Federal Government & Politics II

[Dougler306]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Trudeau's hubris (not to mention, his incompetence) will exile the Liberals from power for at least 4-5 years. It is crazy that he hasn't departed, despite his party's implosion in popularity. It is now nearly impossible for anyone, even Mark Carney, if he were to take over today, to eke out even a minority, notwithstanding the fact that Peevish Polyester lacks personal appeal (in part because he lies in thrall to the worst elements in the PC Refoooorrrmmmm party*).

*I prefer the old moniker of the CRRAP (Canadian Conservative Reform Alliance Party).

Please keep up the mouth garbage of PP. It's rhetoric from ppl like you that are partly forcing the shift to the conservatives because who wants to be associated with people or a party who calls others names of that nature. It really makes you look incompetent and very
disrespectful. Throw along with Freelands comments that Tornto st. Paul is a referendum on are future. You get the result of what happened.

Currently in sask teachers fighting for contract. There radio ad goes something like" Sask party is destroying education, so do what's RIGHT for your kids, teachers will always do what's RIGHT for your kids".

There support is in the tank like the libs. The only person who knows what's right for you and your family is yourself. Sooner liberals and leftist get that, you will fare
far better.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by niwell

Acajack's dad's observation kinda sounds like something my stepdad would say, but unless you're getting you're whole back done in a very specific and hard to do style they are also nowhere near $2500. A decently sized *good* tattoo at a high end shop costs many times less than that, and there are lots of cheap shops where you can get a piece for well under $100, even if it's not recommended. I have quite a few friends with a lot of high quality tattoos and they once you're a "regular" you can often get deals by being slotted into quiet times and such.

Beyond that it's not hard to find a guy with a tattoo gun who will do it for basically free if you hang out with certain crowds. And the quality that most most guys at intersections have seems to reflect that.

Yeah, all of that is correct too. What I was saying, just to clarify: among the tons of homeless that I know, several have great high-quality body art, which in all cases without exception, predates them becoming homeless (even excluding the financial “drugs >>> new tattoos” aspect, just the thought of sitting still for a long time is not very realistic for most of them, unless they pre-arranged to get their tattoo during a fentanyl OD or a 24+ hour sleep after ~5-6 days awake on crack), while the lesser quality, simple tattoos can be had for cheap or free (often trading a service for it) and I’ve seen homeless people manage to get new (low-quality) tattoos, which would be a surprise to Acajack Sr.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by travis3000

Freeland is no more the saviour of the party than Lord Voldemort is. Liberals need to reset. It will be tough for them to find an identity without Justin Trudeau, given that they have wrapped their entire personality around the guy, similar to the Republicans with Trump.

My short list of new leaders that may have a chance: Mark Carney, Melanie Joly, Sean Fraser, Nathaniel Erskine-Smith.

Disagree with the middle two, it needs to be someone untainted by the JT era. Basically, any familiar name from the current LPC is a big no-no. They should go with either an outsider, or a backbencher that no one has ever heard about (i.e. didn’t participate too much in the current mess).

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by lio45

The Tories outperformed the Oilers on Monday night! Poilievre gets the first star

And Liberal team captain JT tripped over his own skates, allowing PP to crash the net on a breakaway and score the winning goal.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by whatnext

The author makes some interesting points for those who see Freeland as the party saviour:

...Above all, a loss in the middle income inner-Toronto riding is a repudiation of both the redistributive tax measures announced in the budget and the class warfare rhetoric that Freeland has used to sell the tax hikes....

With a median household income of $70,655 — placing it smack-dab in the middle of both Ontario and the country socioeconomically — Toronto—St. Paul’s is as Main Street as it gets. The results from Monday’s byelection indicate that Freeland vastly overestimated the appetite for socking it to the rich among working class voters who are struggling to get by amidst a spiraling cost-of-living crisis.

Compounding Freeland’s problems is the fact that the (likely) losing Liberal candidate is a close ally of the flailing finance minister. Church spent three years working as a staffer under Freeland before making the jump to electoral politics, serving as her chief of staff for two of those years.

Freeland was a fixture in the riding throughout the campaign trail — calling the Conservatives “cold and cruel and small” on Monday — making the byelection loss as much hers to wear as Church’s...

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/rah...iberal-no-more

While I agree with the overall promise, I don't think this analysis is a very good assessment of St. Paul's demographics. While its median income might be right in the middle, it's anything but a middle-class riding - rather, it's quite polarized between a very wealthy eastern half, and a more working class western side. Overall, there are a pretty diverse range of neighbourhoods and communities within the district.

So, it doesn't necessarily follow that the middle or working-class don't support redistributive tax measures - it was a close race, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Conservatives dominated the rich part while the Liberals did better in the poorer parts. It's also much more Jewish than the average riding, and so the Liberal's position on the Israel-Palestine conflict also played a uniquely outsized role.

Either way, this was supposed to be one of their safest ridings in the country. I'd still place a bet on it narrowly flipping back to the Liberals come federal election time; but it certainly demonstrates that nothing they're doing will work at this point - people are just tired of JT & the LPC.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

But who will be official opposition? The NDP or the Bloc? Given last night's very poor showing by the NDP, I'm tempted to say it's going to be the Bloc.

I don't agree with the Bloc and think the idea of Quebec as a separate country is a postcolonial era anachronism in this more difficult world where Canada gets pushed around and is in decline (I'm not offended at the idea of Quebec separating, I just think as implemented it would either be harmful or meaningless), and I don't know much about them in the post Gilles Duceppe era, but I could see them being better than the NDP or Liberals as official opposition. It would be nice for the Liberals and NDP to be taken down multiple pegs for a while.

There is the "fuck Trudeau" crowd who are generally CPC or PPC decided voters, but there's also a large group of voters who aren't happy with Liberal economic policy and are not focused on personalities. I'm in that camp. If something miraculous happened and the Liberals started implementing good policies I'd vote for them. I could be wrong but I do not find Pierre Poilievre scary or far right, and the CPC have announced a number of key moderate policies. I have never voted for the CPC, and I'm not in their core demographic probably, but I'd consider it. I think the PP terrified voters are much like the "fuck Trudeau" voters; likely decided Liberal/NDP.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Dougler306

Please keep up the mouth garbage of PP. It's rhetoric from ppl like you that are partly forcing the shift to the conservatives because who wants to be associated with people or a party who calls others names of that nature. It really makes you look incompetent and very
disrespectful. Throw along with Freelands comments that Tornto st. Paul is a referendum on are future. You get the result of what happened.

Currently in sask teachers fighting for contract. There radio ad goes something like" Sask party is destroying education, so do what's RIGHT for your kids, teachers will always do what's RIGHT for your kids".

There support is in the tank like the libs. The only person who knows what's right for you and your family is yourself. Sooner liberals and leftist get that, you will fare
far better.

Sorry for not pretending to like PP. I also dislike Trudeau (and I have referred to him as Tru-doh! several times here), does that allay your hurt feelings? (although I loathe the display of "F*ck Trudeau" flags...something that I see far too often (always on pickup trucks, coincidentally, I am sure).

I will adopt a more 'sask' attitude from now on.

I never realized the power that my words had on SSP to change people's mindsets to support PP. Maybe I am being paid.

By the way, I am not a leftist. If I may paraphrase: Sooner conservatives and rightists get that, you will fare far better.



Dougs and children of the corn. Is there a relationship?

[lio45]

Most people on this forum, by far, dislike both JT and PP. The only disagreement and (potentially interesting) debate would be on which one is the proverbial “lesser evil”. No debate on whether they’re Great Statesmen or not; they’re not, but they are what Canadian politics has to offer nowadays.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

While I agree with the overall promise, I don't think this analysis is a very good assessment of St. Paul's demographics. While its median income might be right in the middle, it's anything but a middle-class riding - rather, it's quite polarized between a very wealthy eastern half, and a more working class western side. Overall, there are a pretty diverse range of neighbourhoods and communities within the district.

So, it doesn't necessarily follow that the middle or working-class don't support redistributive tax measures - it was a close race, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Conservatives dominated the rich part while the Liberals did better in the poorer parts. It's also much more Jewish than the average riding, and so the Liberal's position on the Israel-Palestine conflict also played a uniquely outsized role.

Either way, this was supposed to be one of their safest ridings in the country. I'd still place a bet on it narrowly flipping back to the Liberals come federal election time; but it certainly demonstrates that nothing they're doing will work at this point - people are just tired of JT & the LPC.

All of this is accurate. Only the Jewish issue has the potential to be significant come general election time. It's very likely to flip back in the General and if it doesn't the election is over and Liberal party are wiped out in Ontario.

Interesting if even liberal Jews who support peace are so repulsed by Govt positiosn they switch to Cons. Here it may have been more about turnout than huge vote shifts as Isreal supporters have been Con voters for 20 years.

Meanwhile they get called genocide supporters by the other side. (Who are a lot more numerous in Canada now)

[Build.It]

I never understood why either Libs or Conservatives felt the need to "pick a side" in regards to the Israel-Hamas thing. You're just backing yourself into a corner by picking a side. It would've been far more appropriate, in my opinion, to simply remain neutral, offer safe refuge to any citizens from those countries who need to flee, and advocate for peace in public.

[ssiguy]

Wow, just wow!

I went to bed last night and it looked like a Liberal win by about 5% and I wake up and find the Liberal bastion of Toronto St.Paul's has gone Tory. As I stated earlier, I knew that the Tories would gain a hefty amount in support but I still didn't think they would win the seat. Boy was I wrong.

Trudeau, Freeland, and the Liberal Party can try to spin this anyway they like but the reality is that it is a body blow to the Liberals. This outcome is going to put the fear of God into every Liberal MP in the country..........if the party can't even hold such a Liberal stronghold, then no seat is safe no matter where it is. The background noise of wanting to replace Trudeau is going to become a thunderous roar amongst every MP and even Cabinet Minister. Trudeau's days are truly numbered.

The issue is who would replace him? Freeland, Annand, and Fraser have long since burnt their bridges and the party needs someone who has little affiliation with the current administration but still has large name recognition. The obvious choice is Carney but I am not sure he would want the job. Yes, he would love to be PM but even he knows that it is probably too late to turn the ship around. Even if he manages to keep PP to a minority gov't, which is unlikely, he doesn't strike me as the kind of person who would happily be #2 for 5 years. I could certainly see him wanting to take the job in the following election but for this one I think he will take a pass.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by lio45

Most people on this forum, by far, dislike both JT and PP. The only disagreement and (potentially interesting) debate would be on which one is the proverbial “lesser evil”. No debate on whether they’re Great Statesmen or not; they’re not, but they are what Canadian politics has to offer nowadays.

100%. JT is a known and odious evil. PP remains an unknown but probable evil. Neither is good, but which is better? The known evil or the theoretical evil?

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Build.It

I never understood why either Libs or Conservatives felt the need to "pick a side" in regards to the Israel-Hamas thing. You're just backing yourself into a corner by picking a side. It would've been far more appropriate, in my opinion, to simply remain neutral, offer safe refuge to any citizens from those countries who need to flee, and advocate for peace in public.

Do you mean politically? Or ethically and substantively. The Liberals tried to be neutral. The Muslim voices in their caucus and constintuents were demanding more. We are a G7 country so need to have positions even if we aren't a key player. As a middle voice what we say can sway opinion. Biden would feel more comfortable unequivically supporting Isreal if he was in good company even if it's domestic poltics behing isolated is a bigger domestic issue. Besides which the Liberal deciders. (basically Trudeau, Freeland and a few advisors) probably lean towards thinking Isreal should just wage war more justly. Not suprisingly the opinion of people who don't know what they are talkig about.

For the Conservatives their base is strongly in the pro Isreal camp. They have made inroads with Muslim voters based on cultural affinity but I guess decided either politically or ethically they should stand with Isreal come what may. I think politically it maye win them 2 ridings and cost them nothing.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Don’t worry, he hears people’s concerns. Everything will be fine.

• Video Link

Underneath his typically plastic demeanour, he seems quite shaken, as if he's been crying even. Good.

I'm not enthusiastic about any alternatives to the Liberals. We are in a similar situation to the US in that no party presents any solutions to be truly passionate about. In contrast, the US faces an obvious choice between a chaotic, criminal, dumpster fire and someone whose major flaw is age-related decline.

I would consider voting for the Liberals if this election served as a wake up call and if they were then willing to drastically cut immigration and take more radical steps on all fronts of this crisis. No more speeches and ribbon cuttings and promises that have zero tangible impact.

The CBC talked recently about how students can't find summer jobs because there are little to no positions available. In terms of reasons, they didn't mention immigration levels once, lol. This polite, fearful Canadian tendency to not face reality needs to fundamentally change.

[Hecate]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Underneath his typically plastic demeanour, he seems quite shaken, as if he's been crying even. Good.

I'm not enthusiastic about any alternatives to the Liberals. We are in a similar situation to the US in that no party presents any solutions to be truly passionate about. In contrast, the US faces an obvious choice between a chaotic, criminal, dumpster fire and someone whose major flaw is age-related decline.

I would consider voting for the Liberals if this election served as a wake up call and if they were then willing to drastically cut immigration and take more radical steps on all fronts of this crisis. No more speeches and ribbon cuttings and promises that have zero tangible impact.

The CBC talked recently about how students can't find summer jobs because there are little to no positions available. In terms of reasons, they didn't mention immigration levels once, lol. This polite, fearful Canadian tendency to not face reality needs to fundamentally change.

Watch the lady in the back’s reactions, even she’s having trouble listening to him talk. Lol

[casper]

Originally Posted by Hecate

Watch the lady in the back’s reactions, even she’s having trouble listening to him talk. Lol

Well obviously she is in a state of shock at the outcome.

The liberals have made solid progress in providing stability through the global uncertainty while moving forward with the environmental transition that is needed. She probably knows like the rest of us that is time for JT to step aside and let someone new lead the Liberals.

[Build.It]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Do you mean politically? Or ethically and substantively. The Liberals tried to be neutral. The Muslim voices in their caucus and constintuents were demanding more. We are a G7 country so need to have positions even if we aren't a key player. As a middle voice what we say can sway opinion. Biden would feel more comfortable unequivically supporting Isreal if he was in good company even if it's domestic poltics behing isolated is a bigger domestic issue. Besides which the Liberal deciders. (basically Trudeau, Freeland and a few advisors) probably lean towards thinking Isreal should just wage war more justly. Not suprisingly the opinion of people who don't know what they are talkig about.

For the Conservatives their base is strongly in the pro Isreal camp. They have made inroads with Muslim voters based on cultural affinity but I guess decided either politically or ethically they should stand with Isreal come what may. I think politically it maye win them 2 ridings and cost them nothing.

I guess those reasons are somewhat understandable, but it also just seems kinda phoney. Both JT and PP are WASP multigen Canadians who probably know very little about that region of the world and all the events that led up to this current war. What happens over there is none of their business, and frankly not our problem as a nation either.

I will add that I'm not following the war at all, but from the bits and pieces I've picked up, both sides' actions are deplorable and neither deserve support. The only people who deserve support are the innocent bystanders who have to keep food on the table without getting killed in the process.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Hecate

Watch the lady in the back’s reactions, even she’s having trouble listening to him talk. Lol

She looks sleep deprived.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Underneath his typically plastic demeanour, he seems quite shaken, as if he's been crying even. Good.

I'm not enthusiastic about any alternatives to the Liberals. We are in a similar situation to the US in that no party presents any solutions to be truly passionate about. In contrast, the US faces an obvious choice between a chaotic, criminal, dumpster fire and someone whose major flaw is age-related decline.

I would consider voting for the Liberals if this election served as a wake up call and if they were then willing to drastically cut immigration and take more radical steps on all fronts of this crisis. No more speeches and ribbon cuttings and promises that have zero tangible impact.

The CBC talked recently about how students can't find summer jobs because there are little to no positions available. In terms of reasons, they didn't mention immigration levels once, lol. This polite, fearful Canadian tendency to not face reality needs to fundamentally change.

There was a moment in 2023 when the Liberals held a cabinet retreat in response to their sinking polls where I thought they might come out with some policy changes that would make voting for them palatable again. Instead they basically came out and said they were doing all the right things already and to stay tuned for the next photo op. I think they’ve all bought the kool aid at this point and it’ll take a complete house cleaning for them to make any meaningful changes.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by theman23

There was a moment in 2023 when the Liberals held a cabinet retreat in response to their sinking polls where I thought they might come out with some policy changes that would make voting for them palatable again. Instead they basically came out and said they were doing all the right things already and to stay tuned for the next photo op. I think they’ve all bought the kool aid at this point and it’ll take a complete house cleaning for them to make any meaningful changes.

I kind of respect that to some extent to be honest. They tried a small gambit with the capital gains tax but something dramatic was obviously needed and it feels like they are now out of time. A huge tax increase for the rich rather than a small one and instead of just throwing the $ in general revenue they needed to cut something else. Probably dramtic and focussed on getting back to 35% of the voters. Instead it's just meh.