The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Beedok

I do ride the bus every day in Ottawa. So unless TTC drivers are massively worse than OC transpo drivers (which would amaze me) I'll take a bus with the same infrastructure over a streetcar any day.

You would be in the minority.

[Nouvellecosse]

Yeah my time in a streetcar was certainly more enjoyable than a bus

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Beedok

Even the busiest stations outside downtown work fine, but the mixed traffic flow downtown grinds everything to a halt.

No... in the last years of their existence, stations like Tunney's Pasture and Hurdman were shitshows with insane platform crowding and very slow movement of buses. Getting through Hurdman would often take a full two minutes at rush hour, between waiting for the stop signs at either end of the station, driving around the loop to the bus' designated platform (sometimes waiting in the queue because there was no room left), and dealing with drivers who stopped too many times to keep letting "runners" on board the bus even after the bus left the stop.

Originally Posted by Beedok

The transitway probably has higher capacity than the new O-Train they're building

Technically true, but at a much higher cost per passenger. The city will save $15 million every year in operating costs from the BRT->LRT conversion, and that gap would have only gotten bigger if the city had continued with BRT-only.

That's a key factor that's often missing when people argue in favour of BRT over LRT due to "cost". BRT is cheaper to build but more expensive to run at higher passenger loads.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

You would be in the minority.

Good taste often is.

[WhipperSnapper]

True but, it also applies to torturing oneself.

[caltrane74]

He likes bus transit, nothing we say, or any facts we present in favour of rail tranait will not change his mind.

[GlassCity]

To be fair, there are no facts being presented. The main argument is that rail transit is more comfortable to ride, which is subjective. I suspect that most people would agree with you, and rial bias is something we are still having trouble shaking. But even with that, a conversation needs to be had on whether the significantly higher capital requirements that rail infrastructure requires is better spent there than on expanding the frequency and reach of bus service.

[caltrane74]

Downtown Toronto would be a disaster if buses were running on the streetcar routes.

The King Streetcar carries 60,000 people a day basically between the Don Valley and Exhibition.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Downtown Toronto would be a disaster if buses were running on the streetcar routes.

The King Streetcar carries 60,000 people a day basically between the Don Valley and Exhibition.

buses are crap compared to LRT or Tramway. In Montréal for example, there are more than 900 buses that cross the Champlain bridge to go downtown. 900, lol the REM will take care of them.

[caltrane74]

Thank you. I can't see how any sane person would favour buses over rail transit in the downtown core of a heavily congested city, where stops are sometimes located just 150 meters from each other.

Yes, I know the short distance stops are being eliminated because the new streetcars are so damn long one end would be at one stop the other end at the second.

[nname]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Downtown Toronto would be a disaster if buses were running on the streetcar routes.

The King Streetcar carries 60,000 people a day basically between the Don Valley and Exhibition.

That's actually been done in Vancouver - Local and express bus on Broadway combined to carry 80000 - 100000 passengers a day..

Disaster or not, those buses still managed to carry that many riders across the city with no transit priority and few dedicated ROW on peak hours only

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

buses are crap compared to LRT or Tramway. In Montréal for example, there are more than 900 buses that cross the Champlain bridge to go downtown. 900, lol the REM will take care of them.

Yes, but many cities still continue to build BRT. Including Montreal in the Pie-IX corridor.

Ottawa was or is an example of pretty decent BRT, not of world-beating BRT. For the latter you have to go to other places like Curitiba in Brazil.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yes, but many cities still continue to build BRT. Including Montreal in the Pie-IX corridor.

Ottawa was or is an example of pretty decent BRT, not of world-beating BRT. For the latter you have to go to other places like Curitiba in Brazil.

the Pie-IX BRT corridor is being reconsidered.

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by nname

That's actually been done in Vancouver - Local and express bus on Broadway combined to carry 80000 - 100000 passengers a day..

Disaster or not, those buses still managed to carry that many riders across the city with no transit priority and few dedicated ROW on peak hours only

Moving 100,000 people a day on a single downtown street by bus seems like a very expensive proposition, but hey..whatever works. Just to let you know it will never happen in Toronto. If we ever do get rid of the King Streetcar, it won't be for a bus, it will be for a subway.

[nname]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Moving 100,000 people a day on a single downtown street by bus seems like a very expensive proposition

... and some people just don't seems to understand this... and claim that upgrade for the corridor is "a waste of money" as the corridor already enjoys "good service"

[Innsertnamehere]

Meanwhile that same corridor in Vancouver has many asking for a subway to replace it (and there are plans to do so) since the service is substandard. Just because it is done does not mean it is desirable.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Meanwhile that same corridor in Vancouver has many asking for a subway to replace it (and there are plans to do so) since the service is substandard. Just because it is done does not mean it is desirable.

Yes, but the request is for a subway, not a streetcar. Nobody's arguing for buses over rail, but buses over buses on rails. It's great that Toronto already has streetcars, but for cities without them "upgrading" from buses to streetcars is just a huge capital expenditure while providing no real transportation improvement. The fact is that buses can easily carry as many people as streetcars can and at the same speed. Your argument about Broadway would still be just as true if it were streetcars running on it instead of buses.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

the Pie-IX BRT corridor is being reconsidered.

I still can't fathom how expensive BRT is for such low level improvements. Hopefully Coderre will push for a REM line for that corridor.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

He likes bus transit, nothing we say, or any facts we present in favour of rail tranait will not change his mind.

Nah, the skytrain in Vancouver is quite nice. It's just streetcars I'm not sold on. They seem like an unneeded step between buses and full metro. (Minimal if any capacity increase, decreased flexibility in case of contsruction or accidents, the need for entirely different maintenance facilities vs. the rest of the fleet, etc.)

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by Beedok

Nah, the skytrain in Vancouver is quite nice. It's just streetcars I'm not sold on. They seem like an unneeded step between buses and full metro. (Minimal if any capacity increase, decreased flexibility in case of contsruction or accidents, the need for entirely different maintenance facilities vs. the rest of the fleet, etc.)

autonomous cars will become another transportation option.