Winnipeg Construction X

[WinCitySparky]

It’s not complete shit, it’s more like incomplete shit

[WinCitySparky]

Also shit has corn in it, and corn is delicious, so if you “look for it”, yes sure there’s some gems in the loaf

[WinCitySparky]

Just kidding, sort of. I like it here but the city — and its continuing non-forward-thinking policies — is a fucking mess

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by WinCitySparky

Just kidding, sort of. I like it here but the city — and its continuing non-forward-thinking policies — is a fucking mess

Yea it’s really the decisions made by governments a century ago setting up the great bones in the city that’s holding it together.

God what I would do to have the level of forward thinking we had at the turn of the 20th century.

[WinCitySparky]

We can have it, but we need to vote in municipal decision-makers who actually have vision beyond their own careers. And since no one here ever votes in municipal elections in meaningful numbers, we will be stuck with the Eadies/Santoses/Browatys/Gilroys/Wyatts forever in perpetuity. Entrenched and useless beyond comprehension.

[sleepyeyed]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

Did you completely ignore postman’s post?

Here’s the thing, all of those cities you mentioned have sprawl just as bad if not worse then us. Thats why all those cities have LOWER population density then Winnipeg.

Regina and Saskatoon are more interesting, walkable cities lol what? Have you been outside the city centres of these places their suburbs are even worse then ours. At least Winnipeg has the common sense of having mid-highrise buildings on our arterials. These other cities don’t have the equivalent of St Anne’s where it’s kilometres of dense housing. Even if they do these other prairie city corridors don’t have the quantity of corridors or the long stretches that we see on Portage and Pembina.

I would challenge your statement on a few things. Winnipeg also has a more impressive canopy then any of the other prairie cities (not even a contest tbh), our parks like Forks, St. Vital, and Assiniboine are absolutely competitive with other prairie cities, but I will agree about the inner city communities (although Polo Park and Railside at Forks are inner city infill projects).

For bikes, yes Calgary and Edmonton have pretty good bike networks no doubt about that. But again your underselling Winnipeg’s bike network especially how well the suburban network can get you to the inner city. In Southwest Winnipeg I can get to DT in 30-40 mins with 90% of my trip being on a dedicated bike lane. Furthermore I can go perimeter to perimeter with 95% of my trip being on a separated bike lane. We have a good bike lane that’s needs a few tweaks, and with projects on Marion, Northwest Hydro Corridor, Archibald, Waverley, Provencher, River, Stradbrook, and St. Vital Bridge coming up the next few years just for a few examples there is clearly investment in our bike infrastructure. Like for me personally I’m a 5 minute bike ride from superstore, a 15 minute bike ride from campus, and even 15 minutes from Costco/Walmart. Could life really be any better for me as a cyclist? Maybe if I’m in the Netherlands lol.

Finally, the biggest advantage we have over these other prairie cities is that we don’t have freeways, our energy costs are much cheaper, and we emit lower emissions per capita simply by living in Winnipeg with renewable energy. Idk but if you look for it one realizes that this city isn’t just complete shit like we tell ourselves.

Having a bunch of low income people living in rooming houses and apartments on the verge of being burnt down/boarded up isn't the kind of density we should be celebrating. Plus most of that density is from 100 years ago.

Riverdale in Saskatoon has a better high street than anywhere in Winnipeg. Same with Broadway. Regina has 13th ave that has surpassed any high street in Winnipeg. Plus all those streets have high density housing all around them. Towers aren't the only form of density. There downtowns are far superior to Winnipegs in terms of available services, businesses, and attractiveness. Not every street is a highway.

Winnipeg's tree canopy has been neglected to the point that if those other cities haven't already surpassed it, they soon will. Walk around inner city Saskatoon and Regina sometime and see all the healthy elms and what they're doing to protect then. Edmonton is no contest, they're tree planting and maintenance is top class.

Most of the network you mentioned is for pleasure riding not transportation. The entire north side of the city doesn't even have bike infrastructure.

We maybe don't have complete freeways, but we have the neighborhood destruction associated with them (donald st bridge and disraeli) so we got the worst of both. Just because alberta and sask happen to have oil under them doesn't mean they should be guilty, Manitoba does the same with the oil it can access.. and hydro has multiple problems with it, especially the way its been implemented in Northern Manitoba.

[Labroco]

I believe the best solution would be RRC to acquiring the site and utilize the theatre as lecture halls.

I am surprised the vendor does not demolish to mitigate taxation on the depreciated asset. Perhaps it will be demolished as a term of sale. It’s not a designated building.

We own 44 Princess next door and thought about acquiring it but there is no utility in the building.

I see the site as a “ temporary” parking lot once it comes down. Calvery Temple will probably acquire it for parking… for ever…

Sorry folks…

[Luisito]

Originally Posted by sleepyeyed

The most confusing thing is how ok everyone is with how mediocore winnipeg? I travel the prairies a lot and Saskatoon and Regina are more interesting, walkable cities with better downtowns. Obviously CGY and Edm are years ahead, especially with their LRT and Edmontons low speed limit (40 max almost everywhere). They all have well maintained parks and trees and are investing in inner city communities. Most of them have new civic projects like librairies or are planning for them. Edmonton and Calgary have both invested tens of millions developing a connected cycling network.

.

Ummm No. That's pure nonsense. Winnipeg has it's issues that need to be worked on but to say Regina and Saskatoon are more interesting than Winnipeg is ludicrous.

We maybe don't have complete freeways, but we have the neighborhood destruction associated with them (donald st bridge and disraeli) so we got the worst of both. Just because alberta and sask happen to have oil under them doesn't mean they should be guilty, Manitoba does the same with the oil it can access.. and hydro has multiple problems with it, especially the way its been implemented in Northern Manitoba.

The disreali is basically a needed bridge that goes over the river and train tracks. How the hell did it cause neighborhood destruction? Same with the Donald street bridge. You are exaggerating big time.

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by sleepyeyed

Having a bunch of low income people living in rooming houses and apartments on the verge of being burnt down/boarded up isn't the kind of density we should be celebrating. Plus most of that density is from 100 years ago.

Riverdale in Saskatoon has a better high street than anywhere in Winnipeg. Same with Broadway. Regina has 13th ave that has surpassed any high street in Winnipeg. Plus all those streets have high density housing all around them. Towers aren't the only form of density. There downtowns are far superior to Winnipegs in terms of available services, businesses, and attractiveness. Not every street is a highway.

Winnipeg's tree canopy has been neglected to the point that if those other cities haven't already surpassed it, they soon will. Walk around inner city Saskatoon and Regina sometime and see all the healthy elms and what they're doing to protect then. Edmonton is no contest, they're tree planting and maintenance is top class.

Most of the network you mentioned is for pleasure riding not transportation. The entire north side of the city doesn't even have bike infrastructure.

We maybe don't have complete freeways, but we have the neighborhood destruction associated with them (donald st bridge and disraeli) so we got the worst of both. Just because alberta and sask happen to have oil under them doesn't mean they should be guilty, Manitoba does the same with the oil it can access.. and hydro has multiple problems with it, especially the way its been implemented in Northern Manitoba.

Most multi-family housing in the city was built in the 50s-70s. The Exchange District and St. Boniface are the main exceptions, but again those prairie cities don’t have a counterpart to Exchange or St. Boniface in terms of character or design.

For high streets I would say stretches of Corydon, Selkirk, Osborne, Donald/Princess more then match up with Riverdale and 13th Ave. We also have a lot more commercial streets with a urban fabric then both cities. The problem is all our commercial streets have some form of surface parking that ruins its chances to be a true high street.

What are these so called services that the Downtown of the other cities have that Winnipeg lacks beside retail btw? To say they’re far superior is a bit of a stretch especially considering most government buildings are located on Broadway in DT. Something that Saskatoon or Calgary can’t even offer.

In terms of tree maintenance, Winnipeg’s falling behind because it has much more tree cover then the other prairie cities which means more funding is necessary. Even so these other cities don’t have the beautiful mature trees akin to Crescentwood, Wildwood, or St. Boniface.

If we look at tree cover percentage Winnipeg has 17% compared to Edmonton at 10%, Saskatoon at 9%, and Calgary at 8%. Where your argument about trees fall short is that Winnipeg has the largest urban forest in Canada. Hell even I live next to a forest we really underrate how great or how many forests we have here.

Bike network is mostly pleasure riding but then again so are the other cities. Calgary is notorious for its recreational trails. That doesn’t mean we don’t have practical bike lanes. Garry St, Assiniboine/Wolseley, Waterfront, and Gateway are examples of bike lanes that serve primarily as transportation. I would even go far enough to say the Southwest Transitway serves as a great commuter route if you attend U of M and live south of Plaza Drive.

Yes destruction has occurred but still having such minimal freeway infrastructure has kept our inner city neighborhoods mostly intact and makes converting streets to be more pedestrian friendly less of a challenge.

Of course hydro has its own environmental concerns but compared to oil it’s not really comparable. And with all the new solar panel production talks here it looks like we’re trying for other alternatives to hydro. Manitoba in a sense is lucky because it has adequate conditions for all forms of renewable energy. And as a result we have cheaper and more sustainable energy than our neighbours.

If you want to get a different perspective and find some of the hidden gems in Winnipeg just let me know because I know most of them.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by Labroco

I believe the best solution would be RRC to acquiring the site and utilize the theatre as lecture halls.

I am surprised the vendor does not demolish to mitigate taxation on the depreciated asset. Perhaps it will be demolished as a term of sale. It’s not a designated building.

We own 44 Princess next door and thought about acquiring it but there is no utility in the building.

I see the site as a “ temporary” parking lot once it comes down. Calvery Temple will probably acquire it for parking… for ever…

Sorry folks…

Nah.

No building downtown can be demolished without an approved building permit in place for its replacement. This why we haven’t seen new parking lots other than the hydro switcheroo on Notre Dame, since the Katz era. If you could just demolish to evade taxes the zaifman’s, reise’s and others of the world would have done that long ago.

Parking lots in the downtown are a conditional use and must be approved by council. That will not happen.

It is actually more likely to be redeveloped than a parking lot because it doesn’t have the guaranteed revenue of a parking lot to overcome.

Red River College has stopped expanding in the downtown. They will not be buying or building anything new for a long time. Even if they were lecture halls that are several city blocks from their campus isn’t logical.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by post_man

I'm going to ignore Stantec's SHED boundaries but:

If you ignore the SHED then you are ignoring the whole point of my post... I was taking issue with the idea of the SHED, not downtown itself. The two are different concepts.

Originally Posted by sleepyeyed

The most confusing thing is how ok everyone is with how mediocore winnipeg? I travel the prairies a lot and Saskatoon and Regina are more interesting, walkable cities with better downtowns. Obviously CGY and Edm are years ahead, especially with their LRT and Edmontons low speed limit (40 max almost everywhere). They all have well maintained parks and trees and are investing in inner city communities. Most of them have new civic projects like librairies or are planning for them. Edmonton and Calgary have both invested tens of millions developing a connected cycling network.

You suburban slickers who love your car need to move to the boonies and leave the rest of us to build a functional city.

It was easier to swallow the idea of downtown Calgary and Edmonton being in better shape than downtown Winnipeg because of the prolonged boom that those provinces were in, with people and money flooding into those cities for decades. But I spent a few weekends in Saskatchewan last year, and it floored me that our "little cousins" now have downtowns that, while smaller than ours, are in much better shape. They don't have the dysfunction that ours have. You can still shop in their downtowns. You can't honestly say that about Winnipeg anymore. Regina and Saskatoon look like they're still trying. We look like we've given up.

However, I disagree with the idea that suburbanites need to "move to the boonies". That's what has put downtown Winnipeg into this situation in the first place. It has become a place that is, frankly, repulsive to a lot of suburbanites.

[Unbending]

Construction this fall.

[borkborkbork]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

Bike network is mostly pleasure riding but then again so are the other cities. Calgary is notorious for its recreational trails.

One of those "recreational trails", the Calgary Greenway, is 125km+ long and connects dozens of neighbourhoods including suburban neighbourhoods to the downtown.

I would say that the proportion of Calgarians who could ride a bike on separated/protected lanes from home to work is much, much higher than the proportion of Winnipeggers who could say the same.

[borkborkbork]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Nah.

No building downtown can be demolished without an approved building permit in place for its replacement.... Parking lots in the downtown are a conditional use and must be approved by council. That will not happen.

*cough* 98 albert

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Unbending

Construction this fall.

Is this going up next to the existing Civic Centre?

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

One of those "recreational trails", the Calgary Greenway, is 125km+ long and connects dozens of neighbourhoods including suburban neighbourhoods to the downtown.

I would say that the proportion of Calgarians who could ride a bike on separated/protected lanes from home to work is much, much higher than the proportion of Winnipeggers who could say the same.

That’s my point. Those recreational trails as they get more developed and have further density adjacent to them become legitimate commuter routes. So while a lot of routes today are predominantly recreational they can become viable transportation alternatives in the future.

And while Calgary has a more impressive network, Winnipeg can get a bigger bang for its buck because the city is a lot more compact. Right now the big challenge the city faces is fixing the gaps in the bike network, but once they’re filled in this city will have great cycling infrastructure.

[drew]

Originally Posted by esquire

Is this going up next to the existing Civic Centre?

They just finished a bunch of interior "refresh" work to the existing Civic Centre. I think it was closed all last year.

[Unbending]

Originally Posted by esquire

Is this going up next to the existing Civic Centre?

It looks like that is a new addition to the front of the building. There are some site plans on the webpage.

https://engage.winnipeg.ca/st-james-...tre-expansion/

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by Unbending

Construction this fall.

What a disaster! It's a travesty! Only in THIS rotten city! I've been to OTHER cities and THEIR civic centres are a MILLION times BETTER than OURS! We're SO PATHETIC!

Did I miss anything??

Yeah, I get it, "negative bias" is very real, and it's so often on display in forums such as this one. Winnipeg obviously does have very real social and economic issues to address, and from what I understand from construction professionals here there are some considerable barriers to getting things done.

HOWEVER, I think we need some perspective here. For all it's problems, Winnipeg still has a lot going for it, and change IS happening downtown, albeit not at the pace (instantly?) many here would like.

It's nice to visit other cities and see what they have to offer, but I suggest that the novelty of seeing another downtown vastly over-rates the experience compared to seeing one's own downtown year after year. IMO it's a classic case of familiarity breeding contempt. If one REALLY wants to experience what it's like to have the downtown of Regina or Saskatoon, I strongly feel they have to LIVE in Regina or Saskatoon for a few years and then get back to us. Maybe you'll love it, maybe the bloom will be off the rose, but fleeting impressions are hardly evidence of the superiority of other communities.

Being older than dirt, I view the changes in our downtown through the lens of several decades of living. I've seen many up-and-down cycles, and have experienced multiple disappointments as "proposed" projects have been announced and then faded away in the light of day. I'm distressed by some of the poverty I see, but encouraged by the new building that is happening. To me, the downtown has more interesting and exciting areas that it has ever had, and i feel more of a "big city buzz" in some of those areas than I have in the past (Okay, maybe it's just a stroke, but it's real to me!)

I know I will never see an end to the kvetching I read on this forum, as it's human nature to focus on the negative ("negative bias"-look it up!). That's why i try to offer a few positive comments about my home. Since it takes four or five positives to overcome a negative, I guess I'll have my work cut out for me.

Oh, and my first comments about the new civic centre were sarcasm. It looks really nice.

[wags_in_the_peg]

Originally Posted by Unbending

It looks like that is a new addition to the front of the building. There are some site plans on the webpage.

https://engage.winnipeg.ca/st-james-...tre-expansion/

very nice and a great addition to a very tired but quite active building. was at the hockey rink last Sunday and it was bustling with activity