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View Poll Results: Would you vote for a ETS Rapid Transit masterplan scheme?
Yes, I'd vote for more BRT/LRT 301 82.92%
No, what we have is fine. 34 9.37%
I dunno, maybe, yes, no, whatever. 28 7.71%
Voters: 363. You may not vote on this poll

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  #9261  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 6:01 PM
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  #9262  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2019, 8:24 PM
zahav zahav is offline
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Interesting article about Edmonton transit:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/edmonton-city-council-1.5364216

Edmonton transit use low as city set to launch bus redesign

Edmonton's ridership about nine per cent compared to Vancouver's 40 per cent

Natasha Riebe · CBC News · Posted: Nov 18, 2019 6:00 PM MT | Last Updated: November 18

About nine per cent of people in Edmonton take public transit on a regular basis and one city councillor wants that to edge closer to 40 per cent in the coming years.

"Our ridership is quite a bit lower than what we would like," Coun. Andrew Knack said Monday at city hall. "That is a very disappointing number."

At an executive committee meeting, Knack suggested city administration look at other cities to help determine what it would take for Edmonton to get there.

"The fact that Vancouver can achieve 40 per cent ridership on its transit system because they're running a frequent network that gets people where they want to go would suggest to me that people view that as a viable and attractive option for them."

A city report shows ridership in Edmonton has dropped since 2013 when there were 89 million trips a year compared to 87 million trips in 2018.

"A target like that is an aggressive one," Eddie Robar, manager of Edmonton Transit Service, said.

Robar didn't dismiss it.

However, councillors directed administration to look at doubling or tripling ridership in the "short-to-medium term" without setting the 40 per cent goal, seen as too lofty by some.

The discussion about future transit comes as the city released several reports this month outlining the new bus network set to start in August, 2020.

Councillors must decide on updated targets and fares.

Coun. Tony Caterina had suggested it may not be realistic for Edmonton to have the same goals as cities with double the population, like Toronto that gets 65 per cent return on investment in public transit or Vancouver that sees 40 per cent ridership.

Caterina pointed out that ridership has remained the same from 1995 to 2015.

"With all the plans and goodwill and wishes that's gone on for a number of decades, we keep ending up at that nine per cent," Caterina said during the meeting. "There's got to be something different that we should be doing here because this all sounds the same."

Robar said the new bus redesign is different in terms of improving safety, service and performance.

"We're taking an aggressive approach to how we kind of lump all of this together," Robar said.

Quality and cost
The city aims to increase ridership through various improvements, including the bus network redesign, improved safety, replacing buses, better marketing and smart fare technology coming online.

Coun. Ben Henderson stressed that improving quality of service is key to attracting more people who are willing to pay to take transit.

"There's a point at which creating better service and having the resources to create better service, understanding and then figuring out where your fare sits in there, may be more powerful in terms of getting people out of their cars."

Enticing more people to take public transit will also help the city reach its climate goals, councillors agree.

Challenges ahead to boost transit ridership, Edmonton auditor says
Audit makes recommendations for Edmonton's troubled transit system
Henderson said he's worried that the city is now charging too much, which may discourage some people to get on the bus or LRT.

Currently, a one-way fare is $3.50 and a monthly pass is $97.00 for adults. Prices are among the highest in the country, Knack noted.

Knack rejected the idea of raising prices.

"I would hate to see us increase that fare," he said. "The more you increase, the more the ridership can go down.

"The number one thing we've got to fix is providing a service that's comparable to that of driving," Knack said. "And it's nowhere close right now particularly the further out you go in our city."

Seniors and smart fare system
The city is creating a policy for future fares in correlation with the smart fare system set to launch next fall.

One option will see seniors pay 65 per cent of the regular fare — about $65 a month. Currently seniors pay about 15 per cent of the regular fare.

The new fare policy would introduce two other tiers for low income seniors, suggesting lower-income seniors pay a maximum of $35 monthly.

Council's urban planning committee is scheduled to review the bus network redesign in depth at a meeting Tuesday.

Administration will present fare options for the 2019-2022 budget. The new fees would come into effect in February 2020.

@natashariebe

Interesting that ridership has been flat since 1995?
     
     
  #9263  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2019, 5:36 AM
technomad technomad is offline
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Interesting that ridership has been flat since 1995?
interesting, but not too surprising... what genuine improvements have been made to Edmonton's network since 1995?

South LRT? nope. grade crossing at university av killed what could and should have been a win

North LRT was special in that it not only failed to deliver on decently serving it's own route, but also managed to botch service on the NE line too

SE LRT has been such a well conceived project that no one involved wanted to get onboard with building the west leg!
I'm very much looking forward to the PR acrobatics the city will be using to justify the money spent on that mess when it too fails to meet the official expectations...

So naturally the city's response to all this is to put the squeeze on their most captive market and jack up seniors rates!

Comedy gold... I really can't get enough of this town. Just wish I wasn't paying for it
     
     
  #9264  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2019, 3:13 PM
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It will be interesting to see what our municipal bureaucrats will do in the upcoming years with provincial funding drying up.

Do they double down and continue to sink billion after billion in transit producing minimal returns, or actually prioritize based on real needs.

Ignoring that federal and provincial funding has strings attached.....we probably could have turned yellowhead and Terwillegar into functional freeways for what has been spent on recent transit projects.
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  #9265  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2019, 7:58 PM
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Originally Posted by SHOFEAR View Post
It will be interesting to see what our municipal bureaucrats will do in the upcoming years with provincial funding drying up.

Do they double down and continue to sink billion after billion in transit producing minimal returns, or actually prioritize based on real needs.

Ignoring that federal and provincial funding has strings attached.....we probably could have turned yellowhead and Terwillegar into functional freeways for what has been spent on recent transit projects.
Would love to know what the mythical cure all you propose is...
     
     
  #9266  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2019, 1:24 AM
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Valley Line Southeast LRT 'trending behind schedule,' 30 per cent of expected work not yet completed.



Edmonton’s $1.8-billion Valley Line Southeast LRT continues to trend well behind schedule, but south-side Strathearn area residents are getting some welcome news on the project heading into the winter months.

Construction on the 13-km line running from Downtown to Mill Woods is 30 per cent behind where it was expected to be at this point in the schedule, the city said in its quarterly progress report released Friday afternoon. It’s an improvement by two percent from the last update, but not in line with the initial targeted opening of Dec. 15, 2020.

TransEd Partners, the team behind the project, doesn’t have an updated timeline for the line’s completion as crews have been working around the clock to make up time.



https://edmontonsun.com/news/local-news/...wcm/c5d44e9f-858d-456e-b183-e458ae4ba821
     
     
  #9267  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2019, 1:57 AM
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I'd bet Q2 2021
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  #9268  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2019, 3:21 AM
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^^ The river valley bridge is taking way longer than anticipated
     
     
  #9269  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2019, 4:23 AM
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Hard to believe the bridge completion date had already passed, when you compare with where they are at now.
     
     
  #9270  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2019, 6:29 AM
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^

It's almost unreal how this project and many others with the city are struggling terribly.

30% behind!! That's amazingly alarming.

Only two of 41 bridge segments have been completed on the bridge by the end of September, as per the city’s report! Just wow.

Let's face it.....City Hall and its elected officials don't have a clue of what's going on, and how things work.

Iveson is losing his ability to Govern effectively. And has been for a long time imo.
     
     
  #9271  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2019, 5:33 PM
Hardhatdan Hardhatdan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Star View Post
^

It's almost unreal how this project and many others with the city are struggling terribly.

30% behind!! That's amazingly alarming.

Only two of 41 bridge segments have been completed on the bridge by the end of September, as per the city’s report! Just wow.

Let's face it.....City Hall and its elected officials don't have a clue of what's going on, and how things work.

Iveson is losing his ability to Govern effectively. And has been for a long time imo.
Sorry, how is this the COE's fault?
The COE sold the risk of on time completion to the P3. This is horrible financially to the P3 (in theory).
The city could have taken another proponent for more money and maybe they would have done better, but it would have cost that extra money.
Wasn't the funding from other levels also contingent on using a P3 delivery model that included operation?

I mean technically, unless this holds back budget reductions in other transit buckets, this is probably the cheapest this project could have been delivered. Between the initial budget and the penalties upcoming, if a contractor taking a bath is what you consider good for the public purse, this is great value...

In terms of schedule there should be no more motivated contractor than this one, they hold all the schedule risk and penalties from my understanding of the contract model. I just hope the COE hasn't over stepped the contract and gotten in the middle opening them up to that risk.

I'd rather that the P3 had just performed, but from what I know this is on them and not the City... You know something we don't? No? I don't think you really know what's going on.
     
     
  #9272  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2019, 5:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by technomad View Post
interesting, but not too surprising... what genuine improvements have been made to Edmonton's network since 1995?

South LRT? nope. grade crossing at university av killed what could and should have been a win

North LRT was special in that it not only failed to deliver on decently serving it's own route, but also managed to botch service on the NE line too

SE LRT has been such a well conceived project that no one involved wanted to get onboard with building the west leg!
I'm very much looking forward to the PR acrobatics the city will be using to justify the money spent on that mess when it too fails to meet the official expectations...

So naturally the city's response to all this is to put the squeeze on their most captive market and jack up seniors rates!

Comedy gold... I really can't get enough of this town. Just wish I wasn't paying for it
Bingo......
     
     
  #9273  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2019, 5:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Hardhatdan View Post
Sorry, how is this the COE's fault?
The COE sold the risk of on time completion to the P3. This is horrible financially to the P3 (in theory).
The city could have taken another proponent for more money and maybe they would have done better, but it would have cost that extra money.
Wasn't the funding from other levels also contingent on using a P3 delivery model that included operation?

I mean technically, unless this holds back budget reductions in other transit buckets, this is probably the cheapest this project could have been delivered. Between the initial budget and the penalties upcoming, if a contractor taking a bath is what you consider good for the public purse, this is great value...

In terms of schedule there should be no more motivated contractor than this one, they hold all the schedule risk and penalties from my understanding of the contract model. I just hope the COE hasn't over stepped the contract and gotten in the middle opening them up to that risk.

I'd rather that the P3 had just performed, but from what I know this is on them and not the City... You know something we don't? No? I don't think you really know what's going on.


While i don't disagree with most of what you said here.

Yes....the buck stops first and foremost with the COE. And administration over seeing the P3 system. Then with all contractors involved with this circus I call our poorly designed (Tram).

And obviously no one has a 100% grasp of what is actually going on...including you....me...COE or the contractors.

In my business, if i keep on having major technical difficulties it doesn't keep on being blamed on the contractors i hired. It comes back to me at the end of the day.

Definitely is a fine line as you can appreciate.
     
     
  #9274  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2019, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SHOFEAR View Post
It will be interesting to see what our municipal bureaucrats will do in the upcoming years with provincial funding drying up.

Do they double down and continue to sink billion after billion in transit producing minimal returns, or actually prioritize based on real needs.

Ignoring that federal and provincial funding has strings attached.....we probably could have turned yellowhead and Terwillegar into functional freeways for what has been spent on recent transit projects.
Well, when you start to breakdown the ridership stats, LRT ridership has been increasing Y/Y with the exception of 2018 which was slightly lower than 2017.

Read: https://www.edmonton.ca/transportation/PDF/2018-LRT-Passenger-Count-Report.pdf

Bus transit is the real issue here and the City needs (and seems to be) dealing with it.
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  #9275  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2019, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardhatdan View Post
Sorry, how is this the COE's fault?
The COE sold the risk of on time completion to the P3. This is horrible financially to the P3 (in theory).
The city could have taken another proponent for more money and maybe they would have done better, but it would have cost that extra money.
Wasn't the funding from other levels also contingent on using a P3 delivery model that included operation?

I mean technically, unless this holds back budget reductions in other transit buckets, this is probably the cheapest this project could have been delivered. Between the initial budget and the penalties upcoming, if a contractor taking a bath is what you consider good for the public purse, this is great value...

In terms of schedule there should be no more motivated contractor than this one, they hold all the schedule risk and penalties from my understanding of the contract model. I just hope the COE hasn't over stepped the contract and gotten in the middle opening them up to that risk.

I'd rather that the P3 had just performed, but from what I know this is on them and not the City... You know something we don't? No? I don't think you really know what's going on.
Anybody who works for or with general contractors will understand this. They carry the risks and rewards with the P3 contract. Period.
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  #9276  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2019, 4:47 PM
Hardhatdan Hardhatdan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Star View Post
[/COLOR]

While i don't disagree with most of what you said here.

Yes....the buck stops first and foremost with the COE. And administration over seeing the P3 system. Then with all contractors involved with this circus I call our poorly designed (Tram).

And obviously no one has a 100% grasp of what is actually going on...including you....me...COE or the contractors.

In my business, if i keep on having major technical difficulties it doesn't keep on being blamed on the contractors i hired. It comes back to me at the end of the day.

Definitely is a fine line as you can appreciate.
Nope.
The COE was forced to use this procurement model and chose a conglomerate of the largest EPCM contractor in the world (Bechtel) and the second largest GC in Canada (Ellis Don).
They put in an agreement that properly allocated all the risk to deliver on time to the conglomerate. It's not like the COE cheaped out or cut corners in picking the winning proponent.
The buck stops with the P3, they just aren't getting it done.
     
     
  #9277  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2019, 7:58 PM
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Heads to the Urban Planning Committee for information on the 28th of January, 2020.


https://twitter.com/prairieskygondo/status/1192893682262740992
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  #9278  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2019, 8:11 PM
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Originally Posted by CMD UW View Post
Well, when you start to breakdown the ridership stats, LRT ridership has been increasing Y/Y with the exception of 2018 which was slightly lower than 2017.

Read: https://www.edmonton.ca/transportation/PDF/2018-LRT-Passenger-Count-Report.pdf

Bus transit is the real issue here and the City needs (and seems to be) dealing with it.
That Y/Y growth is misleading though. Adjust those numbers to reflect overall population growth and lets see what happens.
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  #9279  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2019, 4:10 PM
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Originally Posted by zahav View Post
Interesting article about Edmonton transit:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/edmonton-city-council-1.5364216

Edmonton's ridership about nine per cent compared to Vancouver's 40 per cent

Natasha Riebe · CBC News · Posted: Nov 18, 2019 6:00 PM MT | Last Updated: November 18

About nine per cent of people in Edmonton take public transit on a regular basis and one city councillor wants that to edge closer to 40 per cent in the coming years.

"Our ridership is quite a bit lower than what we would like," Coun. Andrew Knack said Monday at city hall. "That is a very disappointing number."

"The fact that Vancouver can achieve 40 per cent ridership on its transit system because they're running a frequent network that gets people where they want to go would suggest to me that people view that as a viable and attractive option for them."
Let me think about this for a few seconds. Hmmmm

The two obvious differences between Edmonton and Vancouver is population density (this would include traffic issues etc) and income (housing prices, lower incomes etc). The cities are different and people move around in different ways.
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  #9280  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2019, 5:27 PM
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Originally Posted by big W View Post
Let me think about this for a few seconds. Hmmmm

The two obvious differences between Edmonton and Vancouver is population density (this would include traffic issues etc) and income (housing prices, lower incomes etc). The cities are different and people move around in different ways.
You could also add in weather. It's difficult to justify waiting at a bus stop in -30 only to see the bus you were waiting for blow by because it was full, or even arrive late because of road conditions if you have driving yourself as another available option.
     
     
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