Skyline Pics of Halifax

[someone123]

Queen's Marque is actually adding a net 150 spots beyond the capacity of the old surface lot it replaces. The surface lots are very visible but don't have that much capacity.

Despite only being a couple of km long, the Halifax waterfront has a few very distinctive sections now. Once Queen's Marque is open the northern half will be petty good. The stretch around Purdy's is sparse but coherent and has some architectural interest. The part between Bishop's Landing and Summit Place is a real dead zone right now. South of there is kind of sparse too but it fits the more industrial feel.

[davedavedave123]

I will actually be kind of sad when/if the salter lot is developed (as seems to be the discussion around a new art gallery/NSCAD). Have been to many events there over the years (Jazzfest, Oyster fest etc). It also seems that a lot of people who are not used to parking in garages are very reluctant to do so.

[atbw]

Originally Posted by davedavedave123

I will actually be kind of sad when/if the salter lot is developed (as seems to be the discussion around a new art gallery/NSCAD). Have been to many events there over the years (Jazzfest, Oyster fest etc). It also seems that a lot of people who are not used to parking in garages are very reluctant to do so.

I had this discussion with a friend and it does kind of seem like a loss. Jazzfest, buskers midway, Ribfest, it's nice to have a space downtown that accommodates those types of events - having them downtown really makes Halifax alive.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by atbw

I had this discussion with a friend and it does kind of seem like a loss. Jazzfest, buskers midway, Ribfest, it's nice to have a space downtown that accommodates those types of events - having them downtown really makes Halifax alive.

I wonder if they will keep a big open public space on the Salter site. It's a huge area for a new art gallery. The Waterfront Warehouse lot could also be reconfigured a bit to turn it into more of an extension of the event space. It's not being used very efficiently right now.

[atbw]

Originally Posted by someone123

I wonder if they will keep a big open public space on the Salter site. It's a huge area for a new art gallery. The Waterfront Warehouse lot could also be reconfigured a bit to turn it into more of an extension of the event space. It's not being used very efficiently right now.

It would be nice to see it remain as an open space in some capacity. Along the waterfront itself, with the hammocks and shipping container vendors, it's a great stretch, but the art gallery with a better designed open space would be great. Maybe even lessen its focus on parking and cater towards being primarily an event space.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I've been thinking about that lately myself - there needs to be some open event space remaining on the waterfront. I have been wondering what will happen to these events if it's developed out - whether they will move up to the Citadel or the commons where they won't be as enjoyable (there's something about being on the waterfront), or if they will just cease to happen.

Already we've seen a decrease in activity with the building of Queen's Marque. The much-criticized surface parking lot used to be a great location to set up tents for bands to play in, etc. Also noticed that Natal Day events seem to have dropped off to nearly nothing, but that's another topic for another thread.

Hopefully there will be some thought on this situation by government before all the land is used up.

Regarding the surface parking, I'm sure it's not much of an issue, as people can't park there when an event is happening, so presumably there is sufficient parking in other areas, and some new developments are including public parking in their underground lots. It might just come down to price point, as people tend to prefer free streetside parking first and foremost. I'm not sure what the surface lots charge as I never park there, but I've noticed the going price for most new parkades now is in the $3.00/hour range. Mostly I was surprised that the surface lots were so full, as they haven't been so much when I've been there recently.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Already we've seen a decrease in activity with the building of Queen's Marque.

It's just a construction site right now though. We don't know what the net result will be once the new public spaces open up and new people and businesses move in.

It's nice to have event space but the old surface lot where Queen's Marque is being built right now was not very vibrant most of the time.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

It's just a construction site right now though. We don't know what the net result will be once the new public spaces open up and new people and businesses move in.

It's nice to have event space but the old surface lot where Queen's Marque is being built right now was not very vibrant most of the time.

I understand. I was simply supporting the conversation in that removing space where events can be held can result in less events.

Of course Queen's Marque will bring many pluses that will likely outweigh the minuses, but there probably won't be anymore entertainment tents going with music playing into the late hours of the night, as there will now be well-to-do people living there that would not approve of the 'noise' in 'their' place. It will be different, but that can be OK as well.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Of course Queen's Marque will bring many pluses that will likely outweigh the minuses, but there probably won't be anymore entertainment tents going with music playing into the late hours of the night, as there will now be well-to-do people living there that would not approve of the 'noise' in 'their' place. It will be different, but that can be OK as well.

The art gallery development could be much more compatible with events like this. It might even make the site better by insulating Bishop's Landing. There really is tons of land there, particularly when you consider that the development could extend out onto the filled portion. If they use the site creatively and build out onto the water it could be great.

I don't mean to be too contrarian but I find that the idea that residents are incompatible with noisy events or will kill off nightlife is one of those overly negative and conservative bits of received wisdom that Haligonians repeat often but that doesn't always seem to be true in Halifax and definitely isn't true in cities in general. Downtown living tends to appeal to people who are okay with more noise. Those who want quiet surroundings have lots of more affordable options in the Halifax area, and the people who move in don't necessarily have the right to expect that events or businesses that predate them must all change to accommodate them.

There are already lots of people living near entertainment areas. I think the old Canada Permanent Building is apartments for example. If you move in to that building you'd better be ready for some noise.

In the same way, a lot of visitors who book a hotel in a city centre know that it might get noisy. Some consider it a good trade-off for the convenience, and if they wanted quiet they'd probably go out on a holiday in the country anyway.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

The art gallery development could be much more compatible with events like this. It might even make the site better by insulating Bishop's Landing. There really is tons of land there, particularly when you consider that the development could extend out onto the filled portion. If they use the site creatively and build out onto the water it could be great.

I don't mean to be too contrarian but I find that the idea that residents are incompatible with noisy events or will kill off nightlife is one of those overly negative and conservative bits of received wisdom that Haligonians repeat often but that doesn't always seem to be true in Halifax and definitely isn't true in cities in general. Downtown living tends to appeal to people who are okay with more noise. Those who want quiet surroundings have lots of more affordable options in the Halifax area, and the people who move in don't necessarily have the right to expect that events or businesses that predate them must all change to accommodate them.

There are already lots of people living near entertainment areas. I think the old Canada Permanent Building is apartments for example. If you move in to that building you'd better be ready for some noise.

In the same way, a lot of visitors who book a hotel in a city centre know that it might get noisy. Some consider it a good trade-off for the convenience, and if they wanted quiet they'd probably go out on a holiday in the country anyway.

By all means... be contrarian. It fuels good conversation.

Perhaps the narrative is changing. I recall speaking to a colleague, a man in his mid-30s who was renting one of the Bishop's Landing condos while in town for business for a several months, complaining about the 'yahooing' and whatnot from the downtown party folk that happened night after night from about midnight till 2:30-ish, and then quieted down once the bar crowd had filtered off to their next destinations. I was a little taken aback, thinking that you should know it comes with the territory, but he was from another part of Canada and I suppose wasn't aware of the Halifax party scene.

Anyhow... this was just people having a good time, not amplified base notes with a wavelength sufficient enough to penetrate condo walls, or a continual 4/4 beat. It's only one case, I know, but that left me with the impression that this might be a common, or at least not unusual, attitude.

Perhaps I'm wrong in my assumption, and possibly these new units will be really well insulated for sound, so maybe not an issue. My thought pattern, however, was such that if there were sound complaints from influential people, the city might not be so ready to issue permits for such activity. It could potentially only take complaints from one or two residents to have such an effect.

Besides, as Keith would be quick to point out, after listening to the continual rumbling of container trucks all day and all night, perhaps you would be immune to such sounds...

[Keith P.]

The issue of event space DT is an interesting dilemma. You want the empty lots and surface parking lots developed, but then you lose that open space. I can't really think of much land in the vicinity of the waterfront and DT core that would be suitable aside from the Citadel and Common, which is on the edge and not so convenient to many things.

I wonder if the actual harbor itself could be used? A floating platform stage might be one option, though you would still need a big enough space for spectators on land. Or you could flip it perhaps - a permanent (only because I would worry about floating) grandstand/platform type structure right at the waters edge. I wonder if anything like that has been done elsewhere? Perhaps make part of the eventual development of Salter a waterfront amphitheater? I would agree that some outdoor space would be useful, and would be even better if it could have a mobile roof that could be opened/removed or closed.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

The issue of event space DT is an interesting dilemma... I wonder if the actual harbor itself could be used? A floating platform stage... a permanent... grandstand/platform type structure right at the waters edge...

I think it would be quite a calling-card for the city if it could manage to use the harbour to its benefit for something like what you've described. Taking advantage of the water's edge condition while reinforcing things that make Halifax different than other places seems pretty win-win to me.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Perhaps the narrative is changing. I recall speaking to a colleague, a man in his mid-30s who was renting one of the Bishop's Landing condos while in town for business for a several months, complaining about the 'yahooing' and whatnot from the downtown party folk that happened night after night from about midnight till 2:30-ish, and then quieted down once the bar crowd had filtered off to their next destinations. I was a little taken aback, thinking that you should know it comes with the territory, but he was from another part of Canada and I suppose wasn't aware of the Halifax party scene.

Halifax has a bit of a strange reputation. Sometimes people talk about it like it's a large metropolitan area with a million people or more and other times like it's a village or maybe a Charlottetown-sized place (the other day I read a CBC article about the arts scene in Halifax wherein the author chose to write "city" in scare quotes ). I could easily see somebody getting the wrong impression, but it is their responsibility to research before they visit. It has never been easier to do this research.

Another factor is that there is a lot more drinking and partying there than you would expect in most other Canadian cities. The phenomenon of noisy people hanging out at Pizza Corner at 2:30 am on a Wednesday is not something that's very common in Canada. Argyle-Grafton type areas are mostly a thing you find in only the biggest North American cities. But this is an asset, not a liability. Downtown Halifax should market itself as a busy party area. People who don't like that can go to the other 99.9% of the Maritimes which are mostly comatose. That includes some neighbourhoods that are within walking distance.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

Halifax has a bit of a strange reputation. Sometimes people talk about it like it's a large metropolitan area with a million people or more and other times like it's a village or maybe a Charlottetown-sized place (the other day I read a CBC article about the arts scene in Halifax wherein the author chose to write "city" in scare quotes ). I could easily see somebody getting the wrong impression, but it is their responsibility to research before they visit. It has never been easier to do this research.

Another factor is that there is a lot more drinking and partying there than you would expect in most other Canadian cities. The phenomenon of noisy people hanging out at Pizza Corner at 2:30 am on a Wednesday is not something that's very common in Canada. Argyle-Grafton type areas are mostly a thing you find in only the biggest North American cities. But this is an asset, not a liability. Downtown Halifax should market itself as a busy party area. People who don't like that can go to the other 99.9% of the Maritimes which are mostly comatose. That includes some neighbourhoods that are within walking distance.

Las Vegas of the east!

"What happens in Halifax stays in Halifax". Works for me!

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by someone123

The art gallery development could be much more compatible with events like this. It might even make the site better by insulating Bishop's Landing. There really is tons of land there, particularly when you consider that the development could extend out onto the filled portion. If they use the site creatively and build out onto the water it could be great.

I don't mean to be too contrarian but I find that the idea that residents are incompatible with noisy events or will kill off nightlife is one of those overly negative and conservative bits of received wisdom that Haligonians repeat often but that doesn't always seem to be true in Halifax and definitely isn't true in cities in general. Downtown living tends to appeal to people who are okay with more noise. Those who want quiet surroundings have lots of more affordable options in the Halifax area, and the people who move in don't necessarily have the right to expect that events or businesses that predate them must all change to accommodate them.

There are already lots of people living near entertainment areas. I think the old Canada Permanent Building is apartments for example. If you move in to that building you'd better be ready for some noise.

In the same way, a lot of visitors who book a hotel in a city centre know that it might get noisy. Some consider it a good trade-off for the convenience, and if they wanted quiet they'd probably go out on a holiday in the country anyway.

I've heard a lot of people complain about this happening with the entertainment district in Toronto (and to a lesser extent the downtown in general)

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

The issue of event space DT is an interesting dilemma. You want the empty lots and surface parking lots developed, but then you lose that open space. I can't really think of much land in the vicinity of the waterfront and DT core that would be suitable aside from the Citadel and Common, which is on the edge and not so convenient to many things.

There are a few spaces that come to mind: Grand Parade, the covered section of Grafton, the southernmost section of Argyle, Purdy's Wharf, the Historic Properties. I'm not sure any of these could support things like midway rides, but the Seaport area probably could (itself largely a massive surface parking lot). Alderney Landing could also support a lot more use than it currently gets. It baffles me that large-scale events inside the Citadel aren't more common - it seems like a huge wasted opportunity. The Cogswell redevelopment will also open up some more space around Granville Mall (another space that gets way less use than it potentially could).

I wonder if the actual harbor itself could be used? A floating platform stage might be one option, though you would still need a big enough space for spectators on land. Or you could flip it perhaps - a permanent (only because I would worry about floating) grandstand/platform type structure right at the waters edge. I wonder if anything like that has been done elsewhere? Perhaps make part of the eventual development of Salter a waterfront amphitheater? I would agree that some outdoor space would be useful, and would be even better if it could have a mobile roof that could be opened/removed or closed.

That would be fantastic

[Hali87]

A few anecdotal impressions from the ROC:

[Friend from Kingston who visited]: "I thought it would be more... historic. I'm kind of disappointed there's skyscrapers and stuff here"

[Friend from London, ON who visited]: "It's way bigger than London"

[Friend from Vancouver who has been to NB but not NS]: "So do you guys have like, highrises...?"

[Various people from Victoria on different occasions]: "Halifax reminds me a LOT of home. Of course, Victoria's a bit bigger, but still"

[My cousin's girlfriend, who's from Japan but lives in Calgary: "Halifax? Oh! That's near PEI!"

[Random stranger from the 905-belt]: "Halifax? What do people DO there? It must be so boring to live there!"

My neighbour in the BC interior was only vaguley aware that there was a place in Canada called Halifax, and had no mental image whatsoever of what it would be like.

A friend of mine who recently visited from Montreal sort of conceptualized it as "a city in the same sense that Montreal is a city", the difference in size figuring as an afterthought compared to the differences in culture and surroundings. This is mostly how I view this kind of thing as well.

I think at a national scale the general impression of Halifax from people who haven't been here (in my experience) is that it's a "fun" or "nice" city, one of the large-ish ones in Canada but not as big as TO/MTL/VAN, that everyone drinks a lot and eats mostly seafood and donairs, and that the ocean is adjacent to it, and other than that it's a bit of a mystery. The one "false" impression that for some reason seems to be very common (even here) is that it's more socially conservative and WASP-y than the Canadian average. I guess this probably plays into the "why are there people outside at 1AM???" mentality a bit.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Hali87

A friend of mine who recently visited from Montreal sort of conceptualized it as "a city in the same sense that Montreal is a city", the difference in size figuring as an afterthought compared to the differences in culture and surroundings. This is mostly how I view this kind of thing as well.

Maybe it's just the people I tend to be around, but I have found that Canadians, particularly Westerners, tend to be a bit more focused on trying to quantify the sizes and population of cities than Americans or Europeans. I figured this is because those other places have a greater variety of cities, both small ones that are very distinctive and large ones that are not. Or maybe it's some kind of pioneer mentality that you've only "made it" once your town is as populated as somewhere else.

(I also find that Canadians will be more condescending about a place being "small" than Americans. The New Yorker will come to Vancouver and talk about how nice the mountains are while the Torontonian will talk about how it feels small to them! In Halifax I see this sometimes with people who like to talk about how small the city is as a way to communicate their worldliness. It doesn't really matter, but you have to distinguish between the small-talk-as-posturing and actual discussion of what the city is like or what is appropriate there development-wise, etc.)

If you try to understand what Halifax is like from that starting point in terms of population ratios to Western Canadian cities your model will come up short a lot. 1/3 of an Edmonton? 1/2 of Winnipeg? Victoria is closer but still I still find it very different qualitatively, at least according to my tastes. This would probably be considered sacrilegious in the wider Canada section (which IMO is too rigidly focused on language and a few other things) but in some ways Victoria-Halifax reminds me of the difference between Vancouver and Montreal.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

I've heard a lot of people complain about this happening with the entertainment district in Toronto (and to a lesser extent the downtown in general)

To be clear I should say that I don't think this effect doesn't exist or isn't something to worry about. My point is that it shouldn't be considered a foregone conclusion that entertainment functions and residents are incompatible.

I also wouldn't suggest looking to Canadian cities as role models in this area.

I go to Seattle a lot and around Capitol Hill there are a bunch of expensive newer condos right next to outdoor patios that serve alcohol and play music until 2 or 3 am. And places like Barcelona are in a completely different ballpark.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I was recently sitting next to a guy from Toronto in one of Halifax's lovely microbreweries, sampling suds and chatting about our respective hometowns.

This guy has lived in Toronto all his life, works in the financial field, and was about mid 30s in age. He said he was considering moving to Halifax as he is tired of the long commutes (1 hour to travel 20 km) and the hectic pace of life in Toronto. His impression of Halifax was that it had the amenities of a big city but with a slower, more enjoyable pace of life.

I tried to give him the most accurate view of Halifax (from my experience as a 'lifer') that I could, and it all sounded good to him except the lack of major sports teams. He said his house is a 15 minute subway ride from Skydome (or Rogers whatever) and he likes to attend several Blue Jays games per year with his dad. So all was attractive except the sports team thing. He was really receptive of the idea of being able to go to a salt water beach just 20 minutes or less from the city.

Just one discussion with a stranger, but this guy really seemed fed up with life in Toronto and was looking for a life improvement.

As an aside, he was surprised that UBER is not here yet, but I told him that in my opinion it will be here within a few years.