Metro Phoenix Transit/Transportation Developments

[azliam]

Originally Posted by xymox

My god, the Utah Saints...haven't thought of them in ages...

As for shows that skip PHX and hit Tucson - they tend to be more alternative/electronic in nature. PHX still pulls (some) of the big EDM acts (but Royksopp did 2x shows in LA instead of one here - yet they did SLC?). Last year I went down to the Rialto to see Ministry with Front Line Assembly and Gary Numan (a hell of a show). There are other similar shows that wind up down there but not here.

Not sure what it is - but seems like 5M+ people here can draw enough people to fill a small venue for these acts - or even a decent sized one (i.e. Royksopp, Depeche Mode, etc). Maybe we don't have enough venues? I mean SLC is 2m people and drawing these acts...

Would have loved to see Royksopp. I think it boils down to venue availability and timing with certain tours. Disappointing. I feel the same way about DM skipping Phoenix. They literally started their tour in March 2023 in CA, then hit Vegas. Later in Nov. and then Dec., hit Denver, SLC, hit west coast again, Vegas again, then wrapped up North American leg in Southern CA again (2 shows in San Diego, 2 in Inglewood, and 2 in LA). Where there no venues to tack on a PHX date at the end? Lame...

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by TllrSkyline-01

I missed that announcement. Thankful this is getting done...there are also delays on EB 101 back to Cave Creek on the weekends...this will help!

Yeah, I know what’s going on out there. We saw it all the time. Too much traffic on Loop 101 EB and WB, too. I’m aware of that. We always go back home on SR-51 NB to Black Mountain Blvd.

[builder03]

Anything but a train...

https://azdot.gov/north-south-corridor-sr-505-proposed-new-transportation-route-pinal-county



Only a matter of time before Phoenix and Tucson merge?

[somethingfast]

Originally Posted by builder03

Only a matter of time before Phoenix and Tucson merge?

Maybe...but only if the state doesn't foolishly hand over all the water to billionaire data center owners. I really, really hope our intrepid leaders are considering the long-term effects of data center water consumption and aren't mortgaging our future for a quick buck.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by builder03

Anything but a train...

https://azdot.gov/north-south-corridor-sr-505-proposed-new-transportation-route-pinal-county



Only a matter of time before Phoenix and Tucson merge?

ADOT is still proceeding with a passenger rail study. Securing funding in the current political climate will be the main challenge. I doubt the Phoenix and Tucson metro areas will every fully merge due to Gila River and Ak-Chin Indian communities lying between them.

Originally Posted by somethingfast

Maybe...but only if the state doesn't foolishly hand over all the water to billionaire data center owners. I really, really hope our intrepid leaders are considering the long-term effects of data center water consumption and aren't mortgaging our future for a quick buck.

Tucson just said no to a data center. Water was a major reason for the city's decision.

https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/ne...ject-blue-data-center-campus-in-arizona/

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by builder03

Anything but a train...

https://azdot.gov/north-south-corridor-sr-505-proposed-new-transportation-route-pinal-county



Only a matter of time before Phoenix and Tucson merge?

I've been hearing about Phoenix and Tucson merging for 30 years. Is New York and Philly the same city? So yes and no, as Eloy, Casa Grande and Florence build out you ill see something closer to unbroken urban development from Nogales to Prescott Id guess but there will be gaps due to preserves and reservations an its going to take a lot longer than people think. Like decades and decades.

IN the meantime the Train is still in progress but the north south highway has been planned for just as long and is still needed

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Tucson just said no to a data center. Water was a major reason for the city's decision.

https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/ne...ject-blue-data-center-campus-in-arizona/

As always the water hawks focus on the wrong thing. Agg will always be the big water hog. Data Centers using water is such a red herring. Pecans and Summer wheat and feed corn and cabbage and alfalfa use water not data centers and not chips (on a relative Basis) not your lawn and trees.

and at least the data centers and manufacturing actively tries to reuse and recycle as much as possible.

IF you are concerned about water crackdown needs to come to the agriculture sector to be more efficient or transition to lower water plants. And actually we should encourage residents to plant as many shade trees, lawns and foilage as possible, as well as fountains and shade structures

There is a reason why the older lusher parts of central phoenix are 10-15 degrees cooler than the poorer and more barren parts.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by Obadno

As always the water hawks focus on the wrong thing. Agg will always be the big water hog. Data Centers using water is such a red herring. Pecans and Summer wheat and feed corn and cabbage and alfalfa use water not data centers and not chips (on a relative Basis) not your lawn and trees.

and at least the data centers and manufacturing actively tries to reuse and recycle as much as possible.

IF you are concerned about water crackdown needs to come to the agriculture sector to be more efficient or transition to lower water plants. And actually we should encourage residents to plant as many shade trees, lawns and foilage as possible, as well as fountains and shade structures

There is a reason why the older lusher parts of central phoenix are 10-15 degrees cooler than the poorer and more barren parts.

There's some value in that argument when it comes to Phoenix. The Salt River Valley has a rich heritage of agriculture made possible by irrigation, and Phoenix has a diverse water supply. Tucson, however, is different. That city has never been as irrigated or agricultural as Phoenix, and it's more dependent on Colorado River water. Tucson has always been more cautious than Phoenix about water, and for good reasons.

[somethingfast]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

There's some value in that argument when it comes to Phoenix. The Salt River Valley has a rich heritage of agriculture made possible by irrigation, and Phoenix has a diverse water supply. Tucson, however, is different. That city has never been as irrigated or agricultural as Phoenix, and it's more dependent on Colorado River water. Tucson has always been more cautious than Phoenix about water, and for good reasons.

Phoenix sits in a basin so Rocky Mountain runoff settles in the aquifers deep under Phoenix. Tucson's runoff actually gravitates toward Phoenix and Mexico. So, yes, Phoenix is in better shape overall. BUT....data centers produce tons of toxic water that are being dumped and potentially polluting groundwater. It's a serious issue and while data centers may not use as much water as agriculture (of course and *yet?*) it's a serious issue and we're just ignoring these issues it seems. I believe data centers need to pay a large premium for the use of hte water and they need to pay into a fund to dispose of it responsibly. All states should require this so data center builders (i.e., the mega rich) don't simply state shop. It's Washington's job to protect the people from this.

[TllrSkyline-01]

I do not know what type of date centers were being proposed in Tucson, but I have been working on a couple of these in Northern CA that are closed loop systems. They are hybrid, where they mix larger refrigerant-based units for the ambient building temperature, and then the closed loop system at the servers. They use no new water as the closed loop system recycles the existing water.

Not ALL data centers are bad. PLUS, you all love to be on your phones and computers all day sucking up data anyway...so chill on the evil of data centers!

[combusean]

The one in Tucson was net water positive (sort of like how the Meta project in mesa put money into water projects elsewhere in the state), but their idiotic city council listened to the hysterics instead and decided they were completely closed for business.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by TllrSkyline-01

I do not know what type of date centers were being proposed in Tucson, but I have been working on a couple of these in Northern CA that are closed loop systems. They are hybrid, where they mix larger refrigerant-based units for the ambient building temperature, and then the closed loop system at the servers. They use no new water as the closed loop system recycles the existing water.

Not ALL data centers are bad. PLUS, you all love to be on your phones and computers all day sucking up data anyway...so chill on the evil of data centers!

The one rejected by Tucson was definitely not closed loop:

Also in contention was the news that the site would use drinking water for its cooling systems for at least the first two years of operation until it could switch to using treated wastewater once a new water line was completed. That line would combine reclaimed water with treated, previously-contaminated water from a Superfund site.

[TllrSkyline-01]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

The one rejected by Tucson was definitely not closed loop:

Also in contention was the news that the site would use drinking water for its cooling systems for at least the first two years of operation until it could switch to using treated wastewater once a new water line was completed. That line would combine reclaimed water with treated, previously-contaminated water from a Superfund site.

Thanks for the clarification. Yes, the closed-loop systems cost more, and these companies were hoping AZ would give them a break.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by combusean

The one in Tucson was net water positive (sort of like how the Meta project in mesa put money into water projects elsewhere in the state), but their idiotic city council listened to the hysterics instead and decided they were completely closed for business.

Fore Example, TSMC has broken ground on their water treatment center today:

https://azbigmedia.com/business/tsmc-arizona-begins-construction-on-new-industrial-water-plant/

Most major data center projects come out the gate with the same thing.

Single data centers that are the size of a warehouse dont really use much water The sudden and extreme rise in anti-Data center movements reads to me as ludditsm and Nimbyism

[N830MH]

Gosh! Could be worse for Valley Metro drivers. They could go on strike.

https://www.azfamily.com/app/2025/09/17/...rivers-allege-unsafe-working-conditions/

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by N830MH

Gosh! Could be worse for Valley Metro drivers. They could go on strike.

https://www.azfamily.com/app/2025/09/17/...rivers-allege-unsafe-working-conditions/

Oh no think of the 10's of people who use it!

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by N830MH

Gosh! Could be worse for Valley Metro drivers. They could go on strike.

https://www.azfamily.com/app/2025/09/17/...rivers-allege-unsafe-working-conditions/

I thought this was going to be about interactions with unruly passengers, but it seems to be about seats. It's amazing to think those alone would motivate a strike. I wonder if there are other issues not reported here.

Originally Posted by Obadno

Oh no think of the 10's of people who use it!

With approximately 40 million bus and train boardings per year, even if we assume a lot of that is the same passengers using transit multiple times per day, that's still a lot of "10's."

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

I thought this was going to be about interactions with unruly passengers, but it seems to be about seats. It's amazing to think those alone would motivate a strike. I wonder if there are other issues not reported here.



With approximately 40 million bus and train boardings per year, even if we assume a lot of that is the same passengers using transit multiple times per day, that's still a lot of "10's."

Ph its just a joke

[TllrSkyline-01]

Originally Posted by N830MH

Gosh! Could be worse for Valley Metro drivers. They could go on strike.

https://www.azfamily.com/app/2025/09/17/...rivers-allege-unsafe-working-conditions/

30,000 passengers??? That's it???

80% of the busses I see are stopped at the bus stop with their flashers on and the drivers smoking outside.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by TllrSkyline-01

30,000 passengers??? That's it???

80% of the busses I see are stopped at the bus stop with their flashers on and the drivers smoking outside.

The 30,000 number is for light rail, so it has nothing do with your exaggerated observations about buses and their drivers. Keep in mind that we need extra capacity in those buses and trains to fit all your surplus question marks.