Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction - Page 428

Migrant_Coconut · #**8541** Posted **Mar 12, 2018, 10:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Can we not just get rid of them and use the saved money for a longer extension?

At last check, underground SkyTrain is about $100-120M per kilometre and another $100M for each station. Even if all the public consultations somehow run up to half a million or more, that's still nickels and dimes compared to reaching Macdonald.

Reecemartin · #**8542** Posted **Mar 13, 2018, 1:43 AM**

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Spork · #**8543** Posted **Mar 13, 2018, 5:48 AM**

Just extend the line to Nanaimo and be done with it. Drop the tunnel 1km or so underground, get procurement going on the world's longest escalators for the station with the underwater aquarium in it, and GO!

casper · #**8544** Posted **Mar 13, 2018, 6:30 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

At last check, underground SkyTrain is about $100-120M per kilometre and another $100M for each station. Even if all the public consultations somehow run up to half a million or more, that's still nickels and dimes compared to reaching Macdonald.

The cost of public consultation is not the engineers, public relationships people, urban planners and wherever else is involved in helping the public put stickers in circles it is the delay in the project and the inflation on the construction cost.

Public consultation is great and an important part of understanding the problem, being accountable to tax payers and finding problems before shovels are in the ground. However, that is all been done, lets get on with turning soil. The politicians need some new photo ops and we need an expanded skytrain line.

ronthecivil · #**8545** Posted **Mar 14, 2018, 8:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Again, the telecomms utilities are all on 10th - couldn't put them on Broadway at the time, because of the streetcar - and relocating them is a significant increase in capital cost. Same reason (among others) that LRT down 16th is unworkable.

If you're building a giant trench anyways the cost of relocating a duct bank is peanuts compared to building a bored tunnel.

The only reason to build a tunnel is there are no other options.

Never forget the risk you get with that too. Who knows what mysteries lie down there? Remember the bored tunnel on Clark hill and the sinkholes? That's nothing....

Broadway is chock a block full of utilities.

Any bored tunnel will have a massive cut and cover shaft at the stations that will cause the same amount of disruption to both people and traffic, and impact the utilities just as bad, as the cut and cover down tenth would...

Reecemartin · #**8546** Posted **Mar 15, 2018, 3:14 PM**

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aberdeen5698 · #**8547** Posted **Mar 15, 2018, 3:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

We haven't seen an Underground LIM Skytrain station get built in a long time.

I'm not sure why we would expect an underground LIM station to be particularly special...?

cabotp · #**8548** Posted **Mar 15, 2018, 4:06 PM**

At least we know the station platforms will be 80M or more

Reecemartin · #**8549** Posted **Mar 15, 2018, 4:23 PM**

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Migrant_Coconut · #**8550** Posted **Mar 15, 2018, 6:36 PM**

The Canada Line uses conventional motors, not LIM... and what does the motor have to do with the station, other than the track brakes?

Reecemartin · #**8551** Posted **Mar 15, 2018, 6:55 PM**

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Alex Mackinnon · #**8552** Posted **Mar 15, 2018, 6:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronthecivil

If you're building a giant trench anyways the cost of relocating a duct bank is peanuts compared to building a bored tunnel.

The only reason to build a tunnel is there are no other options.

Never forget the risk you get with that too. Who knows what mysteries lie down there? Remember the bored tunnel on Clark hill and the sinkholes? That's nothing....

Broadway is chock a block full of utilities.

Any bored tunnel will have a massive cut and cover shaft at the stations that will cause the same amount of disruption to both people and traffic, and impact the utilities just as bad, as the cut and cover down tenth would...

I disagree, you can just move the station offside of the street and jog the tunnel over. The station pit doesn't need to be more complicated than an average high-rise foundation and parking lot.

All the geological info I've seen is generally more favourable for tunnelling than the fine sand that Evergreen went through. Evergreen was a deep soil tunnel, Broadway is a shallow one. Settlement and ground loss are still issues, but the soil and water pressure driving that soil movement is much smaller on Broadway.

The bigger concern is settlement and foundation damage. Both TBM and trenched excavation have potential settlement problems.

From my perspective, I'm most concerned about the possibility that the tunnel/trench will go through garbage filled ravines. That isn't fun for any construction method.

Migrant_Coconut · #**8553** Posted **Mar 15, 2018, 7:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

I'm aware of the fact the Canada Line does not use Lim but, it is a subway with arguably mediocre stations.

Lim makes a difference in the scale of the tunnels so thats the association between motor and stations.

The tunnels aren't all that much smaller - ever gotten on/off at Granville or Burrard?

All we know at this point is that TransLink realizes the need for more functional stations and longer platforms.

Reecemartin · #**8554** Posted **Mar 15, 2018, 7:03 PM**

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Migrant_Coconut · #**8555** Posted **Mar 15, 2018, 7:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Tunnels WILL be significantly smaller as they will be bored. The Canada Line has a much wider loading gauge.

Are we talking about the tunnels or the stations now? Either way, there really isn't a visible difference between the Expo Line and the Canada Line. One's square, the other's round, that's it.

WarrenC12 · #**8556** Posted **Mar 15, 2018, 7:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Are we talking about the tunnels or the stations now? Either way, there really isn't a visible difference between the Expo Line and the Canada Line. One's square, the other's round, that's it.

Boring machines make round tunnels, cut and cover makes square ones.

cganuelas1995 · #**8557** Posted **Mar 15, 2018, 8:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Boring machines make round tunnels, cut and cover makes square ones.

Cut and cover causes significantly more disruption. You need to rip up the entire road as opposed to like where the stations are gonna be built.

WarrenC12 · #**8558** Posted **Mar 15, 2018, 8:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Cut and cover causes significantly more disruption. You need to rip up the entire road as opposed to like where the stations are gonna be built.

Absolutely, I lived here when the Canada Line was constructed. But it's cheaper, and potentially faster.

cganuelas1995 · #**8559** Posted **Mar 15, 2018, 9:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Absolutely, I lived here when the Canada Line was constructed. But it's cheaper, and potentially faster.

But you do have to take into account that Cambie wasn't and still isn't as big as a corridor as Broadway is. Broadway carries 3 FTN buses east of Granville and 4 west of Granville, 4 or 5 respectively if you include the N17. This is a corridor that we want to minimize disruptions on.

Reecemartin · #**8560** Posted **Mar 15, 2018, 9:31 PM**

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