YEG - Edmonton Int Airport - Page 47

Rocket252 · #**921** Posted **Nov 5, 2007, 2:45 PM**

It appears YCC has their LH FRA flight confirmed.

Do we have a chance of getting the AC FRA flight?

Bigtime · #**922** Posted **Nov 5, 2007, 2:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocket252

It appears YCC has their LH FRA flight confirmed.

Do we have a chance of getting the AC FRA flight?

If you mean does YYC lose the AC flight to FRA then the answer is no, it is being downgraded to a 767-300 but will still run daily at the same time as before. However the question remains about what happens to the 330 that is operating the route now, where will that metal go?

Coldrsx · #**923** Posted **Nov 5, 2007, 4:34 PM**

^hopefully Edmonton...i cannot believe we dont have a FRA/MUN flight yet.

evolv · #**924** Posted **Nov 5, 2007, 5:35 PM**

I doubt a YEG-FRA route will be added as its just to much capacity for Alberta. The airlines have chosen YYC as the international hub. This is probably due to more business travellers out of YYC. Airlines have to cater to business travellers as they often determine if a route is viable. Obviously there are exceptions such as YEG-LHR but with LH adding service they will at least test the route out for a while before adding more capacity.

#**925** Posted **Nov 5, 2007, 5:45 PM**

Should be interesting. Then again, LHR is served 3x daily through YYC and 1x dialy via YEG. That market is strong and FRA is just as strong, if not more interms of connecting for business.

Rocket252 · #**926** Posted **Nov 5, 2007, 6:48 PM**

So the YEG-LHR was just a token flight by AC to keep EAA happy and think they actually care about Edmonton?

it sure seems that way.

#**927** Posted **Nov 5, 2007, 7:07 PM**

AC does care about YEG. I think people get "care" and business strategy mixed up.

AC business strategy is taking business from the prairies and flowing through YYC. YEG is large enough that it has its own natural pull for flights that forces Air Canada to introduce non-stop flights to LHR, LAX...so and so forth. However, you won't see many non-hub flights coming from YEG. For example a YYC-SEA flight would not transfer to YEG-SEA. It isn't hubbed.

Do I like this, nope. Do I agree with the model, yes. Air Canada uses it, and will continue to because it works.

Bigtime · #**928** Posted **Nov 5, 2007, 7:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by brento79

AC does care about YEG. I think people get "care" and business strategy mixed up.

AC business strategy is taking business from the prairies and flowing through YYC. YEG is large enough that it has its own natural pull for flights that forces Air Canada to introduce non-stop flights to LHR, LAX...so and so forth. However, you won't see many non-hub flights coming from YEG. For example a YYC-SEA flight would not transfer to YEG-SEA. It isn't hubbed.

Do I like this, nope. Do I agree with the model, yes. Air Canada uses it, and will continue to because it works.

Probably one of the best explanations I've heard on the subject of how AC treats the Prairies, specifically Alberta with regards to YYC and YEG.

Rocket252 · #**929** Posted **Nov 5, 2007, 7:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by brento79

AC does care about YEG. I think people get "care" and business strategy mixed up.

AC business strategy is taking business from the prairies and flowing through YYC. YEG is large enough that it has its own natural pull for flights that forces Air Canada to introduce non-stop flights to LHR, LAX...so and so forth. However, you won't see many non-hub flights coming from YEG. For example a YYC-SEA flight would not transfer to YEG-SEA. It isn't hubbed.

Do I like this, nope. Do I agree with the model, yes. Air Canada uses it, and will continue to because it works.

Nice explanation Brento

Unfortunately we are at the whim of AC's business strategy and when they feel we are big enough to get FRA.

Was it different when there was competition from Canadian Airlines?

LO 044 · #**930** Posted **Nov 5, 2007, 7:28 PM**

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to realize AC's plan for YEG. Simply put there is none. YYC won the battle a long time ago and they will stay on top but...

Quote:

Originally Posted by brento79

YEG is large enough that it has its own natural pull for flights that forces Air Canada to introduce non-stop flights to LHR, LAX...so and so forth.

By this logic, we should easily have a YEG-FRA route. There are just as many people flying to Europe from Edmonton as Calgary. Do i really have to count the people that fly through YUL and YYZ let alone YYC to get to Frankfurt and beyond? The East Indian, Pakistani, Polish and Ukranian populations in Edmonton alone could fill a YEG-FRA flight on a 767.

Now i'm not sure about the IAH flights but there seems to be a lot of business people on here saying that that flight would easily work as well.

FRA and IAH is all i'm asking for. I don't know much about the orient bound public but you know that YYC would get the first flight to the orient ahead of us. There are way too many reasons for that arguement that's why i believe it's a waste going after an orient flight. Perhaps a cargo flight but not a scheduled passenger flight.

I hope my money will go to KLM the next time i fly to Europe.

#**931** Posted **Nov 5, 2007, 7:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to realize AC's plan for YEG. Simply put there is none. YYC won the battle a long time ago and they will stay on top but...

By this logic, we should easily have a YEG-FRA route. There are just as many people flying to Europe from Edmonton as Calgary. Do i really have to count the people that fly through YUL and YYZ let alone YYC to get to Frankfurt and beyond? The East Indian, Pakistani, Polish and Ukranian populations in Edmonton alone could fill a YEG-FRA flight on a 767.

Actually, YYC would still be the focus because the would want to increase frequency out of YYC by funnelling from YEG strengthing the YYC hub. The next step will be FRA from YEG, but only when YYC routes are mature and/or another carrier is challenging there route via YEG.

Believe me Air Canada has a business strategy for Edmonton, and it works well. I think once we see more emb-175 and such enter the fleet Edmonton will continue to grow, even with YYC next door. Look at YOW, good example.

One thing is other airlines are going to take note of this move. They are going to see YYC has plenty of options to Europe why YEG with a good amount of business' (albeit less than Calgary) needing service to continental Europe. Enter KLM or LOT.

Bigtime · #**932** Posted **Nov 5, 2007, 7:41 PM**

I just saw over at a.net that YOW is getting a FRA flight starting June 1st.

More details here:
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/3688586/

Also note that the YUL-FRA flight will be switching to the 77W as of April 1st, freeing up another A333 route. This metal has to be getting allocated elsewhere, perhaps YEG's time is coming soon?

Coldrsx · #**933** Posted **Nov 5, 2007, 7:41 PM**

LOT would make perfect sense...but i truly hope we see LH come in here with a 67 or the like.

LO 044 · #**934** Posted **Nov 5, 2007, 7:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by brento79

Actually, YYC would still be the focus because the would want to increase frequency out of YYC by funnelling from YEG strengthing the YYC hub. The next step will be FRA from YEG, but only when YYC routes are mature and/or another carrier is challenging there route via YEG.

Believe me Air Canada has a business strategy for Edmonton, and it works well. I think once we see more emb-175 and such enter the fleet Edmonton will continue to grow, even with YYC next door. Look at YOW, good example.

One thing is other airlines are going to take note of this move. They are going to see YYC has plenty of options to Europe why YEG with a good amount of business' (albeit less than Calgary) needing service to continental Europe. Enter KLM or LOT.

In that case, we will need to see at least YYC-FRA go 3x weekly plus maybe 14 weekly charter flights to somewhere in Germany. I mean AC flies 2x weekly to LHR, BA flies 1x weekly to LHR, then add Air Transat, FlyGlobespan, My Travel, Thomas Cook, and Zoom's charter flights to LGW. This is the "maturity" we need?

AC has 15 EMB-175's with no more on order. It has 36 EMB-190's with 9 more on order. What's your point? These aircraft have already been put in service on other routes or have been used to downgrade YEG-YVR, YEG-YYZ or YEG-YUL flights. They have not been used to introduce a YEG-IAH flights.

Yes AC has a business strategy. Yes it works well for AC. No it does not work well for the citizens of Edmonton.

Your statement about other airlines taking notice and serving YEG. So what you're saying is that AC knows it has no competition at YEG so it won't serve YEG. Again. AC has a business strategy, it works well for AC, it does not work well for the citizens of Edmonton.

#**935** Posted **Nov 5, 2007, 8:50 PM**

LO 044,
I am agree with you frustration, I am a huge supporter of YEG and flying non-stop from there only.

However, until we see another airline enter our market I will not blame Air Canada for making smart business decisions.

Edmonchuck · #**936** Posted **Nov 5, 2007, 11:09 PM**

Is it smart business decisions, or lazy?

AC invested heavily in Calgary to kill Canadian. Now, it needs to match wits with WestJet. So, yes, I can see the strategy, but with a market crying for attention and ripe for the taking...

Plus, I am trying to get the final stats on the LHR loads, and I am getting things like YVR and YYC passengers routinely using the YEG flight...so why not FRA

Rocket252 · #**937** Posted **Nov 6, 2007, 3:26 AM**

Just reading the airliners.net blurb about YOW getting FRA service and it is very frustrating.

I recall there was a EAA promotion in 2006 to have people write in and support a FRA flight.

And EAA was making it their number one priority to get FRA at the time.

That sure impressed AC and LH.

MAH4546 · #**938** Posted **Nov 6, 2007, 9:19 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigtime

This metal has to be getting allocated elsewhere, perhaps YEG's time is coming soon?

Edmonton is extremely fortunate enough to have London.

The A333 is going to Vancouver-Tokyo.

#**939** Posted **Nov 6, 2007, 2:57 PM**

Nice blanket statement. There is nothing to support that Edmonton is "lucky" enough to have LHR.

Jasper and one o nin · #**940** Posted **Nov 6, 2007, 3:37 PM**

I think it would be much different if Canadian Airlines were still around. I always like to look at the Edm/Cal model against the houston/dallas model. But on a smaller version. Both IAH and DFW are very successfull, similar economy as Edmonton Calgary. But American (oneworld) hubs out of DFW and Continental (dont know alliance) hubs out of IAH. I just think if Canada had another major international carrier, we would see at least another European destination. For AC to add another route from YEG to europe would just be contrary to their business plan. I think if CAI still existed - there would be less international flights out of calgary and more out of YEG.