Highways in Canada - Page 423

Innsertnamehere · #**8441** Posted **Aug 7, 2020, 1:43 PM**

same with 11/17 between Thunder Bay and Nipigon.

Acajack · #**8442** Posted **Aug 7, 2020, 1:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavefromSt.Vital

Highway 17 from Sault Ste. Marie SE to 548 is twinned four lanes but mostly at grade intersections.

Thanks. That's about 10 km or so?

Dengler Avenue · #**8443** Posted **Aug 7, 2020, 2:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Thanks. That's about 10 km or so?

26.4 km

wave46 · #**8444** Posted **Aug 7, 2020, 3:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Undivided, but with rumble strips, 4 laned highways for 11, 17 and a few others would be a great start. At cross roads, bump it out a bit, put in barriers and full lanes for deceleration and acceleration.

You could do a poor man's 2+1 to start - adding passing lanes on sections in alternating directions every 5-10km. They did that on Highway 69 south in the early 2000s. People are less prone to pass recklessly when they know a passing lane is coming up.

Obviously, you'd do it in the sections with the highest volumes first.

The biggest problem would be structures that would need to be widened. I'd imagine the MTO would phase the improvements to time with structure replacement/rehab as well.

The most recent example I can think of would the the new passing lanes just west of Sturgeon Falls.

urbandreamer · #**8445** Posted **Aug 7, 2020, 4:04 PM**

Yesterday I took the 401 during "rush hour" from KW to Toronto: normally it takes 1'10" but there was a slow area due to construction. Yes it was very busy with much more commuter and truck traffic but even so it took only 10 minutes longer. Stay in the fast lane folks (rush hour traffic was moving 120kph-130kph minus the slowdown through Mississauga), you'll get through the GTA quicker even in worst case scenarios; or take that 427/Eglinton/Caledonia/Lawrence to Avenue Rd or Bayview alternative I mentioned.

Acajack · #**8446** Posted **Aug 7, 2020, 4:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

26.4 km

Thanks, longer than I thought.

Under normal circumstances (ie if Canada had a comprehensive national highway program) roads like Highway 17 from Sault Ste. Marie-Sudbury-North Bay-Mattawa should be at a minimum four-lane undivided with a central rumble strip.

Non-Interstate state or U.S. highways with similar functions and traffic even in the north-central U.S. are typically built to at least that standard.

Route 117 between Rouyn-Noranda and Val-d'Or should or would also be like that.

Innsertnamehere · #**8447** Posted **Aug 7, 2020, 4:56 PM**

MTO is slowly building out about 100km of dual carriageway highway with at grade intersections from Thunder Bay to Nipigon.

MTO Completed the EA for twinning 17 from North Bay to Mattawa a few years ago and I believe they did it as a 400 series freeway, with the intention of it being an eventual 417 extension.

I honestly think it's a little overkill to do 400 series past Petawawa, but I guess I get it. My guess is that MTO super long term wants to see the 417 run to Sudbury and meet the 400 there, with 17 continuing as a dual carriageway at grade road past there out to Sault Ste Marie.

The other problem is that for a lot of trips it's often faster to go through the US. Highway 11/17 are a lot emptier than they would otherwise be because as soon as you hit Winnipeg it's significantly faster to cut through the US if you are coming from Southern Ontario. Even when coming from Montreal it's faster to cut through upstate Michigan and Duluth than to take 17.

Dengler Avenue · #**8448** Posted **Aug 7, 2020, 5:20 PM**

Actually MTO intends to take 417 as far out as SSM. In our lifetime? I won't hold my breath.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=11qPd7-lLyG1jFj9N6y9ioaWMABkC1Mj0&usp=sharing
I've been trying to "recover" the planning between Denlou and Desbarats, which commenced in 2011 yet which apparently never came to fruition past Espanola...

esquire · #**8449** Posted **Aug 7, 2020, 5:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

The other problem is that for a lot of trips it's often faster to go through the US. Highway 11/17 are a lot emptier than they would otherwise be because as soon as you hit Winnipeg it's significantly faster to cut through the US if you are coming from Southern Ontario. Even when coming from Montreal it's faster to cut through upstate Michigan and Duluth than to take 17.

I suspect that awareness of the time advantage by taking US routes has grown with Google Maps. 20 years ago when my friends drove out to Ontario or Quebec for whatever reason it was almost always via the TCH... I'm not sure that would be the case these days... well, at least up until March of this year.

MonctonRad · #**8450** Posted **Aug 7, 2020, 5:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

I suspect that awareness of the time advantage by taking US routes has grown with Google Maps. 20 years ago when my friends drove out to Ontario or Quebec for whatever reason it was almost always via the TCH... I'm not sure that would be the case these days... well, at least up until March of this year.

Working against the US routing at present is the COVID pandemic and anti-Trumpian Canadian nationalism.

Andy6 · #**8451** Posted **Aug 7, 2020, 5:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Thanks, longer than I thought.

Under normal circumstances (ie if Canada had a comprehensive national highway program) roads like Highway 17 from Sault Ste. Marie-Sudbury-North Bay-Mattawa should be at a minimum four-lane undivided with a central rumble strip.

That was promised in the 1970s but it never happened as northern Ontario lost its influence with Queen's Park due to the population explosion in Toronto. Another thing would probably be NAFTA, which put the focus on Ontario-U.S. trade ahead of internal Canadian trade and the highways that serve it (or fail to in this case).

Djeffery · #**8452** Posted **Aug 7, 2020, 8:05 PM**

Maybe because of my location in relation to Michigan, but even back to the 80's when I was a kid, everyone went through the US to go anywhere west of SSM. Either up to SSM for northern Ontario or out through the western US depending where in western Canada you are going. Even now, pandemic restrictions aside, I don't personally know anyone who avoids the US as a transit because of Trump. The only people I knew who went out through Canada was because they weren't allowed to cross the border lol.

wave46 · #**8453** Posted **Aug 8, 2020, 2:27 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Maybe because of my location in relation to Michigan, but even back to the 80's when I was a kid, everyone went through the US to go anywhere west of SSM. Either up to SSM for northern Ontario or out through the western US depending where in western Canada you are going. Even now, pandemic restrictions aside, I don't personally know anyone who avoids the US as a transit because of Trump. The only people I knew who went out through Canada was because they weren't allowed to cross the border lol.

In the '80s, you didn't need a passport to cross the border. A driver's licence sufficed. That's not true today.

I did the out West trip and went through Canada. I'm glad I did - 17 is a very pretty drive when it hugs the Lake Superior shoreline. Highway 11, um, less pretty.

That being said, there is the advantages of cheaper fuel, a more direct route and more to see (mainly Mount Rushmore), so I guess that's something. However, one doesn't get onto Interstate Highways from the Sault until Eau Claire, WI, so there's still 750km of gap there.

If I was a trucker coming from Southern Ontario, without a doubt the US is by far the easier drive. Is that traffic worth chasing? Probably not, because even with 4 lanes in Canada, the US is the more direct route.

lio45 · #**8454** Posted **Aug 8, 2020, 2:48 AM**

17 when I did it was pretty foggy, I could barely see Lake Superior. I actually regretted not taking the 11.

This year, I crossed Canada twice. My two first times not passing through the US. Can't say I didn't like the experience, but it's a lot longer and less user-friendly (as well as less safe, and more expensive).

(Unlike wave46's starting point, for me if I go through the USA every single kilometer of Sherbrooke-Vancouver is on an Interstate-caliber full controlled access divided freeway.)

sonysnob · #**8455** Posted **Aug 8, 2020, 4:40 PM**

Another new road video from me, this time the Okanagan Connector Highway in British Columbia:

• Video Link

Dengler Avenue · #**8456** Posted **Aug 8, 2020, 4:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonysnob

Another new road video from me, this time the Okanagan Connector Highway in British Columbia:

• Video Link

So you really are Ashpalt Planet.

My friend showed me this when we were video-chatting last night. He said your videos were very HD.

sonysnob · #**8457** Posted **Aug 8, 2020, 5:01 PM**

^ Thanks, I do my best.

This footage has a bit more vibration than I wish it did, but oh well.

MonctonRad · #**8458** Posted **Aug 8, 2020, 5:01 PM**

I also didn't realize you were Asphalt Planet.

Both you and Freeway Franks do quality work!

It's great to see that you are both active SSP contributes too. I do some Wikipedia editing on the side myself (although I am not as active there right now as I used to be)...........

Dengler Avenue · #**8459** Posted **Aug 8, 2020, 5:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I also didn't realize you were Asphalt Planet.

Both you and Freeway Franks do quality work!

It's great to see that you are both active SSP contributes too. I do some Wikipedia editing on the side myself (although I am not as active there right now as I used to be)...........

Don’t forget EasternFreeway too though he’s probably more active in the Quebec section.

FrAnKs · #**8460** Posted **Aug 8, 2020, 5:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I also didn't realize you were Asphalt Planet.

Both you and Freeway Franks do quality work!

It's great to see that you are both active SSP contributes too. I do some Wikipedia editing on the side myself (although I am not as active there right now as I used to be)...........

Thank you! Even if tho...I am taking a one year break from making road videos at the moment but I am definitely not giving up lol. My one year break *should* end in November

I can't believe I've been a member of Skyscraperpage since 2005 already! :O