The Ugly Canada Thread

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by lio45

I think some areas of Northern Ontario actually do combine hunting/outdoors and 4x4 pickup trucks cultures with a tendency to vote left/NDP.

In Quebec that's the case as well in some regions (rural areas that vote left, for PQ/Bloc/Layton-Mulcair)

That is utterly bizarre to me but incredibly interesting. A definite outlier in North America.

Edit: wait, weren't Harper's Quebec seats all rural or suburban?

[WhipperSnapper]

Hunting in northern communities is probably more of a necessity than a choice to be more self reliant. There probably isn't much to do either. The economy isn't that great.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

That is utterly bizarre to me but incredibly interesting. A definite outlier in North America.

Edit: wait, weren't Harper's Quebec seats all rural or suburban?

Most of them were in the Quebec City area (the province's second biggest city). On average, Harper's seats were markedly more urban than most rural seats (which went mostly Bloc/NDP).

[lio45]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

That is utterly bizarre to me but incredibly interesting. A definite outlier in North America.

FYI, the very most urban areas of Quebec always vote center-right in both levels of government (they're locks for the PLQ and PLC).

[vid]

Originally Posted by lio45

I think some areas of Northern Ontario actually do combine hunting/outdoors and 4x4 pickup trucks cultures with a tendency to vote left/NDP.

In Quebec that's the case as well in some regions (rural areas that vote left, for PQ/Bloc/Layton-Mulcair)

Absolutely. It's a weird combination but it exists. One of the most left-wing people I know is an avid hunter and gun owner. Our former Green Party MP is a gun owner and hunter, and his NDP counterpart from the other local riding also supported removing the long gun registry.

Urban areas in Northern Ontario vote Liberal. The only Conservative strongholds in this region, outside of the Nipissing and Kenora regions (which are full of Conservatives from Toronto and Winnipeg, respectively) tend to be the parts of our cities or exurban fringes with a large number of business owners. And there aren't many of those.

Despite that, even our rural mayors are pretty socially progressive.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by vid

Absolutely. It's a weird combination but it exists. One of the most left-wing people I know is an avid hunter and gun owner. Our former Green Party MP is a gun owner and hunter, and his NDP counterpart from the other local riding also supported removing the long gun registry.

...

One could look at that whole philosophical combination as being a very selfish way to live, requiring more than ones share of resources, therefore unsustainable and incompatible with itself.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

I think some areas of Northern Ontario actually do combine hunting/outdoors and 4x4 pickup trucks cultures with a tendency to vote left/NDP.

In Quebec that's the case as well in some regions (rural areas that vote left, for PQ/Bloc/Layton-Mulcair)

It's actually the case of the vast majority of them in Quebec. Resource regions that are big on mining, hunting, fishing, and the corresponding activities like hunting, fishing, boating and snowmobiling, all vote to the left.

Those rural areas of Quebec that vote more conservatively are more agricultural than resource-based.

[esquire]

^ I think you nailed it... it's a northern thing. Northern Manitoba is obviously huge on hunting culture, trucks and what not, while also being generally safe NDP seats provincially and federally. I think the reality is that most people in the north fall into one or both najor cohorts that tend to support the NDP, being unionized workers (miners or other natural resource workers, healthcare/education/social services), or indigenous people.

Conversely, rural Manitoba (i.e. the agricultural part that is neither northern or urban) is rock-solid Conservative.

[MonctonRad]

Farmers are land owners and hence psychologically are not much different than professionals and small business owners in their world view. It is not surprising they would be conservatives - they are rugged individualists.

Miners and lumberjacks on the other hand are employees (and not owners), and therefore tend to be used to "free" workplace benefits and UIC. As such, they naturally would be left wingers - "make the rich pay".

This sort of dichotomy is more important than rural/urban lifestyle in determining political affiliation.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Farmers are land owners and hence psychologically are not much different than professionals and small business owners in their world view. It is not surprising they would be conservatives - they are rugged individualists.

Miners and lumberjacks on the other hand are employees (and not owners), and therefore tend to be used to "free" workplace benefits and UIC. As such, they naturally would be left wingers - "make the rich pay".

This sort of dichotomy is more important than rural/urban lifestyle in determining political affiliation.

Here I thought it was just whether or not they had beards and owned cammo upholstered sofas.

[Proof Sheet]

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/04...med-to-make-room-for-all-road-users.html

And just down the road from the infamous

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeydale_Mall

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by lio45

FYI, the very most urban areas of Quebec always vote center-right in both levels of government (they're locks for the PLQ and PLC).

Same here as well, especially federally. It's very rare for the federal Liberals to not sweep rural Newfoundland, often with more than 75% of the vote. Even in 1958, the largest victory for any party in Canadian history (Progressive Conservatives won), rural Newfoundland still sent all Liberals.

St. John's tended toward Progressive Conservative but the merger with social conservatives and Harper probably killed that for a generation. These days St. John's has been voting NDP (with St. John's East split evenly between the NDP and Liberals and either capable of taking it without any big reason why it wasn't the other).

Provincially a similar dynamic holds but it's less rigid. There's no real ideological difference between our provincial parties. A clearly Conservative or Liberal position elsewhere is probably held by both or neither of the provincial parties. So the parties tend to rule for long stretches with no real threat to their power until voters get sick of them and switch to the other for a change.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by lio45

I think some areas of Northern Ontario actually do combine hunting/outdoors and 4x4 pickup trucks cultures with a tendency to vote left/NDP.

In Quebec that's the case as well in some regions (rural areas that vote left, for PQ/Bloc/Layton-Mulcair)

Timmins is a good example of a place that has many people who hunt, fish, snowmobile and have 4x4 pickups and they mainly vote NDP. Even more so for most of rural Northern Ontario. And it's not because of labour unions. Many here see government as part of the solution and not just a problem.

In Quebec, you'll find the many of the same types of people in the Abitibi-Temiscamingue region (Rouyn-Noranda, La Sarre, Amos, Val-D'Or, etc), James Bay region and elsewhere.

[vid]

Originally Posted by Architype

One could look at that whole philosophical combination as being a very selfish way to live, requiring more than ones share of resources, therefore unsustainable and incompatible with itself.

That's essentially the definition of Northern Ontario! I literally got into an argument the other day on the local CBC's Facebook page about development in rural areas here. The guy said that the ideal growth pattern for Northern Ontario would be 2,000,000 people spread evenly across it on lots no smaller than 4 acres. He didn't believe cities should exist. (Conservative voter.)

Even if you look at our private sector jobs, they're all heavily dependent on federal policies. Bombardier is our current largest private sector employer but that company makes most of its money off of government contracts. The grain elevators are largely supported by federal grain policies (most were built by crown corporations) and they're supplied by railways (built by the government). Outside of those areas most of our well paying jobs are government based (health care, education). Simply providing services to people and doing the things that make cities run is a big part of actually making our cities run. The fact that we pay people to pick up garbage puts several million dollars into the local economy every year, even though those dollars are going back into it to pick up garbage, it's like a mobius strip.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's actually the case of the vast majority of them in Quebec. Resource regions that are big on mining, hunting, fishing, and the corresponding activities like hunting, fishing, boating and snowmobiling, all vote to the left.

Those rural areas of Quebec that vote more conservatively are more agricultural than resource-based.

For Canada:
I sometimes call it the "Boreal Belt" that stretches across Canada. (areas within the Boreal forest zone) Much of it is left-wing.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Same here as well, especially federally. It's very rare for the federal Liberals to not sweep rural Newfoundland, often with more than 75% of the vote.

It's kind of amusing to note that two areas that are such polar opposites on the urbanity spectrum as deep rural Newfoundland and the very heart of Montreal are both guaranteed locks for a housecat or potted plant in a federal election for the exact same party.

Normally, in politics, the main divide is supposed to be urban/rural...

[vid]

Originally Posted by lio45

It's kind of amusing to note that two areas that are such polar opposites on the urbanity spectrum as deep rural Newfoundland and the very heart of Montreal are both guaranteed locks for a housecat or potted plant in a federal election for the exact same party.

Normally, in politics, the main divide is supposed to be urban/rural...

Look at the income levels though.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by vid

Look at the income levels though.

Same thing - places like Westmount/Outremont/Mount Royal are at the opposite end of the spectrum compared to isolated Newfie outports. In fact it's hard to see anything else they actually share than that blind loyalty to the red mailbox on the ballot in federal elections.

[vid]

Liberal means something different to rural Newfoundlanders than it does to Quebeckers, but in both cases, what it means is something they identify with.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by vid

Liberal means something different to rural Newfoundlanders than it does to Quebeckers, but in both cases, what it means is something they identify with.

It's just strange, in an amusing way, that's all.

Imagine that there's this rich neighborhood of San Francisco, and this gun-loving bible-thumping area of rural Texas, that both always automatically voted together for the exact same thing in a landslide in U.S. federal politics year after year and decade after decade; wouldn't that strike you as amusing/weird?

It's really not something you see often.