The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[nephersir7]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

So it will be automated I'm guessing? Or at least, the braking will be. Platform screen doors are very hard to implement on manually driven trains because humans rarely have the braking precision needed to line them up just right.

Yes it will be. Pretty much all new metro/subway systems are fully automated nowadays.

Even if it weren't fully driverless, automated braking has been the norm for decades.

The Montreal Metro has had automatic braking system-wide since 1976. The only technical reason why it can't have platform screen doors yet is that the new Azur trains don't have the same door alignment.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by nephersir7

Yes it will be. Pretty much all new metro/subway systems are fully automated nowadays.

Even if it weren't fully driverless, automated braking has been the norm for decades.

The Montreal Metro has had automatic braking system-wide since 1976. The only technical reason why it can't have platform screen doors yet is that the new Azur trains don't have the same door alignment.

the Azur has been built so that you can appreciate the art and the visual aspect of each station. The windows are larger too. platform screen doors should be avoided at all costs in the Métro.

[WhipperSnapper]

At all costs ... couldn't have said it better

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

AMT to be dismantled, merged with other commuter agencies
Réseau transport métropolitain and Agence régionale de transport to replace at least a dozen regional agencies


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/a...d-with-other-commuter-agencies-1.3048932

With Translink being the transit operator in the Lower Mainland, and now Montreal doing this, will the GTA ever do it? Yes, there is Metrolinx, but it does not actually operate it.

[Beedok]

Took the 509 streetcar today, with one of the new trains. It felt almost slower than walking and was quite bumpy. Thought my previous experience was just the old trains being, well, old. Don't understand why anyone would prefer to ride a streetcar over a bus.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Beedok

Took the 509 streetcar today, with one of the new trains. It felt almost slower than walking and was quite bumpy. Thought my previous experience was just the old trains being, well, old. Don't understand why anyone would prefer to ride a streetcar over a bus.

The streetcars tend to actually run faster than the "replacement" busses on King brought in to deal with overcrowding issues. It's pretty common to have a streetcar catch up to the bus after a few stops - primarily because they are much slower to unload/load. No clue where the bumpy complaint comes from - on the days I have to take transit to work I can even stand without having to hold onto a pole. Again, not so much on the replacement bus which is an awful experience in all respects. I see people who will pass up getting on if a streetcar is close behind.

On a saturday morning the entire 509 route should be quite quick. The slow spots are usually between Bathurst and Yonge. Walking it would take well over an hour.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

With Translink being the transit operator in the Lower Mainland, and now Montreal doing this, will the GTA ever do it? Yes, there is Metrolinx, but it does not actually operate it.

The RTM will also manage some aspects of the Montreal, Longueuil and Laval transit authorities, though those organizations will continue to maintain some level of autonomy.

Sounds alot like Metrolinx.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by niwell

The streetcars tend to actually run faster than the "replacement" busses on King brought in to deal with overcrowding issues. It's pretty common to have a streetcar catch up to the bus after a few stops - primarily because they are much slower to unload/load. No clue where the bumpy complaint comes from - on the days I have to take transit to work I can even stand without having to hold onto a pole. Again, not so much on the replacement bus which is an awful experience in all respects. I see people who will pass up getting on if a streetcar is close behind.

On a saturday morning the entire 509 route should be quite quick. The slow spots are usually between Bathurst and Yonge. Walking it would take well over an hour.

Yet to ride a new streetcar however, buses are far jerkier than CLRVs and the narrowness of the vehicle and noise adds to the unpleasantness.

[caltrane74]

I don't understand why people outside of Toronto, say that streetcars are the same as buses. I guess they don't understand. The new streetcars especially are like mini-subways. Granted they don't go as fast they might even go at the same rate or slower than buses. I don't know how to explain it, but riding a streetcar is a very enjoyable and refined experience. Riding a bus, is just nasty.

Some people/cities don't deserve light rail transit, they should just have buses, because that's what they want.

[niwell]

Pretty much the only time I take TTC is when it's raining hard because I bike or walk otherwise. When it's raining the bus is particularly unpleasant, even though the old streetcars can tend to leak sometimes. I'll take standing on a crowded streetcar over sitting on the bus personally.

This is particularly true of the newer busses that meet disability requirements. The old GM fishbowls were actually a bit more comfortable.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by niwell

The streetcars tend to actually run faster than the "replacement" busses on King brought in to deal with overcrowding issues. It's pretty common to have a streetcar catch up to the bus after a few stops - primarily because they are much slower to unload/load.

For this reason alone I imagine the new streetcars are quite a bit faster than buses. That's one of the major disadvantages of buses--high dwell time.

The increased dwell time that came with higher ridership was arguably what killed the Ottawa Transitway.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

I don't understand why people outside of Toronto, say that streetcars are the same as buses. I guess they don't understand. The new streetcars especially are like mini-subways. Granted they don't go as fast they might even go at the same rate or slower than buses. I don't know how to explain it, but riding a streetcar is a very enjoyable and refined experience. Riding a bus, is just nasty.

Some people/cities don't deserve light rail transit, they should just have buses, because that's what they want.

I don't know, I've been hearing this for years, but when I went down to Portland and checked out their light rail, I did not feel any difference compared to a bus. It still shook around a ton and sometimes I'd even forget I wasn't on a bus. Really wasn't this magical experience that everyone talks about, but that's just me.

[caltrane74]

Its not you, you need to ride buses and streetcars everyday at least for a while, and then you'll understand why most people in Toronto dread riding buses.

[ssiguy]

You have to remember that the ride of the buses, regardless of age, is dependent on the shape of the road they are travelling on. Even the nicest of new buses are painful if the road is crappy which in many ways speaks more of the city's road system than it does of the bus. On new bus-only lanes which are maintained far better than the average road they run down, the ride is much more pleasant.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

The RTM will also manage some aspects of the Montreal, Longueuil and Laval transit authorities, though those organizations will continue to maintain some level of autonomy.

Sounds alot like Metrolinx.

Metrolinx isn't involved in the operation of municipal agencies at all. They run GO transit, UPx, operate PRESTO for the municipalities, and sometimes help out on municipal transit expansion planning (though not always). The day to day operation and running of the local transit agencies is completely separate from Metrolinx.

Agreed, the streetcars are far nicer than buses. New ones are a bit bumpier than the old streetcars since they don't have the 70's air ride suspension of the old ones, but it is generally pretty smooth still, and makes up for it with a far nicer interior and A/C. Buses are miserable compared to streetcars.

I'm a daily 504 commuter (well, I bike in the summers but when the weather is crappy or cold I TTC it) - and agree that probably half of riders will wait for a streetcar instead of taking a bus. I've only taken the bus maybe twice since they introduced them maybe 2 years ago, and only because I was in a real rush. I almost always wait for a streetcar.

[GreaterMontréal]

Metrolinx isn't involved in the operation of municipal agencies at all. They run GO transit, UPx, operate PRESTO for the municipalities, and sometimes help out on municipal transit expansion planning (though not always). The day to day operation and running of the local transit agencies is completely separate from Metrolinx.

in Montréal, all the municipal transit agencies (CIT) will be abolished, replaced by the RTM.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

I'm a daily 504 commuter (well, I bike in the summers but when the weather is crappy or cold I TTC it) - and agree that probably half of riders will wait for a streetcar instead of taking a bus. I've only taken the bus maybe twice since they introduced them maybe 2 years ago, and only because I was in a real rush. I almost always wait for a streetcar.

Taking the 504 on a regular basis and seeing the difference between streetcar and replacement bus is really eye opening. King would be a complete mess if the ridership of the 504 (and 509 now) had to be accommodated by bus. I believe it's up to over 60k passengers a day, which is more than some entire light rail systems in the U.S.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by niwell

The streetcars tend to actually run faster than the "replacement" busses on King brought in to deal with overcrowding issues. It's pretty common to have a streetcar catch up to the bus after a few stops - primarily because they are much slower to unload/load. No clue where the bumpy complaint comes from - on the days I have to take transit to work I can even stand without having to hold onto a pole. Again, not so much on the replacement bus which is an awful experience in all respects. I see people who will pass up getting on if a streetcar is close behind.

On a saturday morning the entire 509 route should be quite quick. The slow spots are usually between Bathurst and Yonge. Walking it would take well over an hour.

Buses frequently catch up to buses because the one in front is dealing with more passengers.
As for standing without a pole, you can do that on a bus half the time too.

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

For this reason alone I imagine the new streetcars are quite a bit faster than buses. That's one of the major disadvantages of buses--high dwell time.

The increased dwell time that came with higher ridership was arguably what killed the Ottawa Transitway.

No, what killed the Transitway is a greater version of what is starting to hurt the C-Train in Calgary, insufficient grade separation in the downtown (though Calgary did a better job of separating things it's still begining to be an issue from everything I've heard). Even the busiest stations outside downtown work fine, but the mixed traffic flow downtown grinds everything to a halt. The transitway probably has higher capacity than the new O-Train they're building (multi-lane BRT tends to sit at ~30kp/h, the new train is set for 26kp/h).

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Its not you, you need to ride buses and streetcars everyday at least for a while, and then you'll understand why most people in Toronto dread riding buses.

I do ride the bus every day in Ottawa. So unless TTC drivers are massively worse than OC transpo drivers (which would amaze me) I'll take a bus with the same infrastructure over a streetcar any day.

[GreaterMontréal]

insufficient grade separation in the downtown

why they chose not to.........

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by niwell

Pretty much the only time I take TTC is when it's raining hard because I bike or walk otherwise. When it's raining the bus is particularly unpleasant, even though the old streetcars can tend to leak sometimes. I'll take standing on a crowded streetcar over sitting on the bus personally.

This is particularly true of the newer busses that meet disability requirements. The old GM fishbowls were actually a bit more comfortable.

The entrance on the low floor buses is just horrible with a long narrow gap between the wheel well and driver's booth.