Tesla supercharger.
  • locations looking to provide fast charging at 200kw, but only see maybe 8-10 cars visiting their charger a day.

Chevron in British Colombia has been installing them at their gas stations as a pilot. The cost of installing one is expensive, I think a Flo 50kw charger (charges a car at 50kw speed) would be around 40k to purchase. This station would cost around 240k (able to charge two cars at 200kw shared) and provide battery backup.


https://freewiretech.com/products/dc-boost-charger-200/
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  #932  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2023, 12:39 PM
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Kyle from Out of Spec Reviews has a video showing Freewire’s booth at CES this year, including an interview with the founder and CEO:

Video Link


I don’t get the fascination with gas stations for EV charging. In most cases they aren’t a good place to charge an EV. I would rather see a focus on restaurants and coffee shops for DCFCs. Freewire can provide similar advantages to them as well.
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  #933  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2023, 1:05 AM
Tesladom Tesladom is offline
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If you follow TeslaBjorn on Youtube you will see how the gas stations in Norway are all now large EV charging stations. This drives retail and restaurant business.
Destination chargers is the infrastructure that is really missing IMO. Not talking about at the grocery store, but any place where you drive to go to as a destination away from home should all have EV chargers (hotels, theme parks, ski resorts). I travel a lot and only use hotels with destination chargers (Hilton brand is pretty good for this)
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  #934  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2023, 9:28 PM
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roger1818 roger1818 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesladom View Post
If you follow TeslaBjorn on Youtube
It has been a while since I watched one of his videos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesladom View Post
you will see how the gas stations in Norway are all now large EV charging stations.
Gas stations certainly have a lot more to loose with the transition to EVs than restaurants and coffee shops, so yes they will be the most proactive at making the switch.

One also has to wonder if a gas station switching to EV Charging makes for better YouTube content than seeing another business adding chargers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesladom View Post
This drives retail and restaurant business.
If the gas station also owns an attached retail and restaurant business. Some don't have any retail or only have a very small convenience store. I don't know about you, but when I stop while on a road trip, I want to get some get something more substantial than what I can get at a convenience store.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesladom View Post
Destination chargers is the infrastructure that is really missing IMO. Not talking about at the grocery store, but any place where you drive to go to as a destination away from home should all have EV chargers (hotels, theme parks, ski resorts). I travel a lot and only use hotels with destination chargers (Hilton brand is pretty good for this)
I agree that destination chargers are an important piece of the puzzle. Anywhere you stop for an extended time is a prime location for a destination charger. As EV adoption grows, more and more hotels will see the competitive advantage of installing them (and will install more).

Theme parks and ski resorts will be more of a challenge, as there isn't enough competition to make not having a destination charger make people choose to go to a competitor instead (or not go at all).

The most important piece is making it so that everyone can charge where they park when at home, as this is the most reliable and convenient place to charge (most people sleeps every day). This can be especially problematic for those in Multiple dwelling units and those without off street parking, but can also be a problem for those who rent a house.
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  #935  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2023, 1:21 PM
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'Disappointing' usage of electric vehicle charging stations in 1st year
One city-owned charging station was used just 65 times in 2022

Ben Andrews · CBC News
Posted: Apr 17, 2023 4:00 AM EDT | Last Updated: 5 hours ago




A full year after they were installed, Ottawans appear slow to embrace the city's new fleet of public electric vehicle (EV) charging stations — but usage is trending upward.

The City of Ottawa installed a total of 24 EV charging stations across 16 sites spread throughout the city (some sites have two chargers). It currently bills $2 an hour for the service, a price point it says is in line with other cities.

As of last Friday, each of the city-owned charging stations had been in place for at least one year. In that time, a clearer picture of how Ottawans are using the technology has emerged.

In all of 2022 — including six dates where not a single charging session at a city-owned station was recorded — the chargers were used an average of just under 15 times per day. That number falls well below one use per charging station each day.

The station at Ottawa city hall was used the most, with 908 charging sessions recorded in 2022. On the other end of the spectrum, a charging station located at 1551 Lycée Place, a short side street near The Ottawa Hospital, was used just 65 times last year.

Total daily uses across the entire city ranged from 47 at the peak to just zero at the low end.



Raymond Leury, president of the Electric Vehicle Council of Ottawa, called last year's usage "disappointing," but added the slow uptake is a "chicken and egg" problem.

"People don't have electric cars because there's not charging available," he said. "So it might take some time after the charging stations have been deployed for them to start getting used a lot."

Mitchell House, a product manager with the city's climate change and resiliency unit, said Ottawa has recorded "some pretty good usage to date."

"We've seen a progressive growth in the usage of those stations over time," he said.

House said the city didn't set specific usage targets, instead hoping to use the data to get a sense of which stations were being used most frequently and why.

That information, he said, will allow the city to evaluate where to put future stations, should it choose to.

Leury said public charging stations are most useful for two demographics: those who don't have a permanent charging location at home, such as people who live in apartments or condos, or those who are visiting the city, such as tourists.

Many people are priced out of purchasing EVs, he added, because they don't have access to their own charging station.

"We don't want that to be an obstacle," he said.

The City of Ottawa has opted for Level II public charging stations, able to replenish somewhere between 30 and 40 kilometres of range for each hour of charging. By contrast, Level III fast charging stations can fill a battery in between 20 and 40 minutes.

House said the city chose Level II stations because their smaller profile is better suited to the mostly residential locations where the current crop of chargers resides.

He said the city is currently "evaluating" the type and amount of any chargers it may install in the future.

Despite the slow uptake, Leury said Ottawa needs "many, many more" fast chargers, but added local government can't solve the shortfall by itself.

"It shouldn't be something the municipal government is driving alone," he said. "Certainly the city has a role to play, but we're hoping to see some private players be much more active in Ottawa."

With files from Sara Frizzell

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-ev-charger-usage-1.6811594
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  #936  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2023, 1:28 PM
OTownandDown OTownandDown is offline
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The model is a bit different and we're figuring it out still.

These stations are geared to locals. Only the top 10% of people can afford an EV at this point, until the used market becomes better. Of those people, most live in a house with a 240 in the garage/driveway. So no charging required randomly in a neighbourhood for several dollars a go.

If I lived in a crappy apartment building downtown, I'd rather charge overnight at a block heater plug than leave my expensive car on a random side street, paying good money for a small amount of electricity. It becomes a very expensive proposition to regularly charge at one of these.

When travelling, sure a charger comes in handy, but a traveller isn't going to use a random 240 for several hours, they're going to seek out CT or Ikea when passing thru Ottawa.
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  #937  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2023, 1:36 PM
pattherat pattherat is offline
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Not sure if this is a good spot for this question, but does anyone know about the qualifiying measures for the NRCan ZEVIP grant?

I.e. If a building’s proposal meets the requirements set out, do they 100% qualify and receive the grant or does NRCan potentially only select a subset?

E.g.
Building A - fully meets and sends in proposal on time and correct - receives grant.

Building B - fully meets and sends in proposal on time and correct - grant is denied.

Essentially, is it binary or do they pick and choose?
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  #938  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2023, 2:09 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTownandDown View Post
The model is a bit different and we're figuring it out still.

These stations are geared to locals. Only the top 10% of people can afford an EV at this point, until the used market becomes better. Of those people, most live in a house with a 240 in the garage/driveway. So no charging required randomly in a neighbourhood for several dollars a go.

If I lived in a crappy apartment building downtown, I'd rather charge overnight at a block heater plug than leave my expensive car on a random side street, paying good money for a small amount of electricity. It becomes a very expensive proposition to regularly charge at one of these.

When travelling, sure a charger comes in handy, but a traveller isn't going to use a random 240 for several hours, they're going to seek out CT or Ikea when passing thru Ottawa.
And yet the justification for spending millions of dollars for these stations which was repeated again in the article is uptake is slow because there aren't chargers available.

The real barrier is for sure apartment dwellers. Converting whole condo garages seems like better value for money.
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  #939  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2023, 2:13 PM
Tesladom Tesladom is offline
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Read back at many of my posts on EV Chargers. They always get it wrong, and the reason is simple - the policies are implemented by people who do not have EVs.
I keep on beating my fist on the table when it comes to this issue and having "non-EV" owners tell me what is wrong with EV Charging

Next month I will be starting my 6th year exclusively driving an EV. I can say with absolute confidence that none of these chargers are useful or even really needed. Furthermore the company I work for sells all the infrastructure for Public Charging

Easy Facts:
1) Every EV should charge at home, this will constitute 95%-100% of the charging for most people . There are problems with people who live in Condos and street parking, but there are solutions
2) People over-estimate the amount of Electricity required, all you need is a 30AMP maximum Level 2 (24A continuous). In Condo applications, you can share a 100AMP 3Phase load back for 20-30 cars. I charge 1-2 times per week, approx 3-4 hours to charge. If I charge 8 hours a week, that leave 160 hours not charging (to put things into perspective when looking at load-bank sharing capacity at condos for example)
3) All "Destinations" should have chargers, this includes hotels, resorts and other places you would need to travel an extended distance to reach
4) Just like EPA MGP ratings, not all EVs are efficient, the Hummer and upcoming Ram pickups have around 220kw batteries, that is madness and a total waste. If we are going to drive EV adoption and affordability, we need to prioritize EV efficiency - fewer batteries, lower cost, less weight=more range per kw/h, and more EVs you can produce with the same amount of resources. My Model 3 with a 75kw battery travels further than the Hummer with 212kw battery, and one Hummer = almost 4 SR+ Model 3's
5) Improve the network and reliability for non-Tesla L3 chargers. These should be primarily located along highways between urban centers. I would be scared to roadtrip a non-Tesla EV (or just buy a freaking Tesla as I told my sister after taking 8 hours to come to Ottawa from Toronto in her Polestar because Electrify, Ivy and other chargers suck !)
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  #940  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2023, 2:23 PM
Tesladom Tesladom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTownandDown View Post
TOnly the top 10% of people can afford an EV at this point,
This argument is so wrong, that's another thing which is driving adoption down

Average price of a new car in Canada is now $57k:
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/owning-a-new-car-is-getting-more-expensive-here-s-why-1.6234773

I know I have a Tesla bias, but a Model 3 cost is $54,990 and you get a $5k Federal incentive (plus another $7k in Quebec).
A model 3 is significantly below the the average price

Add to this the fuel and maintenance savings, say even $300 per month over ICE vehicle, that's $36,000 over 10 years!

You hate Elon Musk, ok then A Chevy BOLT EUV is a fantastic bargain, $45k less incentives
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