Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[thurmas]

I dunno seems very expensive and I don't know where Ottawa can squeeze in enough temp stands for hosting a Grey Cup. But oh well atleast it provides the city and team a modern facility for the foreseeable future i just hope yearly maintenance is done on it to avoid the issues old frank clair stadium had.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by thurmas

I dunno seems very expensive and I don't know where Ottawa can squeeze in enough temp stands for hosting a Grey Cup. But oh well atleast it provides the city and team a modern facility for the foreseeable future i just hope yearly maintenance is done on it to avoid the issues old frank clair stadium had.

I think the poor condition of the Civic Centre and North Side stands has been greatly exaggerated in order to push for this plan. The South Side though really needed to be replaced.

OSEG, who own the RedBlacks, came up with this plan, so presumably, they know how they can add bleachers for Grey Cups, concerts and NHL Classics, one would hope.

As for the price, yeah, seems a bit much. The 5.5k arena alone is $250 million. Somehow, Gatineau built a 4k arena for the Olympiques + three community rinks + a parking garage for $100 million not long ago. Sure it's a more basic building, and inflation on construction projects is through the roof, but still seems quite high.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

As for the price, yeah, seems a bit much. The 5.5k arena alone is $250 million. Somehow, Gatineau built a 4k arena for the Olympiques + three community rinks + a parking garage for $100 million not long ago. Sure it's a more basic building, and inflation on construction projects is through the roof, but still seems quite high.

Weren't people here not long ago complaining about a new stadium costing what, $800 million? And here they are getting half a new stadium for $100+ million? For what they're getting (the whole project) and not to compare it with anywhere else in the USA or where ever, seems reasonable to me.

[EpicPonyTime]

Isn't it obvious where the temp seats will go? Lots of field-facing balconies in those condo towers.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Some more images of Lansdowne Live 2.0.

I'm too lazy to look for details... will there be any RedBlacks gameday "social space" on those arena levels?

I don't mind the look of it, or the condo towers. And if people dress for weather, a lack of a roof is not a big deal (as proven season after season in many stadiums, not just those of the CFL). The reduction in capacity may be an issue, but there are ways to mitigate that.

[craner]

Very happy to see they are going to complete Landsdowne.

[Oilkountry]

Anyone else a little confused on why they aren't at least attempting to design sort sort of aethstetic unity between the 2 stands? I get the south side is the post card side from the river but why wouldn't they at least try and come up with some kind of canopy on the north side, Maybe the view of the field will be a selling point for the condos? Also gotta say im a little confused on why they arent doing something cool with the endzones. I get the arena side is a little blah. But are we really looking at a flat patio on the scoreboard side? Great news for ottawa ill just never agree with the "that will do" attitude canada has towards stadiums built every 60-80 years.

On a side note if the sens build downtown will that put Ottawa at the top of Sports infrastructure in Canada? Currently outside of Toronto I would give that to Winnipeg/Edmonton.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

ill just never agree with the "that will do" attitude canada has towards stadiums built every 60-80 years.

??? SkyDome, Olympic Stadium, Mosaic, IGF, BC Place

[elly63]

Originally Posted by craner

Side bar question: Someone mentioned BMO was being expanded to 45,000 for the WC - how will they do this, or more specifically, where will the temporary stands be added given those roofs over the endzone stands ?

FIFA announces Toronto and Vancouver as Canadian Host Cities for the FIFA World Cup 2026™

Click here for full FIFA press release
Click here for BMO Field venue renderings

[WhipperSnapper]

Entire generations of Americans were fine with old stadiums and arenas that were maintained and upgraded when necessary. The need to replace a 30 year old stadium grew around the same time as governments started footing the bill and the "tenants" profited.

There's also climate change

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by elly63

Weren't people here not long ago complaining about a new stadium costing what, $800 million? And here they are getting half a new stadium for $100+ million? For what they're getting (the whole project) and not to compare it with anywhere else in the USA or where ever, seems reasonable to me.

Those are grand 80k stadiums for NFL. Ottawa's building glorified bleachers.

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

I'm too lazy to look for details... will there be any RedBlacks gameday "social space" on those arena levels?

I don't mind the look of it, or the condo towers. And if people dress for weather, a lack of a roof is not a big deal (as proven season after season in many stadiums, not just those of the CFL). The reduction in capacity may be an issue, but there are ways to mitigate that.

I think there is some sort of a plan to utilize the window from the arena to the field, but nothing has been set in stone yet. Detailed plans for the arena coming in 2024.

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

Anyone else a little confused on why they aren't at least attempting to design sort sort of aethstetic unity between the 2 stands? I get the south side is the post card side from the river but why wouldn't they at least try and come up with some kind of canopy on the north side, Maybe the view of the field will be a selling point for the condos? Also gotta say im a little confused on why they arent doing something cool with the endzones. I get the arena side is a little blah. But are we really looking at a flat patio on the scoreboard side? Great news for ottawa ill just never agree with the "that will do" attitude canada has towards stadiums built every 60-80 years.

On a side note if the sens build downtown will that put Ottawa at the top of Sports infrastructure in Canada? Currently outside of Toronto I would give that to Winnipeg/Edmonton.

It's all about building on a budget. When the South Side was rebuilt, we had a little more vision for something nice, but now it seems like were doing the bare minimum.

I would hope that they at least leave the space for future upgrades like a east end-zone fan area, expansion of the bleachers, a roof (City staff was directed to look into that).

If this and the Downtown Arena is built, I think Ottawa-Gatineau might lead the Country in modern "hockey" facilities. Three arenas of 10 years or under (4k Slush, 5.5k Lansdowne, 17k Sens). The Frankenstein modern basic stadium will never compare to most other CFL facilities. Yeah, very frustrating that even after rebuilding both sides of the stadium within 15 years, it will still be a miss-matched mess.

Originally Posted by elly63

??? SkyDome, Olympic Stadium, Mosaic, IGF, BC Place

Most of those examples were built when Canada did have a "can do" attitude. I think Mosaic is an exception thanks to Saskatchewan's pride in its publicly owned and only major league sports franchise. IGF is a mystery since Winnipeg isn't known as a visionary City.

For Lansdowne, I'm just disappointed we weren't presented with other options. I would have liked to see a scenario where the Civic Centre and stands were renovated, with towers on each side.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

Anyone else a little confused on why they aren't at least attempting to design sort sort of aethstetic unity between the 2 stands? I get the south side is the post card side from the river but why wouldn't they at least try and come up with some kind of canopy on the north side

How important is it though, to the vast majority of people?

If it adds a lot of cost, I don't think it would be worthwhile. And the south side may look "nicer" with that wood framework curving over top, but it's not functional.

They can probably design a new north stand that has some subtle cues that reflect/complement the south side which don't add much to the construction cost.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Those are grand 80k stadiums for NFL. Ottawa's building glorified bleachers.

I believe those conversations were about building new stadiums in Canada, certainly not 80k

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Most of those examples were built when Canada did have a "can do" attitude. I think Mosaic is an exception thanks to Saskatchewan's pride in its publicly owned and only major league sports franchise. IGF is a mystery since Winnipeg isn't known as a visionary City.

For Lansdowne, I'm just disappointed we weren't presented with other options. I would have liked to see a scenario where the Civic Centre and stands were renovated, with towers on each side.

I'm sure the people of Winnipeg will be happy to hear that. Non visionary would be my definition of renovating the Civic Centre and stands handcuffing them for another 50 years.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

How important is it though, to the vast majority of people?

If it adds a lot of cost, I don't think it would be worthwhile. And the south side may look "nicer" with that wood framework curving over top, but it's not functional.

They can probably design a new north stand that has some subtle cues that reflect/complement the south side which don't add much to the construction cost.

The original design had elements of the veil around areas of the north stand and a fabric roof was planned before the retraction of the old roof idea took hold. The north side veil plans were removed because of budget.

Had Regina been willing to spend another $100 million they'd have had a dome. They originally intended to be in a building like below but later forsook the roof (and cost) before the first concept design came out.

[thurmas]

So if the cost of the grandstand in Ottawa is what $120 million for 11,000 seats and 900 standing room? I am guessing a full 22 or 23 k seat bare bones stadium in Halifax would be around 250 to 275 million when you include turf, club offices score board and dressing room?

[elly63]

Originally Posted by thurmas

So if the cost of the grandstand in Ottawa is what $120 million for 11,000 seats and 900 standing room? I am guessing a full 22 or 23 k seat bare bones stadium in Halifax would be around 250 to 275 million when you include turf, club offices score board and dressing room?

Which was the point I was trying to make at the time against the posting of costs 2-3x larger. Regina built a 33k stadium with a roof for $310 million, factor in inflation...

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by elly63

I believe those conversations were about building new stadiums in Canada, certainly not 80k

Who's talking about $800 million stadiums in Canada?

I'm sure the people of Winnipeg will be happy to hear that. Non visionary would be my definition of renovating the Civic Centre and stands handcuffing them for another 50 years.

I'm sure the people of Winnipeg know that their City can sometimes lack vision. The debate around reopening Portage and Main to pedestrians, BRT over LRT. It's nothing new. Their stadium though, beauty.

Ottawa's not a visionary City either, building undersized infra like a low-floor LRT metro, the smallest Convention Centre of the top 8 Canadian cities and a joint LAC-Main Branch library smaller than Calgary's.

If we're going to build new bare bones sports facilities at Lansdowne, I think it would have been worth exploring the renovation of the existing complex that at least has interesting architecture and history.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

If we're going to build new bare bones sports facilities at Lansdowne, I think it would have been worth exploring the renovation of the existing complex that at least has interesting architecture and history.

If they had a hard enough time getting through the NIMBYs years ago what would adding another $200 million to their attitude back then do? It wouldn't have been approved and Ottawa would have no decent stadium at all.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by elly63

??? SkyDome, Olympic Stadium, Mosaic, IGF, BC Place

Skydome and the big O for its time. 200 years ago... yeah okay....

BC Place is/was meh

IGF/Mosiac are both a shadow of what they were supposed to and should be

Tim hortons feild,BMO,TD place, Saputo, mcmahan....commonwealth (sorta) and....every baseball stadium in history. Not to mention Ivorwyne,cannad, mosaic 1.0 ect ect ect. For every example you give me, ill give you 2-3 Stadiums in this country are meh. Our elites barley hold a candle to most high school stadiums in the US.

Rogers centre is the only standout and that doesnt even feel right leaving my mouth

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

Stadiums in this country are meh. Our elites barley hold a candle to most high school stadiums in the US.

You know, putting a cartoon after a bullshit statement doesn't make it right.

Remember this

$60 Million Texas High School Stadium Deemed Unsafe for Football
A Texas high school said Tuesday that its state champion football team will have to play its home schedule elsewhere.
nbcnews.com May 20, 2014

One of the most expensive high school football stadiums in America — a $60 million behemoth in Texas — will be closed this fall because the concrete is cracking, and a report commissioned by the school district says it may not have been designed to code.

The facility, Eagle Stadium at Allen High School, home of the state champions, opened to fanfare in 2012 but has been closed since February because of cracks in the concourse. The school already had to move graduation.