Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[Ridgerunner]

Originally Posted by cjones2451

Passed a line up of 5 dump trucks there this morning

The softer the soil, the faster the TBM can advance in any 24 hour period. Hence, more spoil, and more trucks to cart it away.

So, the softer the soil the better, from one point of view.

But you have a potential problem here, if the soil is too soft (meaning not bound together - such as a sand lens), then the cutter head is swamped with material falling into the void created by the TBM. This creates a void above the cutting area, which leads to displacement on the surface if there is no intervening firmer layer above it all that can support itself.

So the current rate of spoil generation (and there is a lot, I have been watching the pics) is great from an advance rate point of view.

They are cutting soft material and moving fast. Let us all hope that the material stays "just right" ... meaning not too soft (no voids) and not too hard (fast advance).

None of us want another stumble into material that is too soft and void prone ... or we will get yet another 7 month delay for "planned maintenance".

[Vantage]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

Nice to have another SSPer in the area.

I'm here in Coquitlam by Coquitlam Centre. I don't usually post much here, just lurk most days!

[Kwik-E-Mart]

Originally Posted by nname

Found something interesting on page 19 of this RFP:

First of all, the Coquitlam facility is now officially the "Vehicle Inspection Facility" instead of just vehicle storage.

Here's a small video I made on the stretch between Ioco and Coquitlam Central today (September 24) during my ride home on the WCE:

• Video Link

(Created under the Creative Commons Attribution License. Other media members may reuse this video, but please give credit to those who spent their efforts, regardless of how large or small, in recording, converting, and uploading videos like this one.)

At roughly 1:00-1:05 you can see the bridge across other tracks that is otherwise seen in vehicle maintenance centres. Is it safe to say that the Coquitlam facility is a mini version of the Edmonds OMC but with lesser functions?

[Ridgerunner]

So ... there i was, minding my own business, and watching the photos on the site about the TBM portal.

A few days ago, the TBM fired up and shoved spoil into the pit with great dedication.

but I noticed that about 48 hours ago, that the spoils stopped. I was all set for another announcement of "planned maintenance". (small bit of humour here)

This morning the spoils started again and for all of today have been proceeding apace.

Kind of gets you to believe that EGRT are watching this forum and are screwing with us ... start ... stop ,,, start ... stop.

Not serious here, just having fun.

[Ridgerunner]

The TBM seems to start and stop every 24 to 26 hours.

This morning, in the space of 4 to 5 hours, it seems that about 20 trucks plus the pup, went and got spoils.

You know what would an interesting calculation ... how many trucks for each measure of TBM progress.

in other words, what does the TBM spit out in spoil for each unit of measure. An easy way to calculate actual progress (opposed to Translink EGRT propaganda) is to just count the truck.

A ten meter tunnel has an area of about 80 meters (r squared times pie). So for each meter of advance that means 80 cubic meters of spoil. (the engineers on this thread will fix up my "milkmaid" calculations, no doubt.

If a truck can carry 15 metric tons (and a pup carries half that), you have 22 tons per truck/pup load.

At 1.5 tons per cubic meter (that is a calc from my gravel pit days) you have 120 tons per meter of advance.

So you need 6 truck/pup units to carry off the spoil for every meter.

20 trucks so far today (and more coming, we all hope, that means 3 meters of advance just this morning.

not bad. Maybe all that "planned maintenance" was worthwhile after all.

PS : No insult to me if an actual engineer can fix up my numbers with real ones.

[Waders]

The provincial government confirmed tunnel boring work has resumed.

“The tunnel boring machine stopped at Seaview and Clarke in mid-March for regular maintenance and encountered some challenging ground conditions which delayed the progress,” Sonia Lowe, a spokesperson with the Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure, told Vancity Buzz. “The machine operation has resumed and is continuing to make progress.”

Source: Vancitybuzz

[SOSS]

Does anyone know if all the concrete tunnel wall segments are staged in PoMo? If so, it would be easy to measure progress via their disappearance rate...

[red-paladin]

Originally Posted by SOSS

Does anyone know if all the concrete tunnel wall segments are staged in PoMo? If so, it would be easy to measure progress via their disappearance rate...

There is a big yard of them in stacks, but I don't know how often they bring in new ones.

[Jimbo604]

You can watch the dump trucks lining up to take away the dirt from current drilling with the web cam link below. Only one more scheduled stop (@ Robinson St) and then onto completion!

http://wcs.pbaeng.com/projects/R1_Transit

500 metres from Seaview Dr to Robinson St, so at 10 metres a day, 7 days a week starting on Sept 21st puts arrival around....... Nov 9th ??

[CanSpice]

Should we have a betting pool on when the next sinkhole appears?

[Ridgerunner]

Originally Posted by Jimbo604

You can watch the dump trucks lining up to take away the dirt from current drilling with the web cam link below. Only one more scheduled stop (@ Robinson St) and then onto completion!

http://wcs.pbaeng.com/projects/R1_Transit

500 metres from Seaview Dr to Robinson St, so at 10 metres a day, 7 days a week starting on Sept 21st puts arrival around....... Nov 9th ??

If there are no sinkholes - requiring another 7 months for "planned maintenance", Nov 7 seems like a good bet.

After they change the cutters - if they have to change the cutters - it is only 400 meters to breakout.

With a reasonable time to change the cutting heads, breakout could happen before Jan 1... 40 days of additional tunneling at 10 meters per day.

The joker in this deck if, of course, sinkholes requiring months of "planned maintenance". Every sinkhole seems to need about three months of "pm".

[red-paladin]

As they are at the top of the hill and further away from Burnaby Mountain, one would think the subsurface would be less problematic, though still layered diagonally as it's glacial till?

[Olden Retreiver]

Originally Posted by Ridgerunner

The TBM seems to start and stop every 24 to 26 hours.

This morning, in the space of 4 to 5 hours, it seems that about 20 trucks plus the pup, went and got spoils.

You know what would an interesting calculation ... how many trucks for each measure of TBM progress.

in other words, what does the TBM spit out in spoil for each unit of measure. An easy way to calculate actual progress (opposed to Translink EGRT propaganda) is to just count the truck.

A ten meter tunnel has an area of about 80 meters (r squared times pie). So for each meter of advance that means 80 cubic meters of spoil. (the engineers on this thread will fix up my "milkmaid" calculations, no doubt.

If a truck can carry 15 metric tons (and a pup carries half that), you have 22 tons per truck/pup load.

At 1.5 tons per cubic meter (that is a calc from my gravel pit days) you have 120 tons per meter of advance.

So you need 6 truck/pup units to carry off the spoil for every meter.

20 trucks so far today (and more coming, we all hope, that means 3 meters of advance just this morning.

not bad. Maybe all that "planned maintenance" was worthwhile after all.

PS : No insult to me if an actual engineer can fix up my numbers with real ones.

Those numbers seem ball-park reasonable; I wonder if maybe a truck-pup combo hauls more than 22 tons?

If I remember correctly, the net progress of the tunnel was supposed to be 8 metres per day; the TBM can probably go (not continuously) at 10 m per day.

80 cubic metres per day is ~1200 tons per day.

At 25 tons per truck, that's 48 trucks per 24 hour day.

I don't know if the truck loads are evenly spaced around the clock, but if we see more than 2 or 3 trucks per hour for any extended length of time, that could actually signal that the TBM is over-excavating, which is a very, very bad thing.

One would hope EGRT is measuring the spoils far more accurately than we are able to do, and that they are carefully reconciling it with meterage advance, in as close to a real-time calculation as possible. If they are not doing this, it will be a potentially far worse mistake than their decision to ignore the recommendations/requirements for pre-installing ground improvement & supports at the TBM maintenance stations.

[Olden Retreiver]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

As they are at the top of the hill and further away from Burnaby Mountain, one would think the subsurface would be less problematic, though still layered diagonally as it's glacial till?

After the 3rd sinkhole (the first of 2 at Seaview,) Amanda Farrell, the Evergreen Line project director, said that the ground conditions were expected to improve as they moved south:

http://www.tricitynews.com/news/update-t...sult-of-evergreen-construction-1.1939420

But, to me, that statement doesn't correspond to the HUGE effort and resources they have poured into the Seaview and Robinson maintenance stations.

[Ridgerunner]

Originally Posted by Olden Retreiver

Those numbers seem ball-park reasonable; I wonder if maybe a truck-pup combo hauls more than 22 tons?

If I remember correctly, the net progress of the tunnel was supposed to be 8 metres per day; the TBM can probably go (not continuously) at 10 m per day.

80 cubic metres per day is ~1200 tons per day.

At 25 tons per truck, that's 48 trucks per 24 hour day.

I don't know if the truck loads are evenly spaced around the clock, but if we see more than 2 or 3 trucks per hour for any extended length of time, that could actually signal that the TBM is over-excavating, which is a very, very bad thing.

One would hope EGRT is measuring the spoils far more accurately than we are able to do, and that they are carefully reconciling it with meterage advance, in as close to a real-time calculation as possible. If they are not doing this, it will be a potentially far worse mistake than their decision to ignore the recommendations/requirements for pre-installing ground improvement & supports at the TBM maintenance stations.

The weight of a cibc yard of gravel is 1.5 tons, more or less. So ... 80 cubic meters of spoil, meaning one meter of advance is 120 tons, not 1,200 tons.

At 25 tons per truck/pup that is 5 units per meter , not 50.

They seem to have 20 to 30 truck units per day, at least. That would mean 5 to 6 meters of advance per day. There is a big lineup at 6am so that the spoils from the night can be cleared, and then a steady stream all day of units to keep the spoil pit clear until they close the gates at 8 or 9 pm.

The TBM is running 24/7 so that at 6 am, there is a fair pile to move.

Noise restrictions on machinery, no doubt, keep the clearing to 6am to 8 pm.

[Olden Retreiver]

Originally Posted by Ridgerunner

The weight of a cibc yard of gravel is 1.5 tons, more or less. So ... 80 cubic meters of spoil, meaning one meter of advance is 120 tons, not 1,200 tons.

At 25 tons per truck/pup that is 5 units per meter , not 50.

They seem to have 20 to 30 truck units per day, at least. That would mean 5 to 6 meters of advance per day. There is a big lineup at 6am so that the spoils from the night can be cleared, and then a steady stream all day of units to keep the spoil pit clear until they close the gates at 8 or 9 pm.

The TBM is running 24/7 so that at 6 am, there is a fair pile to move.

Noise restrictions on machinery, no doubt, keep the clearing to 6am to 8 pm.

Oops - that makes sense. I did the math in my head while riding the bus. But there sure looks like way more than 20 trucks per day - I can barely look across St Johns street at any time of day without seeing one going east and an empty returning westbound.

[Ridgerunner]

Originally Posted by Olden Retreiver

Oops - that makes sense. I did the math in my head while riding the bus. But there sure looks like way more than 20 trucks per day - I can barely look across St Johns street at any time of day without seeing one going east and an empty returning westbound.

Just for fun, I downloaded 40 pictures of the south camera at the TBM site.
There seems to be a different truck unit (truck plus pup) for every 15 minute interval .. all day long.

Discount the first 2 hours because the long line of trucks are catching up with the overnight accumulation of spoil. I mean to start counting at 9 am or 10 am.

At 25 tons per unit that seems to be 100 tons an hour or almost enough for a meter of advance all through the day.

but even half that ... 1/2 meter advance per hour during the day works out at 12 meters per 24 hour period. I did not know the old rust bucket could move that fast.

Anyway, the TBM is moving and we might get a complete rapid rail to Coquitlam after all.

[nname]

Current location of the TBM

So the TBM have been progressed about 150m since the restart and is about to leave Port Moody and enter Coquitlam. Its about 1/3 of the way to the next planned maintenance point

[Ridgerunner]

Originally Posted by nname

Current location of the TBM

So the TBM have been progressed about 150m since the restart and is about to leave Port Moody and enter Coquitlam. Its about 1/3 of the way to the next planned maintenance point

The spot indicated on the update shows 150 meters of progress, more or less.

As long as the indicated spot is right, then the TBM has moved about 15 meters a day, over the last ten days.

At that pace it hits the next stop in 20 days.

Not bad, if it is true. The spot indicated was approximate (and so is Google ruler) but anyway ... good show so far, if it is real.

[Mac Write]

At this rate when will breakout complete and then when will the tunnel be ready for trains and finally what opening date are we looking at?