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  #8481  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2023, 5:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Oilkountry View Post
Stadiums in this country are meh. Our elites barley hold a candle to most high school stadiums in the US.
Any why is this important? You really haven't supported your assertion.

I suppose we "oat" to care.

If a stadium is a complete bowl with matching upper decks and spell-binding architecture without and within, who is that supposed to impress? And for how long?

I guess I tend to believe in a misquote of Shakespeare: The play's the thing.... "wherein I'll catch the conscience of the... gathering [king was used originally]" (i.e., fans)
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  #8482  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2023, 5:56 AM
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Originally Posted by elly63 View Post
The original design had elements of the veil around areas of the north stand and a fabric roof was planned before the retraction of the old roof idea took hold. The north side veil plans were removed because of budget.

Had Regina been willing to spend another $100 million they'd have had a dome. They originally intended to be in a building like below but later forsook the roof (and cost) before the first concept design came out.
Damn Canadians. Always focused on the price of things!

Only in Canada eh? ... pity.
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  #8483  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2023, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ScreamingViking View Post
Any why is this important? You really haven't supported your assertion.

I suppose we "oat" to care.

If a stadium is a complete bowl with matching upper decks and spell-binding architecture without and within, who is that supposed to impress? And for how long?

I guess I tend to believe in a misquote of Shakespeare: The play's the thing.... "wherein I'll catch the conscience of the... gathering [king was used originally]" (i.e., fans)
Sometimes I forget you guys are 100, And anything more then bleachers and lights is overkill because "back in the day" syndrom. I think a lot of the 55+ crowd is so accustomed to the 80-90s CFL/NHL you're out of touch with what's important to my generation and more importantly the next.

If you think BC place is worth bragging about it shows you all you care about is a barebones base model stadium and don't see value in the bells and whistles that you see down south. Yes TD place will do just fine. But this is a once in a century build, why not make it a memorable place to watch a CFL game.
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Last edited by Oilkountry; Nov 15, 2023 at 10:27 AM.
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  #8484  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2023, 1:39 PM
elly63 elly63 is offline
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Originally Posted by Oilkountry View Post
Sometimes I forget you guys are 100, And anything more then bleachers and lights is overkill because "back in the day" syndrom. I think a lot of the 55+ crowd is so accustomed to the 80-90s CFL/NHL you're out of touch with what's important to my generation and more importantly the next.
Apparently spelling and not making idiotic posts are not important to your generation.
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  #8485  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2023, 3:09 PM
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Isn't the point of going to the game to watch the game? Instead, we are turning stadiums into over stimulated entertainment complexes for generations that have the attention span of a gerbil. Maybe teachers have a point prioritizing social justice over reading, writing and arithmetic as teaching that shit is wasted on a class overflowing with A.D.D. Leave the management of our existence to the A.I. overlords.
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  #8486  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2023, 6:28 PM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is offline
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Show me all the high school stadiums in the US that are comparable to Tim Hortons, BMO Field and TD Place. I suspect the list is quite short if non-existent. We have already seen pictures here of what the typical US high school stadium looks like and it if fairly comparable to the University Stadiums we see in Central and Eastern Canada.

BC Place is a great facility. Have you seen the club areas and suites. They are pretty posh. The facility stands up to some of the smaller and slightly older NFL Stadiums like Detroits' albeit a smaller capacity and fewer club areas, club seats and suites.
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  #8487  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2023, 7:07 PM
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Canada is a hockey country and historically our stadiums for football are best suited in the 23 to 33k range. Trying to build so fi stadium or whatnot in Canada makes zero sense. Having practical comfortable stadiums that suit our communities and teams does make sense.
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  #8488  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2023, 8:04 PM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is offline
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Originally Posted by thurmas View Post
Canada is a hockey country and historically our stadiums for football are best suited in the 23 to 33k range. Trying to build so fi stadium or whatnot in Canada makes zero sense. Having practical comfortable stadiums that suit our communities and teams does make sense.
Yes and our collective mid-sized and large arenas are better than any country on Earth outside the USA. This is where we tend to invest our Sports Infrastructure.
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  #8489  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2023, 8:54 PM
elly63 elly63 is offline
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Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
This is where we tend to invest our Sports Infrastructure.
Countries ranked by number of ice hockey rinks 2021/22
Christina Gough November 10, 2022

In the 2021/22 season, there were 2,860 indoor and 5,000 outdoor ice hockey rinks located in Canada according to the International Ice Hockey Federation. Meanwhile, the United States was home to just over 1,500 indoor ice rinks and 500 outdoor facilities.

I am assuming for indoor rinks they are counting buildings with an actual ice plant and not field houses, halls or other large athletic buildings.

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  #8490  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2023, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Oilkountry View Post
Sometimes I forget you guys are 100, And anything more then bleachers and lights is overkill because "back in the day" syndrom. I think a lot of the 55+ crowd is so accustomed to the 80-90s CFL/NHL you're out of touch with what's important to my generation and more importantly the next.

If you think BC place is worth bragging about it shows you all you care about is a barebones base model stadium and don't see value in the bells and whistles that you see down south. Yes TD place will do just fine. But this is a once in a century build, why not make it a memorable place to watch a CFL game.
How about discussing the issue without being an ass?

You're making assumptions about demographics.

I'd rather not see tax money spent here the way it has been in many places in the U.S. Simple as that. If an owner wants to open up their wallets, or come up with some financing deal that keeps stadium costs low for taxpayers, that's fine with me. But how they spend their money will be their choosing.

When the Hamilton stadium was being planned, the city ended up being outside of the tent during discussions about what it should be like. The Ticats' ownership made sure they were at the table and that it would have the elements they needed to be profitable, and perhaps this was at the expense of aesthetics. Bob Young did not put up significant money for the build, that I can recall. He signed a lease deal that promised annual cash to the city, but I believe the vast majority of the initial price tag was being paid by governments. The budget wasn't huge either.

In the end, it's not an architectural marvel, but it's a great place to watch a game. Team ownership has made a few improvements here and there, but only those that suit the gameday revenue stream (which is understandable). So while I hope this new look for the south endzone social space is good, I expect it will be functionally utilitarian more than anything. Same goes for the new north stands in Ottawa.

The benches at Ivor Wynne and Frank Clair really sucked, by the way. Even the ones that had seatbacks at IWS -- at least you could lean back without someone's knees digging into your spine, but they were made for another era where seating space and leg room wasn't all that important. I sat in the south stands for a Grey Cup in Ottawa and the aluminum benches of the upper level were freaking cold! And one of our group ended up sitting on the steps, because there just wasn't enough room for all the people in the row. This made just having an individual seat a massive upgrade... hopefully your generation at least enjoys that too.
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  #8491  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2023, 9:18 PM
jonny24 jonny24 is offline
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I love Tim Hortons Field. Great view and comfortable seats everywhere.

In October I attended 3 Rugby World Cup games in France. Velodrome in Marseilles, OL Groupama stadium in Lyon, and Stade Pierre Mauroy in Lille. All three are visually stunning, and hade very big concourses, the seats were very tight shoulder to shoulder, not very much room for people passing by, no cupholders, no armrests, no scoreboards other than the scorebug in the corner of the (much smaller than THF) screens as if you were watching on TV.

Once the wow-factor had passed, it's actually much more enjoyable to watch a game at THF than these places. Aside from the roofs, being guaranteed covered is nice, but the cost of a roof would probably have meant THF would get built at all.





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  #8492  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2023, 9:22 PM
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Originally Posted by jonny24 View Post
In October I attended 3 Rugby World Cup games in France. Velodrome in Marseilles, OL Groupama stadium in Lyon, and Stade Pierre Mauroy in Lille. All three are visually stunning, and hade very big concourses, the seats were very tight shoulder to shoulder, not very much room for people passing by, no cupholders, no armrests, no scoreboards other than the scorebug in the corner of the (much smaller than THF) screens as if you were watching on TV.

Once the wow-factor had passed, it's actually much more enjoyable to watch a game at THF than these places. Aside from the roofs, being guaranteed covered is nice, but the cost of a roof would probably have meant THF would get built at all.
I suppose roofs could be added to THF, but the cost would be enormous. They'd probably have to be much like the ones at BMO Field. But dressing for the weather isn't hard to do.

The seating at TD Place is tight too. I've sat in the new south stand a couple of times, and it's cramped; my friends and I are bigger than average, so not having the seat width and armrests we have become accustomed to wasn't comfortable. And the concourses felt small. But the sightlines are very good. Still a huge upgrade over the old one. I haven't sat in the north since it was renovated, but the one time I did years ago it felt very much like Ivor Wynne (at least the part we sat in)
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  #8493  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2023, 1:30 AM
Franco401 Franco401 is offline
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Very funny discussion happening on the TFC subreddit right now:

https://www.reddit.com/r/tfc/comments/182c913/the_only_spot_i_can_think_for_a_new_stadium_407/
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  #8494  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2023, 5:29 AM
ivegotaname ivegotaname is offline
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Outside of halifax nobody cares about hockey in Atlantic Canada or all are leaf fans
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  #8495  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2023, 8:15 AM
elly63 elly63 is offline
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Originally Posted by ivegotaname View Post
Outside of halifax nobody cares about hockey in Atlantic Canada or all are leaf fans
But enough people in NB care enough to want a soccer team, right?

And despite nobody caring about hockey somehow there are six Maritime teams in the QMJHL.
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  #8496  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2023, 3:25 PM
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https://3downnation.com/2023/11/24/id-bu...stadium-as-number-one-issue-facing-team/

‘I’d build a new stadium’: Elks’ president views Commonwealth as ‘number one’ issue facing team

The Edmonton Elks have launched a committee to review the franchise’s ownership structure, but a depleted trust fund is not the only problem facing the organization.

Team president Rick LeLacheur pointed to an aging Commonwealth Stadium for its role in the current crisis.

“We need some very high investment into this stadium if this stadium is going to go forward as a CFL stadium,” LeLacheur said, noting that this was his own personal belief and not the club’s official position. “It’s been the love of the CFL for a lot of years, it’s had a lot of events here, but it’s not the stadium of the future that we have in Regina and Winnipeg and Hamilton and Ottawa.”

“If there was an unlimited amount of dollars, I’d build a new stadium. That’s what I’d do, but I don’t have that kind of dollars.”

Opened in July of 1978 ahead of that year’s Commonwealth Games, the stadium has served as the home of the Edmonton Football Team since launch, replacing the adjacent Clarke Stadium. The venue has undergone several renovations and expansions since its initial construction and currently seats 56,302 people.

Attendance at Elks games has diminished greatly over the past two decades, falling from an average of 41,228 in 2003 to 22,239 in 2023. Almost half of this decrease has occurred in the past five years as the club averaged attendance of 31,107 in 2018.

“It’s too big for today’s environment in the CFL and the type of seats that you can sell,” LeLacheur said. “You can sell suites, you can sell party decks, we’ve seen it in those other cities. Groups are a very important part of ticket sales for a CFL team, so we’re going to be looking at everything.”

The Elks’ current lease for Commonwealth Stadium runs through the 2027 season after the team agreed to a five-year extension with the city last offseason. That deal provided for the temporary waiving of licensing fees to take some financial pressure off the franchise.

The club announced in October that they will be closing the upper bowl for games beginning in 2024, reducing their capacity to 31,000 in an attempt to create a more intimate and engaging gameday experience. Even still, LeLacheur believes that Commonwealth presents unique challenges on the business side.

“The stadium’s been great for all these years, from ’78, but you look around the CFL now and even by closing the top deck, we’re going to be the fourth largest stadium,” he remarked. “We know it’s got the track that a lot of stadiums don’t have, we know it’s got the pitch that’s a lot more gradual slope than other stadiums. That’s probably the number one (issue) I’ve seen and we can still deal with it but we all have to work at it together.”

Edmonton recently went 1,415 days without a home victory, setting a new North American professional sports record of 22 consecutive home losses. The previous mark of 20 games was set by the St. Louis Browns of MLB in 1953. That had a noticeable impact on revenue, as the franchise posted a $3.3 million net operating loss in 2022 as attendance plummeted 9.1 percent.

Since 2019, the team has reported losses of $12.6 million, with another hit of approximately $4 million expected this season according to LeLacheur. The community-owned franchise is now actively investigating private ownership to provide the capital investment needed to thrive beyond the 2024 season.

In a dream scenario, that would include the deep pockets necessary to create a more appropriate home venue.

“It’s not going to happen overnight, I fully understand that,” LeLacheur said. “But if you could get a new facility where you could play CFL football and Canadian Premier League Soccer, then that fits for both and the more days you get in a facility, the better off you are.”
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  #8497  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2023, 4:59 PM
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Canadian Tire Centre in Kanata from my trip to the Ottawa area in mid-October.



pics by me.
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  #8498  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2023, 5:03 PM
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I hope they don't build a new stadium. We don't want another Montreal with a gigantic white elephant.

Quote:
Edmonton recently went 1,415 days without a home victory, setting a new North American professional sports record of 22 consecutive home losses. The previous mark of 20 games was set by the St. Louis Browns of MLB in 1953. That had a noticeable impact on revenue, as the franchise posted a $3.3 million net operating loss in 2022 as attendance plummeted 9.1 percent.
Sounds to me the problem is the product on the field, not the stadium. Had no idea there was a team worse than Ottawa.

Also:

Quote:
“We need some very high investment into this stadium if this stadium is going to go forward as a CFL stadium,” LeLacheur said, noting that this was his own personal belief and not the club’s official position. “It’s been the love of the CFL for a lot of years, it’s had a lot of events here, but it’s not the stadium of the future that we have in Regina and Winnipeg and Hamilton and Ottawa.”
Lol. Not sure I'd point to Hamilton, especially not Ottawa, as the stadiums of the future.
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  #8499  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2023, 5:33 PM
elly63 elly63 is offline
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I hope they don't build a new stadium. We don't want another Montreal with a gigantic white elephant.

Sounds to me the problem is the product on the field, not the stadium. Had no idea there was a team worse than Ottawa.

Lol. Not sure I'd point to Hamilton, especially not Ottawa, as the stadiums of the future.
Even though Commonwealth is well maintained, it was not built to accommodate the needs of today's clientele.

And yes, the problem was basically on the field. You can't expect having one of the worst losing streaks in history this side of the Washington Generals to not have a severe effect.

Frankly, I am amazed it wasn't worse. But never underestimate people's ability to go all Chicken Little and run around exclaiming the sky is falling. Seriously, how many times do we have to go through this with supposed fans and the CFL.

I can remember reading an SI article that said the league was gonna die in the late 80s.

As for Hamilton, despite its small budget and stadium size much thought did go into it's design for the modern patron. Seeing the future was an advantage Commonwealth didn't have at the time of its design

Last edited by elly63; Nov 24, 2023 at 5:44 PM.
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  #8500  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2023, 5:42 PM
elly63 elly63 is offline
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As for Hamilton, despite its small budget and stadium size much thought did go into it's design for the modern patron
Inside the CFL: Two Hamilton traditions
Ted Michaels Hamilton, ON (Sports Network) canada.com July 16, 2013

...

The new $145.7-million, state-of-the-art facility is being built on the same spot where the Hamilton Tiger-Cats' long-time venue, Ivor Wynne Stadium, used to stand.

The Tiger-Cats will get to play in a brand new facility, which is being funded by a city contribution of $54.3 million, $22.3 million from the province of Ontario, and the federal government, which will pay the remaining $69.1 million.

While the actual total of the agreement was not publicized, sources tell Inside the CFL that the naming rights were purchased for between $10 million and $15 million.

In addition, as was stated in a memorandum of agreement from February 2011, the Tiger-Cats will pay the city $1.2 million per year for 20 years in exchange for use of the stadium, including $450,000 in rent and $750,000 per season.

"We received significant feedback from our fans during the stadium design and programming phases, through an extensive survey program," Matt Afinec, Senior Vice President, New Stadium Development, told Inside the CFL. "The common theme was unanimous. Tiger-Cats fans wanted the stadium to include features that enhance their live viewing experience, including food and beverage access and quality, easier washroom access, technology which includes a videoboard, LCD TVs in concourses, modern sound and lighting systems and so on, while at the same time maintaining the best sightlines for CFL football anywhere in Canada."

Plans for a brand new stadium don't happen overnight. Afinec noted that Tim Hortons Field will be unique to Hamilton, but at the same time will be loosely modeled on other stadiums.

"We visited a number of stadiums and arenas across North America to gather best practices in new venues. This includes facilities that were larger in capacity and had far greater construction budgets relative to what was going to be delivered in Hamilton. However, we felt that great ideas rooted in enhancing the live viewing experience were transferable and could be customized to the needs of our local market, venue and construction budget. For example, we ultimately implemented the principle of two concepts from Cowboys Stadium in Arlington, Texas. The end zone patio at Tim Hortons Field is comparable in theme to the common areas in the end zones at Cowboys Stadium."

The end zone patio has a sports bar theme. It could be the most interesting feature of the new building, and in essence, become party central.

"We mean the elements that make a great sports bar -- comfortable seating, great food, not being constrained to a stadium seat, televisions, music and friends -- but the incredibly unique feature that you're in the end zone of a football field," Afinec pointed out. "The North End Zone patio deck, which is two-tiered, and elevated approximately five feet from the field of play, will hold about 400 people and will span the width of the field."

Ivor Wynne Stadium had something that no other CFL stadium had... the steps.

The Tiger-Cats would come out of their dressing room, down a tunnel and take the 14 steps up to the playing surface. Tim Hortons Field will have another feature new to the CFL... the walk.

"Another concept we adapted from Dallas, which is also a feature at MetLife Stadium in New Jersey, was that of the team taking the field in front of premium Club holders on field level. Tim Hortons Field will have an exclusive club for a maximum of 150 patrons, who will sit on the 55-yard line in the bowl and have access to a private lounge underneath the west side of the building. Adjacent to where this lounge is located is the vast walkway the players will use to go from the locker room to the center tunnel to take the field. Members can stand in that walkway and have an incredibly unique experience watching the players take the field."

Eighty percent of the seats at Tim Hortons Field are between the goal lines with a minimum seat width of 21 inches, with larger seats in the club and suite sections. By way of comparison, the Rogers Centre in Toronto has seats that are 19 inches wide. Fans will also rave about the new video scoreboard, which is almost 25 percent larger than the one that was seen at Ivor Wynne Stadium.

There's a total of 1,000 club seats with three themed lounges, including the Tiger-Cat Wall of Honor Club featuring former Tiger-Cat greats and the Canadian Football Hall of Fame Club.

Add in six elevators and fully accessible seating throughout the stadium at all price points and it appears Hamiltonians should be excited by the new facility, which is being built by a consortium of companies under the name Ontario Sports Solutions.
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