Canada Line | Completed

[nname]

Originally Posted by mr.x

This is getting ridiculous....I've been a huge critic of the Canada Line's capacity, but I never thought capacity problems would emerge so early....days, not even years (2-3 years).

I'm not looking forward to September 7th at all.

I'm happy that it's popular, but not to the point where it become a victim of its own success.

Maybe they should start running at the regular service plan (3min between trains) starting September...

[squeezied]

on the bright side, I hope translink can use c-line's large ridership (along with evergreen line's added ridership) as an indication that the broadway corridor needs a high capacity system (m-line ext) instead of ltr.

[Chikinlittle]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

Isn't there a station/zone map right on the machine front (on top)?

Ron.

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

Yeah.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/syume/3835181940/

Not VERY noticeable, though. I didn't notice it while there, or in the photo and was all prepared to say "No..."

Sure, there's a map there, and there's a dotted line that I know means a difference in zone. But again, for somebody who doesn't know our system, which will be a lot of people arriving into the airport, and tourist using the system, it doesn't indicate anything about Zone 1 or Zone 2.


"2. YVR HAS TO DO a better job. I knew where to go to get from domestic arrivals to the station. A number of people asked me if I knew the way. The issue is the very small YVR signs. (which is normal at YVR and a complaint of mine about YVR for quite some time) and the almost total lack of advertising for the train."

Another note on that - in the arrivals area, there is a sign with a small universal 'train' symbol and it says Canada Line. Again, I know what that means, but if I just arrived from Montreal for the first time ever, for example, what does the sign tell me? Not much. It should indicate some sort of train to downtown or something.

[GeeCee]

There's a helpful chart on the TVMs as well which tells you what zone to buy as well. It's very small though and down too low.. It's the yellow/red/green sticker underneath the transfer dispenser.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by Chikinlittle

Sure, there's a map there, and there's a dotted line that I know means a difference in zone. But again, for somebody who doesn't know our system, which will be a lot of people arriving into the airport, and tourist using the system, it doesn't indicate anything about Zone 1 or Zone 2.

There's a list of all the SkyTrain stations indicating whether you should be purchasing a 1-zone, 2-zone, or 3-zone fare.

Originally Posted by Chikinlittle

Another note on that - in the arrivals area, there is a sign with a small universal 'train' symbol and it says Canada Line. Again, I know what that means, but if I just arrived from Montreal for the first time ever, for example, what does the sign tell me? Not much. It should indicate some sort of train to downtown or something.

Agreed. Many of the YVR signs just indicate "Canada Line," but really nothing much other than that. Although, many airports don't really indicate where the public transit line takes people to, Hong Kong's Airport Express just says "to city."

But imagine if it did indicate that the train goes to downtown: can you imagine how many more people would use the line?!

[mrjauk]

I was on the Canada Line today as well. Traveled from Waterfront to Richmond/Brighouse, got off and walked around for a bit, then got back on to Brigdeport, out to YVR, then back to Waterfront. A couple of observations:

I think that it's still too early to tell what normal ridership figures will be come September 7th. In my estimation, there were a lot of looky-loos (myself included) riding the line today. Next weekend might be a better indication of what a regular weekend day will be like. Then again, it may take a while before the looky-loo demand has been depleted.

Traveling through Richmond at about 10 metres off the ground gave me a view of Richmond I'd never seen before. As much as Richmond has changed in the last 10-15 years, I think that in 15-20 years the place will be indistinguishable. There's a lot of room/opportunity for density to be built, while maintaining an industrial/retail component.

[Metro-One]

This is getting ridiculous...I've been a huge critic of the Canada Line's capacity, but I never thought capacity problems would emerge so early....days, not even years (2-3 years).

I'm not looking forward to September 7th at all.

I'm happy that it's popular, but not to the point where it become a victim of its own success.

Do remember that we can more than double the capacity simply by running more frequent trains currently. And after that is exhausted we can then add a third car to the trains.

I honestly knew this line would be popular of the bat, but I also have a feeling, knowing the limited area it services (only Richmond, south Van and the Airport), that its ridership levels will probably experience more of a plateau than that of the Expo or Millennium lines (which currently service much larger and quickly expanding areas). Of course after the numbers plateau they will continue to creep up, but not at the rate of the E/M lines.

[en2]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

Well, I have now taken the entire Canada Line and my review:

OH MY GOD IT'S TOO FRICKEN SMALL!!! And buggy.

I also have finally taken the Canada Line today and I have to agree it is way too small and there are too many "choke points" in the system.

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

At YVR there were hundreds of people lined up for the train with luggage, HUNDREDS, the lineup extended down the pathways to Domestic and International. People were not going to fit all on 1, or possibly even 2 trains. And, they were all just standing around in a non-uniform way, making it extremely hard to exit the train, and of course, people were getting on the train at the same time a COMPLETELY PACKED train was trying to exit, creating a lot of bumping.

While I was at YVR-Airport, the platform was packed with people and there was some sort of malfunction with the train where the train was just stationary but the doors were closed.

My opinion of the YVR-Airport station is that it seems to be designed way too small. Are they planning to put fare-gates at the opening that leads to the platforms?!

They should have either built a mezzanine or something that separates the ticketing area and the fare paid zones...

Also as the rest of you have noticed, signage from the airport to the station is VERY POOR.

The signs should say "Trains to the city via the Canada Line", instead of just having some logo of a train and the words "Canada Line".

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

At Bridgeport, the already nearly capacity train, became a CRUSH LOAD train, it was PACKED beyond belief and ability to breathe, most trains in Japan aren't this busy. The next few stops saw more people trying to squeeze on to the train, but some elected to wait. It was insanely busy, and people with tons of luggage and big backpacks significantly reduced the number of people that could fit on.

This is going to be a major choke-point in the system when all long distance buses terminate at Bridgeport. The station was not built big enough for its role as a major interchange.

Maybe they should have had 3 tracks and 2 platforms and a shuttle service to the airport? I have taken Singapore's MRT system and that is what they do with their rapid transit to the airport. None of the trains go directly from the city centre.

I also think they should crank up the A/C in the trains to maximum when the trains are packed.

If the system does continue to be heavily used, I think they may have to configure the train layout to have "bench style seating" which would allow for more passengers to stand in the middle of the trainsets instead of crowding near the doors.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by en2

My opinion of the YVR-Airport station is that it seems to be designed way too small. Are they planning to put fare-gates at the opening that leads to the platforms?!

I somewhat agree with you here. I don't think they were expecting that many people to be using the line to and from the airport originally. Luckily though, YVR-Airport, can easily be reconfigured. See below.

Originally Posted by en2

They should have either built a mezzanine or something that separates the ticketing area and the fare paid zones...

Level 3/P3/Departures, where the current Safety & Security cabinet is, can be used for ticketing, and the LINK building can also be used for ticketing. The glass/advertisements currently separating the ticket concourse from the platform can be removed (not structural), creating a much larger, open platform.

One interesting thing to note is that there are no signs at YVR-Airport indicating that the platform is a Fare Paid Zone...

What I don't understand right now is that Sea Island Centre and Templeton are 1-zone fare, but wasn't there discussions before saying all stations are exempt from TransLink fare? I wonder how does it work when airport operations move the staff parking lot to Templeton: are airport workers exempt from the Fare Paid Zone on Sea Island Centre stations?

Originally Posted by en2

This is going to be a major choke-point in the system when all long distance buses terminate at Bridgeport. The station was not built big enough for its role as a major interchange.

I'm somewhat concerned for Bridgeport Stn because the platforms should've been a lot wider to accommodate more people. We will just have to see on Sept 7.

Originally Posted by en2

Maybe they should have had 3 tracks and 2 platforms and a shuttle service to the airport? I have taken Singapore's MRT system and that is what they do with their rapid transit to the airport. None of the trains go directly from the city centre.

The one-trip ride to downtown really makes it an attractive alternative to other forms of transportation.

Originally Posted by en2

I also think they should crank up the A/C in the trains to maximum when the trains are packed.

A/C is so weak.

Originally Posted by en2

If the system does continue to be heavily used, I think they may have to configure the train layout to have "bench style seating" which would allow for more passengers to stand in the middle of the trainsets instead of crowding near the doors.

Exactly: seats on the Canada Line can easily be reconfigured. I think we might have to explore side seating, or single seats like the ones on the second generation MK II and have more overhead bars or bars going from ceiling to floor.

[Waders]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

Do they ever run both platforms at Waterfront? Both times I've been there they've had one train parked out of service..

Only 1 platform(West side) was used on Saturday and Sunday around 1pm and 3pm when I took the train.
Train actually had to stop in the tunnel to wait for train to depart before it can enter the platform.

Originally Posted by GeeCee

I'm not sure if Yume-sama's experience can really be considered typical given the problems with the line.. but we've been hearing a lot of reports of issues with the YVR branch the last couple of days. What the heck is going on?

From my observation, there were a lot of people still trying out the system on Saturday and Sunday. At Waterfront station 3 police and a few attendents maintained the order, stopped pessengers just before the north platform entrance and separated about 40 waiting pessengers into 2 lineup, the 1st lineup for YVR and the 2nd lineup for Richmond.
There was system wide delay. My train had to stop in the tunnel before 4 stations and waited for the previous train to depart.

Bridgeport station was crowded. It would be the station to watch on Sept. 7.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by deasine

I'm somewhat concerned for Bridgeport Stn because the platforms should've been a lot wider to accommodate more people. We will just have to see on Sept 7.

I know a lot of people from work and have a ton of friends that will need to use Brighouse everyday from transferring onto the line.

lol, I'm not gonna wait....I'm going to say it right now: it's going to be a disaster at Brighouse starting Labour Day. It's just far too narrow. Like I said many times before, they should have built both Broadway and Brighouse with 50-metre platforms right from the start.

A/C is so weak.

Hopefully, this isn't the A/C's max.

Exactly: seats on the Canada Line can easily be reconfigured. I think we might have to explore side seating, or single seats like the ones on the second generation MK II and have more overhead bars or bars going from ceiling to floor.

I'd like to see side seating like the MTR....but it won't be an easy change, even though it's only a ~20% decrease in the number of seats. A lot of people love their seats. Certainly, there are definitely not enough bars as is to hold onto.

Fact is, as we move forward InTransitBC will have to learn to become incredibly efficient with the Canada Line. We can't afford to have trains breaking down so often. And every square foot of space in the trains needs to be used as efficiently as possible.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Waders

From my observation, there were a lot of people still trying out the system on Saturday and Sunday. At Waterfront station 3 police and a few attendents maintained the order, stopped pessengers just before the north platform entrance and separated about 40 waiting pessengers into 2 lineup, the 1st lineup for YVR and the 2nd lineup for Richmond.
There was system wide delay. My train had to stop in the tunnel before 4 stations and waited for the previous train to depart.

Bridgeport station was crowded. It would be the station to watch on Sept. 7.

That's one reason why it needs larger platforms. Not just for more capacity, but for more space for people to wait for trains. It's absurd really that the platforms can only fit so few people (in relative terms).

Bridgeport will be a gong show, it'll be a disaster.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by mr.x

I know a lot of people from work and have a ton of friends that will need to use Brighouse everyday from transferring onto the line.

lol, I'm not gonna wait....I'm going to say it right now: it's going to be a disaster at Brighouse starting Labour Day. It's just far too narrow. Like I said many times before, they should have built both Broadway and Brighouse with 50-metre platforms right from the start.

Right now, the majority of the people using Bridgeport is people transferring from Richmond-Brighouse trains to YVR-Airport trains. Honestly, how many people would really do such a thing on a normal day?

Funny story yesterday, a lot of people got off at Templeton Stn because they got on the wrong train bound for YVR-Airport when they wanted the Richmond-Brighouse one. I don't even know how people can make such a mistake when there are announcements and signs.

Anyways, with proper synchronization of buses and trains, I can't see Bridgeport being a problem in the short term. In the long run... it's a different story. TransLink really needs to make sure buses are synced in time with trains, and not all suburban buses arrive at once: I would say maximum two at a time.

Originally Posted by mr.x

Fact is, as we move forward InTransitBC will have to learn to become incredibly efficient with the Canada Line. We can't afford to have trains breaking down so often. And every square foot of space in the trains needs to be used as efficiently as possible.

Problems with public infrastructure are bound to happen. I'm surprised there wasn't any major breakdown during the opening day. It's been less than a week since InTransitBC has opened the line for the public and already, some of us have painted a doomsday picture for the Canada Line.

I think the real test for the Canada Line isn't Sept 7; the real test is during the winter, when there is snow.

[Waders]

Originally Posted by deasine

I think the real test for the Canada Line isn't Sept 7; the real test is during the winter, when there is snow.

Even though Expo/M. Line has switch heater that operates at 150 degrees Celsius, it didn't work well with heavy snow. Does C-L use the same technology? There was talk about installing enclosure around the switch area after last year's snow days, but I guess there is no money for it.

[Yume-sama]

I'm willing to admit my experience today probably won't be "typical", but I do think they've underestimated ridership quite seriously.

It is also my belief that they have somehow succeeded in making the ticketing machines "too complicated" and they shouldn't have to have 2 people being paid to stand by each machine telling people how to use it, like how to swipe your card in the proper way, wait for yellow light, and quickly pull. Some written instructions would have been helpful. Also, zones aren't easily explained.

I also think they underestimated how much space ginormous backpacks (you know the kind that all of those white people backpack with that you could stuff a child in) and luggage sets take up.

Each car may have a certain capacity of "people", but the baggage can cut that in half or more.

[ravman]

Originally Posted by AMTDGT

2. YVR HAS TO DO a better job. I knew where to go to get from domestic arrivals to the station. A number of people asked me if I knew the way. The issue is the very small YVR signs. (which is normal at YVR and a complaint of mine about YVR for quite some time) and the almost total lack of advertising for the train.

3.If I didn't know it was 2 zones to Yaletown

there needs to be more sinage for both entrances to YVR station... from Domestic side and transborder/intl side... surprised YVR didnt do this already considering they cough up a lotta $$$$ to build it.... but i am sure pple will complain and they will do it....

Originally Posted by mr.x

Thanks for the diagram lightrail! Really nice work there.


It's a shame there aren't more track switches along the line....are there really none along the Richmond portion?

I concur with the diagram

and yes there are none... reason: P3

Originally Posted by mr.x

This is getting ridiculous....I've been a huge critic of the Canada Line's capacity, but I never thought capacity problems would emerge so early....days, not even years (2-3 years).

u being a critic... u have been a supporter..... i have been the one who has been criticizing this project and i have been the one who have said from the getgo that a P3 was a wrong move.... I always wanted something that was integrated with the expoline with 80mtr platforms and non-cut and cover tunnelling and no ridership guarantee.

Originally Posted by nname

Maybe they should start running at the regular service plan (3min between trains) starting September...

not going to happen with a p3

[raskal]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

I'm willing to admit my experience today probably won't be "typical", but I do think they've underestimated ridership quite seriously.

It is also my belief that they have somehow succeeded in making the ticketing machines "too complicated" and they shouldn't have to have 2 people being paid to stand by each machine telling people how to use it, like how to swipe your card in the proper way, wait for yellow light, and quickly pull. Some written instructions would have been helpful. Also, zones aren't easily explained.

I also think they underestimated how much space ginormous backpacks (you know the kind that all of those white people backpack with that you could stuff a child in) and luggage sets take up.

Each car may have a certain capacity of "people", but the baggage can cut that in half or more.

I respectfully disagree with your belief. These same people that cannot read instructions on a machine also could not read the sign at the bus stop that said exact change only, yet tried to pay with bills or foreign currency.

Those same 'ginormous' backpacks you speak of were also boarded onto a bus which would take them to meet the crowded B-Line buses and still people managed to fit on with them.

I have had the opportunity of traveling to YVR for a week now and am still seeing lots of 'sightseers' using the C-Line. Once the crunch comes on the long weekend, it will be messy for the first few days until everyone gets used to a new routine. But I believe that once the novelty settles down and people start using it as designed we will find that it will work very well. Yes there will still be crowds going northbound during the morning rush and southbound during the afternoon rush. That's a given, but I for one believe it won't be so bad once the dust settles.

[Waders]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

I'm willing to admit my experience today probably won't be "typical", but I do think they've underestimated ridership quite seriously.

Ridership pattern has changed because of the addition of this new line.
Take me as an example. I seldem went to Richmond because it would take more than 1 hour by bus. Since the line opened on Tuesday, I have already travelled to Richmond 3 times as a true pessenger. This new line has allow me to go to malls to shop and places to eat in Richmond so much easier and quicker.
Increased transportation network connectivity can generate additional ridership demand.

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

I also think they underestimated how much space ginormous backpacks (you know the kind that all of those white people backpack with that you could stuff a child in) and luggage sets take up.

I saw quite a few pessengers with luggages stood near the train door, slowed down pessengers getting in/out the train. The luggage also become an obstacle on the narrow platform.

[lightrail]

Originally Posted by deasine

There's a list of all the SkyTrain stations indicating whether you should be purchasing a 1-zone, 2-zone, or 3-zone fare.




Agreed. Many of the YVR signs just indicate "Canada Line," but really nothing much other than that. Although, many airports don't really indicate where the public transit line takes people to, Hong Kong's Airport Express just says "to city."

But imagine if it did indicate that the train goes to downtown: can you imagine how many more people would use the line?!

They need more signs like this one and signs in the arrivals area pointing towards the Canada Line. It's a bit blurry - but it says "Canada Line. Public Rail transit to downtown Vancouver.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by lightrail

They need more signs like this one and signs in the arrivals area pointing towards the Canada Line. It's a bit blurry - but it says "Canada Line. Public Rail transit to downtown Vancouver.

Funny thing is that the TV isn't even used half the time... just says YVR most of the time.

On Sat morning:

Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected


Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected


Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected


Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected


Photography by Deasine - Hosted on Picasa Web Albums - Creative Commons Protected