Cambie Corridor Updates - Page 46

Vin · #**901** Posted **Jun 26, 2019, 2:21 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

This website might help: https://rezoning.vancouver.ca/applications/

The last minute change in the OCP to make Oakridge area taller before Vision was kicked out during the last election would help somewhat. However along the Cambie stretch where only 6 stories are allowed, a decade has yielded very little result.

Changing City · #**902** Posted **Jun 26, 2019, 4:48 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vin

The last minute change in the OCP to make Oakridge area taller before Vision was kicked out during the last election would help somewhat. However along the Cambie stretch where only 6 stories are allowed, a decade has yielded very little result.

You posted the same comment five days ago, and it wasn't true then, either.

Feathered Friend · #**903** Posted **Jun 26, 2019, 4:56 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by osirisboy

Very cool

Although any projects that don't need rezoning won't show up on this

That's what this list is for

https://development.vancouver.ca/

Changing City · #**904** Posted **Jun 26, 2019, 5:13 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feathered Friend

That's what this list is for

https://development.vancouver.ca/

There's also this list. It has all the enacted rezonings since 2011. Although there's no map associated with it like the current rezonings page, it does give you the chance to find the renderings and plans for anything approved since 2011. If you've got the inclination, you can go through the rezoning lists and add up all the projects already enacted under the Cambie Corridor Plan since 2011 (46 projects with 3,100 units), or those recently approved or submitted (another 16 projects with 950 units).

There are also 29 townhouse projects submitted in the past two years - but there's no unit count for those until they get to Development Permit stage, as there's an expedited process that gives them a fast-tracked rezoning without a detailed unit count.

There are also big sites that were part of the Cambie Corridor Plan that aren't counted in these numbers - Pearson Hospital site, the Langara YMCA rezoning, Langara Gardens and the RCMP site rezoning. Those add up to several thousand additional units also in the approvals process, or already approved.

logan5 · #**905** Posted **Jun 26, 2019, 5:16 AM**

I'll post the Daily Hive article on the 41st and Cambie proposal. Maybe there's some new information. I think we'll see Oakridge Town Centre build up as fast as SE False Creek has, as it's such a desirable area and the densities are fairly high. A short 10 years from now this area will be completely transformed.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/5740-cambie-street-vancouver-oakridge

Aroundtheworld · #**906** Posted **Jun 26, 2019, 5:18 AM**

I think the bigger criticism of the Cambie Corridor plan is the lack of zoning for mixed-use along certain sections as well as major streets crossing it. A missed opportunity to add some walkability IMO.

Migrant_Coconut · #**907** Posted **Jun 26, 2019, 5:32 AM**

(Alas, DailyHive)

The plan looks pretty mixed to me, considering what's there right now.

Vin · #**908** Posted **Jun 27, 2019, 10:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Changing City

You posted the same comment five days ago, and it wasn't true then, either.

Trying all out to prove Vin wrong again?

2016 OCP for Oakridge Town Centre:
https://vancouver.ca/docs/cambie-corridor/Cambie-Corridor-Open-House-Boards-MTC.pdf
Yup, 4-6 stories across the board, with only the corner lots at the intersection of 41st and Cambie allowed something slightly taller.

2018 Cambie OCP:
And two years later, before Vision was booted out, suddenly the City allowed heights up to 30++ and 40++? Tell me they were not desperate to catch up with the suburb city town centres:
https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/cambie-corridor-planning-program-phase-3-information-boards.pdf

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan5

I'll post the Daily Hive article on the 41st and Cambie proposal. Maybe there's some new information. I think we'll see Oakridge Town Centre build up as fast as SE False Creek has, as it's such a desirable area and the densities are fairly high. A short 10 years from now this area will be completely transformed.
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/5740-cambie-street-vancouver-oakridge

They should have done this for their first Cambie OCP. They may have missed the train now that real estate growth is slowing. Always lagging behind others, this city.

Changing City · #**909** Posted **Jun 28, 2019, 12:19 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vin

Trying all out to prove Vin wrong again?

Not necessary to prove it - it's generally acknowledged.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vin

2016 OCP for Oakridge Town Centre:

Yup, 4-6 stories across the board, with only the corner lots at the intersection of 41st and Cambie allowed something slightly taller.

That wasn't what you said. What you said was "However along the Cambie stretch where only 6 stories are allowed, a decade has yielded very little result." That's where 46 schemes with 3,100 units have been approved, with another 1,000+ in process.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vin

2018 Cambie OCP:
And two years later, before Vision was booted out, suddenly the City allowed heights up to 30++ and 40++? Tell me they were not desperate to catch up with the suburb city town centres:

"They were not desperate to catch up with the suburb city town centres".

You're welcome.

Oakridge was already a Regional Shopping Centre, and so became the only location in the Regional Context Statement ODP that was identified as a Town Centre in the City of Vancouver. It was kind of obvious, with all that surface parking - before Brentwood or Lougheed plans were advanced.

The original phases (Phase 1, 2009 and phase 2, 2012) of the Cambie Corridor Plan already allowed taller buidings at 41st and Cambie, but nobody actually submitted an application until recently. The Phase 3 work (started in 2015) led to an expanded area. That phase of work, which also introduced all the townhouse areas behind the four and six storey arterial growth, was identified as a future phase of the Cambie Corridor Plan from day 1. They wanted to get it right, because ODPs (not OCPs) "are development plans that Council has adopted by by-law. After Council adopts an ODP, Council cannot authorize, permit, or undertake any development that is contrary to or at variance with that ODP."

Aroundtheworld · #**910** Posted **Jun 28, 2019, 2:54 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

The plan looks pretty mixed to me, considering what's there right now.

It's certainly an improvement, however, there's that long stretch between King Edward and 41st with nothing. Also, the retail doesn't extend down King Edward and 41st. I don't see why they shouldn't become high streets in the future instead of the traffic gutters they are today.

Migrant_Coconut · #**911** Posted **Jun 28, 2019, 4:32 AM**

There's the (admittedly small) hub at 33rd? Sure, there could be more, but I'm not really expecting King Ed or 41st to transform into a village anytime soon - especially given the *ahem* current residents. Maybe a strip from Kerridale to Oakridge, but otherwise Cambie Phase 3 should be taking up all the development for the next couple of decades.

GenWhy? · #**912** Posted **Jun 28, 2019, 4:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vin

Trying all out to prove Vin wrong again?

2016 OCP for Oakridge Town Centre:
https://vancouver.ca/docs/cambie-corridor/Cambie-Corridor-Open-House-Boards-MTC.pdf
Yup, 4-6 stories across the board, with only the corner lots at the intersection of 41st and Cambie allowed something slightly taller.

2018 Cambie OCP:
And two years later, before Vision was booted out, suddenly the City allowed heights up to 30++ and 40++? Tell me they were not desperate to catch up with the suburb city town centres:
https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/cambie-corridor-planning-program-phase-3-information-boards.pdf

They should have done this for their first Cambie OCP. They may have missed the train now that real estate growth is slowing. Always lagging behind others, this city.

I admire your tenacity and selective reading but you are still incorrect. You're referencing Phase 3, by the way. The mid-rise and townhome phase.

Vin · #**913** Posted **Jun 28, 2019, 6:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Changing City

Not necessary to prove it - it's generally acknowledged.

That wasn't what you said. What you said was "However along the Cambie stretch where only 6 stories are allowed, a decade has yielded very little result." That's where 46 schemes with 3,100 units have been approved, with another 1,000+ in process.

"They were not desperate to catch up with the suburb city town centres".

You're welcome.

Oakridge was already a Regional Shopping Centre, and so became the only location in the Regional Context Statement ODP that was identified as a Town Centre in the City of Vancouver. It was kind of obvious, with all that surface parking - before Brentwood or Lougheed plans were advanced.

The original phases (Phase 1, 2009 and phase 2, 2012) of the Cambie Corridor Plan already allowed taller buidings at 41st and Cambie, but nobody actually submitted an application until recently. The Phase 3 work (started in 2015) led to an expanded area. That phase of work, which also introduced all the townhouse areas behind the four and six storey arterial growth, was identified as a future phase of the Cambie Corridor Plan from day 1. They wanted to get it right, because ODPs (not OCPs) "are development plans that Council has adopted by by-law. After Council adopts an ODP, Council cannot authorize, permit, or undertake any development that is contrary to or at variance with that ODP."

I would expect the entire corridor to be pretty much built up by now, but there are still way too many gaps. Approval doesn't mean anything much to me as it is to you. Maybe your expectations are different from mine, but 46 schemes are by no means a great achievement for such a long stretch of road in roughly a decade.

Most of the 3,100 units you refer to actually come from the tall building nodes at Oakridge, Langara Gardens, Dogwood-Pearson and the old RCMP sites or even the old Translink compound, and not from the 6-storey structures along Cambie. To date, other than Dogwood-Peason site, nothing much had been constructed, and the area still feels suburbia instead of a Town Centre. Maybe you forgot to take a peek at the suburbs for real town centres and the rapid pace of development happening there.

Vin · #**914** Posted **Jun 28, 2019, 6:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

I admire your tenacity and selective reading but you are still incorrect. You're referencing Phase 3, by the way. The mid-rise and townhome phase.

Doesn't matter what phase it is. The fact is that they suddenly upzoned Oakridge's Town Centre from short-mid-rise to tall in a matter of two years. Perhaps many developers submitting projects for the shorter buildings must be rethinking their decisions now. Such mixed signals make the whole process of creating a proper town centre extremely slow. Along 41st directly across Oakridge Centre, a couple of short lower-density structures WITHOUT any commercial space had already been erected. Those include a senior's centre if I am not wrong, as well as a low apartment building at the former Lutheran church site. What kind of town centre is this? Bad planning all around.

Changing City · #**915** Posted **Jun 28, 2019, 7:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vin

Most of the 3,100 units you refer to actually come from the tall building nodes at Oakridge, Langara Gardens, Dogwood-Pearson and the old RCMP sites or even the old Translink compound, and not from the 6-storey structures along Cambie. To date, other than Dogwood-Peason site, nothing much had been constructed, and the area still feels suburbia instead of a Town Centre. Maybe you forgot to take a peek at the suburbs for real town centres and the rapid pace of development happening there.

No - read what I wrote again. All 3,100 units are in 4 storey, 6 storey (and 8-storey projects) along the Cambie Corridor. So are the 950 units in submitted applications.

Oakridge will add another 2,900 units. Pearson adds another 2,170. The YMCA adds another 228 units. The Jewish Community Centre adds another 299 units. Langara Gardens hasn't been submitted yet, but there's an approved policy framework (in 2018) to develop about 2,500 additional units. Similarly the Transit Centre has an approved framework to add about 1,500 units, but no rezoning has been submitted yet.

Many of those projects have residential densities close to, or higher than the residential densities of tower schemes in suburban municipalities. They just take a form that you don't seem to approve of.

There are also schemes south of 59th Avenue that were allowed for rezoning under the Marpole Plan, that I haven't counted. There are four and six storey buildings there that are adding over 1,000 more units.

All these policies and plans and major site rezonings are why housing starts in the City of Vancouver are more than in any other municipality for every one of the past ten years. You notice the big towers in concentrated sites in Burnaby, or Coquitlam, but the growth in Vancouver, and along the Cambie Corridor is in many more smaller projects that added together are a big change, and significantly more density. Single rancher bungalows are being redeveloped as 29 apartments - and not just studios and one-bedroom, represent a more subtle form of densification, but it's one that has been acceptable (reluctantly initially) in a series of west side neighbourhoods. In my book, that's an achievement, and much more difficulty than redeveloping retail parking lots or car dealerships.

Migrant_Coconut · #**916** Posted **Jun 28, 2019, 8:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Changing City

No - read what I wrote again. All 3,100 units are in 4 storey, 6 storey (and 8-storey projects) along the Cambie Corridor. So are the 950 units in submitted applications.

Oakridge will add another 2,900 units. Pearson adds another 2,170. The YMCA adds another 228 units. The Jewish Community Centre adds another 299 units. Langara Gardens hasn't been submitted yet, but there's an approved policy framework (in 2018) to develop about 2,500 additional units. Similarly the Transit Centre has an approved framework to add about 1,500 units, but no rezoning has been submitted yet.

Many of those projects have residential densities close to, or higher than the residential densities of tower schemes in suburban municipalities. They just take a form that you don't seem to approve of.

There are also schemes south of 59th Avenue that were allowed for rezoning under the Marpole Plan, that I haven't counted. There are four and six storey buildings there that are adding over 1,000 more units.

All these policies and plans and major site rezonings are why housing starts in the City of Vancouver are more than in any other municipality for every one of the past ten years. You notice the big towers in concentrated sites in Burnaby, or Coquitlam, but the growth in Vancouver, and along the Cambie Corridor is in many more smaller projects that added together are a big change, and significantly more density. Single rancher bungalows are being redeveloped as 29 apartments - and not just studios and one-bedroom, represent a more subtle form of densification, but it's one that has been acceptable (reluctantly initially) in a series of west side neighbourhoods. In my book, that's an achievement, and much more difficulty than redeveloping retail parking lots or car dealerships.

Hell, that's the entire capacity of Metrotown between King Ed and Marine, and there's still another two-thirds of the plan to go after that. Not bad.

officedweller · #**917** Posted **Jun 28, 2019, 9:34 PM**

Onni's next towers at Pearson Dogwood:

Three 'sculpted' towers coming to the corner of Cambie and 57th Avenue
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/500-west-57th-avenue-vancouver-pearson-dogwood-june-2019

Artistic rendering of 500 West 57th Avenue, Vancouver, the Pearson Dogwood redevelopment. (IBI Group / Pearson Dogwood)
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/500-west-57th-avenue-vancouver-pearson-dogwood-june-2019

Feathered Friend · #**918** Posted **Jun 28, 2019, 10:21 PM**

I just got word of a trio of 10 - 22 floor buildings. I'll post more details on Tuesday, but if you're interested in going to the pre-app open house, I would set aside your Thursday night.

whatnext · #**919** Posted **Jun 28, 2019, 10:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vin

Doesn't matter what phase it is. The fact is that they suddenly upzoned Oakridge's Town Centre from short-mid-rise to tall in a matter of two years. Perhaps many developers submitting projects for the shorter buildings must be rethinking their decisions now. Such mixed signals make the whole process of creating a proper town centre extremely slow. Along 41st directly across Oakridge Centre, a couple of short lower-density structures WITHOUT any commercial space had already been erected. Those include a senior's centre if I am not wrong, as well as a low apartment building at the former Lutheran church site. What kind of town centre is this? Bad planning all around.

Perhaps a town centre like this, recognized widely in Urban Planning circles:

[IMG]

hafencity by whatnextyvr, on Flickr[/IMG]
HafenCity in Hamurg, credit: https://www.academyofurbanism.org.uk/

The sucessful definition of a town centre is some dismal, soulless highrise wasteland so commonly found in authoritarian countries.

whatnext · #**920** Posted **Jul 2, 2019, 7:50 PM**

Noticed the other day that the old Flamingo restaurant site that Vivagrand bailed out on now has Coromandel hoarding up around it. I wonder what they paid for it?