The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[OutOfTowner]

Originally Posted by gunnar777

Does anyone know what's going on with the Montréal REM?
My understanding was that La Caisse and the Province had committed their portions of funding contingent upon federal funding, and that the pro-instrastructure Liberals were expected to confirm their financial support last Fall. But that time has come and gone, and shovels are supposed to be in the ground this spring... Any ideas?

Not sure but the STM had to pull the AZUR trains out of service due to a problem with the suspension that knocked out part of the orange line:

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/montreal/stm-montreal-metro-orange-line-shutdown-1.3937221

Update: it's a problem with a bit known as the contact shoe.

[WhipperSnapper]

Transit agencies need to stop buying from Bombardier.

[TorontoDrew]

That's terrible, problems that should have been discovered during testing not after delivery.

[OutOfTowner]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

That's terrible, problems that should have been discovered during testing not after delivery.

Problems are to be expected in the first year, these aren't bicycles. You can't test for every eventuality.

[OutOfTowner]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Transit agencies need to stop buying from Bombardier.

Right, because all other manufacturers are trouble free. Alstom would have to be boycotted as well since AZUR is a joint venture.

[MalcolmTucker]

And it could be just one train in the fleet, like what happened in Singapore:

How the Circle Line rogue train was caught with data

[gunnar777]

Originally Posted by OutOfTowner

Not sure but the STM had to pull the AZUR trains out of service due to a problem with the suspension that knocked out part of the orange line:

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/montreal/stm-montreal-metro-orange-line-shutdown-1.3937221

Update: it's a problem with a bit known as the contact shoe.

That didn't really have anything to do with my question. But I agree with you that this isn't necessarily a widespread Bombardier-specific issue. It may also be specific to one train. Blame could even lie with Alstom as you've said. In any event, the Orange line was fixed within hours, but that won't stop Torontonians from letting their emotions get the better of them, considering how badly they've been burned with their latest streetcar order.

Anyway, surely someone knows what's going on with the REM. Anyone?

[GreaterMontréal]

the BAPE report has been released on dec 22. 6 days in advance. companies and consortiums qualifed for bids had 6 months to submit a proposal, nov 2016 - april 2017. with the creation of the Canadian Infrastructure Bank, the decision could be postponed. the CIB does not even exist yet.

[OutOfTowner]

Originally Posted by gunnar777

That didn't really have anything to do with my question. But I agree with you that this isn't necessarily a widespread Bombardier-specific issue. It may also be specific to one train. Blame could even lie with Alstom as you've said. In any event, the Orange line was fixed within hours, but that won't stop Torontonians from letting their emotions get the better of them, considering how badly they've been burned with their latest streetcar order.

Anyway, surely someone knows what's going on with the REM. Anyone?

Relax, the Caisse wants an answer on funding by the end of winter so.. wait until the end of winter.

[GreaterMontréal]

concerning the Azur. They're not the problem it seems. Most likely, the problem is linked to the rails. source , Radio-Canada.
http://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1011...ur?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Azur removed by preventive measure

[OutOfTowner]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

concerning the Azur. They're not the problem it seems. Most likely, the problem is linked to the rails. source , Radio-Canada.
http://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1011...ur?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Azur removed by preventive measure

And only on the left side. Weird.

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by OutOfTowner

Problems are to be expected in the first year, these aren't bicycles. You can't test for every eventuality.

Thats ridiculous. They tested our new streetcars on all of our routes for almost a year before putting them into use. If these were tested properly and built well any problems should have been spotted early on. Having to shut down an entire line in a major city is not a common occurrence. Bombardier needs to get its act together. Imagine if the TTC's new trains on Line 1 had a defect shutting down the line. The city would be crippled costing businesses billions. No its not a bike. It should be built better then a bike.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

Thats ridiculous. They tested our new streetcars on all of our routes for almost a year before putting them into use. If these were tested properly and built well any problems should have been spotted early on. Having to shut down an entire line in a major city is not a common occurrence. Bombardier needs to get its act together. Imagine if the TTC's new trains on Line 1 had a defect shutting down the line. The city would be crippled costing businesses billions. No its not a bike. It should be built better then a bike.

it's not the Azur's fault, it's the rails.
The traces of impact were on the left side only, which would seem to indicate that the rails, not the AZUR cars, could be the cause of the problem, otherwise the abnormal wear would have affected both sides.

[TorontoDrew]

Ok that's more acceptable. Existing hardware isn't Bombardiers fault. Well not as much. It's still an issue that should have been discovered or flagged during design though.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

Ok that's more acceptable. Existing hardware isn't Bombardiers fault. Well not as much. It's still an issue that should have been discovered or flagged during design though.

Alstom and Bombardier partnership

the problem occurred at the Du Collège station.
http://www.stm.info/en/press/news/2017/u...17-service-disruption-on-the-orange-line

[TorontoDrew]

Whipper is right though. It's time we stop using bombardier as a default transit provider. They make great looking products but so do many other companies. The only reason why we chose them for our streetcars was to use Harper's stimulus money. We've had them on our streets now for about 2 years and they are still a novelty for most when spotted on any line other then Spadina. Finally the Queen 501 is starting to see some. I really hope Hamilton goes with another company. This tax payer propped up company needs to prove it can build it's product on time.

[OutOfTowner]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

This tax payer propped up company

This always makes me laugh when I consider the boatloads of money we dump into the dying, foreign owned auto industry. 13.7 billion for GM and Chrysler on which we lost a cool 3.5 billion on the GM stock sale alone, not to mention hundreds of millions in annual handouts under the guise of 'Automotive Innovation Funds' and whatnot. And for what? A shrinking share of NA production and dwindling number of increasingly lower paying assembly jobs that will soon be replaced by robots, that's what. In foreign owned branch plants to top it all off.

Bombardier certainly has its difficulties but it's not alone. When I was living in Berlin, Siemens was being raked over the coals over their years late, over budget ICE train replacement and Deutsche Bahn was taking heat because of it. The situation was only recently resolved, 4 years later.
http://m.dw.com/en/deutsche-bahn-angry-over-siemens-failure-to-deliver/a-16398171

And Alstom has been on the brink of collapse for many years now, a situation that has only been exacerbated by their failure to win contracts in France itself. The amount of money the French government has poured into that concern is staggering.
https://www.google.ca/amp/www.forbes.com...te-save-alstom-once-again/?client=safari

Bombardier could never sell another transit system in Canada and it would barely affect them. Almost two thirds of their business is in Europe - Canada represents less than 5%. Berlin alone has as much rail transit as all Canadian cities combined and they run 100% Bombardier S, U and trams as well as most DB regional and inter city trains. Berlin Air flies Q-400s and Lufthansa regional is one of the first C series customers. There's even a massive sign when you arrive at Hauptbahnhof, their airport like central train station: BOMBARDIER Wilkommen in Berlin.

Bombardier and BRP products represent almost the only tangible evidence that Canada even exists in the rest of the world. I doubt there's a country on the globe where you won't find a Bombardier aircraft or transit vehicle, BRP Skidoo, Seadoo or ATV. But in typical Canadian fashion, we prefer to work at trained monkey jobs in foreign owned branch plants - and pay them for the privilege.

What a bunch of losers.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by OutOfTowner

Right, because all other manufacturers are trouble free. Alstom would have to be boycotted as well since AZUR is a joint venture.

It was half in jest given all the problems the TTC has had with them over the course of 30 years. I also suspect the TTC would have dumped them long ago if not for political inference. They dumped New Flyer for a lot less and, I believe, are still holding that grudge even after Orion Bus demise.

[OutOfTowner]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

It was half in jest given all the problems the TTC has had with them over the course of 30 years. I also suspect the TTC would have dumped them long ago if not for political inference. They dumped New Flyer for a lot less and, I believe, are still holding that grudge even after Orion Bus demise.

I realise that it must be frustrating for the TTC but there's no guarantee that they wouldn't have gone through similar problems had they gone with Alstom or Siemens. Transit vehicles today are highly complex beasts, not the simple mechanical machines of days gone by. Problems abound.

That said, I'm sure that QC companies will be more than happy to continue to provide you with all of your subways, LRTs, streetcars, buses, GO trains, BIXI bikes and all planes that fly into Island Airport since all of your efforts at producing these devices seem to have failed.

Perhaps you could have even talked to the STM before the Presto fiasco. Opus is in its 9th year.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by OutOfTowner

I realise that it must be frustrating for the TTC but there's no guarantee that they wouldn't have gone through similar problems had they gone with Alstom or Siemens. Transit vehicles today are highly complex beasts, not the simple mechanical machines of days gone by. Problems abound.

That said, I'm sure that QC companies will be more than happy to continue to provide you with all of your subways, LRTs, streetcars, buses, GO trains, BIXI bikes and all planes that fly into Island Airport since all of your efforts at producing these devices seem to have failed.

Geez talk about touchy. Why do I get the feeling you're a habsmanfan alt?