Public Disorder & the Decline of Vancouver's Livability

[Migrant_Coconut]

Of all the bad luck and bad choices in a junkie's life, "not listening to a one-hour rant about the gays every week" has to be one of the least influential in how they turned out.

[Phil McAvity]

Originally Posted by logan5

Holy christ, this is so arrogant. You do not need to go to church to get a proper blueprint for living. The most secular countries are doing pretty good.

I just detest religion and all the evil it has committed. Society is better off without it.

Religion does enormous good for humanity between feeding and clothing the poor to giving direction to billions of others. Religions teach people to be kind, honest, thoughtful, loving, look after your family and work hard, what could possibly be wrong with those messages? Just because you have issues with religion doesn't mean it isn't an overwhelmingly good thing but all you see are the negatives which is sad but the negatives are vastly outweighed by all the good it brings

Why do you only see the negative aspects?

What provides a better blueprint for living than religion?

Also, give me an example of some of these secular countries that are doing well

[giallo]

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

Also, give me an example of some of these secular countries that are doing well

If your example of a secular country "doing well" is one that's extremely safe with little-to-no homelessness, drug addiction, and a very low crime rate, there's this little country across the pond called China.

[CivicBlues]

Not to mention basically ALL Northern European Countries from Iceland to France, the Czech Republic. Practically most 1st world countries ARE secular.

I think the CE forum is leaking...

[Phil McAvity]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

I think the CE forum is leaking...

On the contrary what i've done is get to the root causes of these problems because that's the only way to solve them however at this site the lucid are few and far between which is why I rarely get answers to my questions

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Of all the bad luck and bad choices in a junkie's life, "not listening to a one-hour rant about the gays every week" has to be one of the least influential in how they turned out.

Huh? What are you talking about?

Originally Posted by giallo

If your example of a secular country "doing well" is one that's extremely safe with little-to-no homelessness, drug addiction, and a very low crime rate, there's this little country across the pond called China.

Giallo, I never said secular countries are doing well, if anything I implied the opposite, try to follow along

Originally Posted by logan5

The most secular countries are doing pretty good.

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

Also, give me an example of some of these secular countries that are doing well

I'm still waiting for links to proof but good luck with that as there are no truly secular countries, religion is everywhere (except for this website)

Just last night I encountered a passed out woman in my driveway which undoubtedly was drug-related and I don't even live in Vancouver I live in Victoria so keep up the great work lefties/progressives. Oh the irony of "progressive"

[giallo]

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

HGiallo, I never said secular countries are doing well, if anything I implied the opposite, try to follow along.

So what's your opinion on China then? It's absolutely a secular country, and by your metric of doing well (low crime, no homelessness, next to no drug abuse), it's picture perfect.

The world's largest country proves your bizarre notion wrong.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

Huh? What are you talking about?

What are you talking about? Church can just as easily be used for evil; not all virtuous people are Christian, and vice versa. It sure hasn't stopped Texas or Alberta from racking up their own share of problems.

More to the point, exactly how does one embracing JC as their personal saviour allow them to to afford a home?

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by giallo

^Just look at the living hell that Scandinavia is......oh, wait.

Well, it is the tax season there right now, so I can tell you that many people would use those exact words there while filing their reports...

[Phil McAvity]

Originally Posted by giallo

So what's your opinion on China then? It's absolutely a secular country, and by your metric of doing well (low crime, no homelessness, next to no drug abuse), it's picture perfect.

The world's largest country proves your bizarre notion wrong.

I've never even been to China let alone lived there so I can't say but i'm pretty sure Canada is nicer

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

What are you talking about? Church can just as easily be used for evil; not all virtuous people are Christian, and vice versa. It sure hasn't stopped Texas or Alberta from racking up their own share of problems.

More to the point, exactly how does one embracing JC as their personal saviour allow them to to afford a home?

it sounds like you would do well to spend time in the presence of a mental health professional because you're not making sense

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

it sounds like you would do well to spend time in the presence of a mental health professional because you're not making sense

Look who's talking. I'm not the one insisting that church attendance automatically prevents homelessness, crime, mental health issues and drug addiction (and despite all the counterexamples); shouldn't you be telling me to see a pastor instead?

[Phil McAvity]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Look who's talking. I'm not the one insisting that church attendance automatically prevents homelessness, crime, mental health issues and drug addiction (and despite all the counterexamples); shouldn't you be telling me to see a pastor instead?

I never said that, I said dropping church attendance is a contributing factor to social problems after trauma and single-parenthood (both of which are bigger factors) so maybe you should try paying attention to what I actually wrote

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

I never said that, I said dropping church attendance is a contributing factor to social problems after trauma and single-parenthood (both of which are bigger factors) so maybe you should try paying attention to what I actually wrote

Your first list wasn't ranked. And being unable to afford a home (the biggest basic need after water and food) somehow doesn't contribute to trauma? Please.

As for single-parent families, I can personally guarantee that having both parents in one's life at the same time can been worse for mental health.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

Religion does enormous good for humanity between feeding and clothing the poor to giving direction to billions of others. Religions teach people to be kind, honest, thoughtful, loving, look after your family and work hard, what could possibly be wrong with those messages? Just because you have issues with religion doesn't mean it isn't an overwhelmingly good thing but all you see are the negatives which is sad but the negatives are vastly outweighed by all the good it brings

Why do you only see the negative aspects?

What provides a better blueprint for living than religion?

Also, give me an example of some of these secular countries that are doing well

How many lives have been ruined by the church diddling children and covering it up for decades or longer?

[Cypherus]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

How many lives have been ruined by the church diddling children and covering it up for decades or longer?

How many lives were ruined by the systems created by secularism, capitalism, social media, communism, and humanism, to name a few? Many examples are there to support lives being ruined under such constructs, and all worthy of criticism. But these arguments are baseless, because you can always find something to cherry pick that represents the worst aspects of a organization, thing, or system, then make a sweeping generalization that the whole thing is just bad.

[Cypherus]

Originally Posted by logan5

I just detest religion and all the evil it has committed. Society is better off without it.

Some people just like to join a movement to criticize and tear down a system so they can enjoy their new found group identity online with like minded individuals, and give themselves a purpose. However, religion offers the same group identity or cult like fellowship. Religion may now just have a bad hangover in today's modern times when other prevailing issues are important to people, such as politics, cost of living, diversity and equality, etc.

[Phil McAvity]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Your first list wasn't ranked. And being unable to afford a home (the biggest basic need after water and food) somehow doesn't contribute to trauma? Please.

As for single-parent families, I can personally guarantee that having both parents in one's life at the same time can been worse for mental health.

So you think the kind of trauma inflicted on kids like sexual abuse, alcoholism, neglect, drug abuse, physical and emotional abuse is right up there with the parents renting rather than owning their own home? Do you even hear yourself?

Also, I never said there aren't dysfunctional two-parent families because of course there are, I was talking about the data that clearly indicates that children raised by two parents fare better in life than those raised by one parent. Just as there are happy, succesful people raised by one parent but the evidence is clear that two parent families are better for kids. It's called a "generalization" based on social science data

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

How many lives have been ruined by the church diddling children and covering it up for decades or longer?

Sadly, i'm sure it's been going on for a lot longer than decades. Atheists often bring this up and it's true, religions have committed all manner of terrible acts over the years, perhaps none more despicable than simply moving priests accused of sexual abuse from one parish to another to let them carry on in their despicable behavior because the Catholic Church thinks it's above the law and doesn't want the bad PR but those men should have been held accountable all along for their deeds however when weighed against all the good the church has done (which atheists never factor in to the equation) from providing food, shelter and clothing, as well as emotional and spiritual guidance to vast numbers of people i'm pretty sure it's of net benefit to society that they continue

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

Soaring divorce rates and the rise of single-parenthood which has been disastrous, all the data shows clearly that the ethos of feminism has been responsible for both of these social disasters

You're a funny guy.

The divorce rates have been falling for over 30 years. It's almost like social pressure forcing people to marry in their early 20s made for a whole bunch of disfunction marriages, and pressure to stay together made for miserable people.


https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/220309/cg-a001-eng.htm

Stats can says 1987.

I'd suggest that you're 30 years out of date, but I think that's probably missing a zero on the end.

[Phil McAvity]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

You're a funny guy.

The divorce rates have been falling for over 30 years. It's almost like social pressure forcing people to marry in their early 20s made for a whole bunch of disfunction marriages, and pressure to stay together made for miserable people.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/220309/cg-a001-eng.htm

Stats can says 1987.

I'd suggest that you're 30 years out of date, but I think that's probably missing a zero on the end.

I stand corrected, the divorce rate has been dropping which really surprised me because I'd heard repeatedly that it had risen. I really thought this generation were not only getting married less but getting divorced more but thats not true, the divorce rate has been dropping for decades. At least you weren't as vitriolic as many of the others here but yeah I fucked up so I really can't blame feminism for this. It's almost like research pays off

[Migrant_Coconut]

Welcome to the internet. Sweeping generalizations and abrasiveness often get returned in kind.

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

So you think the kind of trauma inflicted on kids like sexual abuse, alcoholism, neglect, drug abuse, physical and emotional abuse is right up there with the parents renting rather than owning their own home? Do you even hear yourself?

Also, I never said there aren't dysfunctional two-parent families because of course there are, I was talking about the data that clearly indicates that children raised by two parents fare better in life than those raised by one parent. Just as there are happy, succesful people raised by one parent but the evidence is clear that two parent families are better for kids. It's called a "generalization" based on social science data

I could ask the same. So you think the risk of losing the roof over one's head doesn't add to existing childhood problems? Or that the same problem as an adult (if not outright homelessness) doesn't impair one's ability to process them and move on? The amount of violent crimes and ODs downtown that're coming from fixed addresses with secure rent... is pretty minimal.

Research on families is still a work-in-progress; depending on which study you look at, single-parent kids do slightly better, nuclear kids do slightly better, or there's no difference whatsoever.

[Phil McAvity]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Welcome to the internet. Sweeping generalizations and abrasiveness often get returned in kind.

Nope, people are often ornery without any prompting on the internet particularly when you make a mistake, their self-righteousness comes out of nowhere yet in person people are almost never like that

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I could ask the same. So you think the risk of losing the roof over one's head doesn't add to existing childhood problems? Or that the same problem as an adult (if not outright homelessness) doesn't impair one's ability to process them and move on? The amount of violent crimes and ODs downtown that're coming from fixed addresses with secure rent... is pretty minimal.

One can just as easily be evicted in a nice place as one can from an SRO on the DTES so you don't know what you're talking about. A couple of times my kids had to move with my ex from perfectly nice houses in perfectly nice neighborhoods because the owner decided to sell the house they were renting. I've lived in the DTES and never had a problem like that

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Research on families is still a work-in-progress; depending on which study you look at, single-parent kids do slightly better, nuclear kids do slightly better, or there's no difference whatsoever.

Show me one study that shows children raised by single-parents fare better than children raised by two