Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[Marshal]

Originally Posted by esquire

Yes, I didn't mean to suggest that the stadium itself wasn't paid for. It's just that it was paid for with taxes as opposed to operating profits.

My comment was in response to Acajack's remark about the stadium's profitability... it could only be regarded as a profitable enterprise if you overlook the massive taxpayer hit to get the complex built in the first place.

Sure, I agree. But we can't talk about the big O like any other stadium. The level of corruption and mismanagement, and of course a budget tied to the Olympics that had no end, was all beyond ridiculous. The true cost of that stadium will never be known, but we do know the amount paid out has no relation to the end product. At the scale of the overall Olympic fiasco, there is probably no other project in Canada that comes close. The big O goes way beyond white elephant status.

I do like the stadium though, well at least the exterior architecture. It was OK for the Expos, but never had a good feel to it. I even saw a game with the roof open. Under the permanent roofs, the atmosphere has become less good. It is shocking how different BCPlace feels after the new roof. The old roof was oppressive and I think the stadium had a worse feel than the Big O. So there is always hope that it could finally become a great stadium with the right retrofit. Then again, the BCPlace reno cost more than many stadiums, and a Big O reno would probably be even more.

[logan5]

Re BC Place. The lighting makes for a more interesting effect at night, but ultimately the goal was to make the stadium feel more open air, which the open roof does. I would go a step further though and remove those LED clerestory panels. This would open up the stadium imo just as much as the retractable roof. Those panels are huge. And grow natural grass. The Whitecaps are hindered because top players from other leagues won't play on artificial turf.

[cjones2451]

Originally Posted by logan5

Re BC Place. The lighting makes for a more interesting effect at night, but ultimately the goal was to make the stadium feel more open air, which the open roof does. I would go a step further though and remove those LED clerestory panels. This would open up the stadium imo just as much as the retractable roof. Those panels are huge. And grow natural grass. The Whitecaps are hindered because top players from other leagues won't play on artificial turf.

BC Place is more than just a sports stadium, with trade shows, concerts etc, so even if they could grow grass inside, it would not make economical sense.
Besides Kaka, Clint Dempsey, Nicolas Lodeiro, etc. are playing on turf for the right money. I just don't think the 'Caps want to spend that kind of money on a Designated Player.

[Brizzy82]

IGF


source

[logan5]

Originally Posted by cjones2451

BC Place is more than just a sports stadium...

Yup. Which is too bad. One of the best soccer markets in Canada/US and we are forced tp play in a second rate stadium. I hope that 30 000 seat waterfront stadium will eventually be built, then BC Place can hold conventions and trade shows 365 days a year. Yay.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Paying for the capital costs of the Olympic facilities was mostly borne by taxpayers across Quebec.

More specifically, by smokers across Quebec, via a special tax on cigarettes. Oddly enough, it was brought up by a guy I was talking to last night in a bar. He mentioned that the cigarette tax was to pay for the Big O, but even though the Big O is paid off, the tax has remained.

Not meaning to to deflect from your statement, but all of Canada did participate in paying off the debt too.

Under s10 of the Olympic (1976) Act, passed in 1973, the Organizing Committee of the 1976 Olympic Games, a Québec corporation, was authorized to run a lottery scheme to raise money for the 1976 Olympic Games in Montréal and was allowed to sell tickets in any province where the government of that province agreed, provided that the proceeds were used to provide financial assistance for the Olympics and for the development of amateur sport in the participating provinces. In the 9 draws between 1973 and 1976, $230 million was raised for the Olympics, $25 million for the provinces and $190 million was awarded in prizes.
Loto-Canada Inc, a federal crown corporation, was established in 1976 to raise money through lotteries to help Québec pay for its Olympic deficit. This lottery was strongly opposed by the provinces which regarded lotteries as their exclusive field of operation.

Under a 1979 agreement, Loto-Canada Inc was wound up by the federal government in return for the payment by the 10 provincial governments quarterly to the federal government of $6 million, adjusted according to the Consumer Price Index; 82.5% of the profit of Loto-Canada had gone to the Olympic debt, 12.5% to the provinces, and 5% to the federal government in support of programs in fitness and amateur sport, recreation, the arts and culture.

And the debt was formally "retired" at the end of 2006.
Quebec's Big Owe stadium debt is over
And to support Acajack's point

Much of the debt was serviced through a special tax on tobacco.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by logan5

Yup. Which is too bad. One of the best soccer markets in Canada/US and we are forced tp play in a second rate stadium. I hope that 30 000 seat waterfront stadium will eventually be built, then BC Place can hold conventions and trade shows 365 days a year. Yay.

It's better than most of the MLS stadiums that currently exist so I guess that makes them 3rd-rate stadiums?

[Migs]

Originally Posted by StealthGirl

YQR Stadium Build ‏@YQRstadium 48m48 minutes ago
The 121ft wide primary videoboard in the south end of the stadium is massive. Largest in 🇨🇦. Gonna be great. #CFL #yqrstadium #Riders #yqr

@YQRstadium

[blueandgoldguy]

Is the Mosaic board the largest square footage in Canada or is the one (or should I say two) board in BC Place slightly bigger?

[SaskScraper]

So its official, last football game ever to be played at Old Mosaic Stadium was yesterday, Saturday Nov 5th 2016 between Regina Rams and UBC thunderbirds

http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/801975363831/





For video of the last Rider game at Old Mosaic here is the game from last week..

• Video Link

[red-paladin]

Originally Posted by logan5

Yup. Which is too bad. One of the best soccer markets in Canada/US and we are forced tp play in a second rate stadium. I hope that 30 000 seat waterfront stadium will eventually be built, then BC Place can hold conventions and trade shows 365 days a year. Yay.

LOL!

BC Place is first rate. It's the whitecaps that are second rate.

I hope we never waste prime downtown property on a soccer specific stadium. That proposal was roundly hated by everyone and is dead in the water. I'll continue to write letters to city hall against that one if it's proposed again.

[Marshal]

If 'having' to play in BCPlace is a complaint, you live in a wonderful world.
I actually think the LED ring is critical to the success of the new roof: a very large amount of light comes in through them, and the partial visibility of the city outside. They brighten and spatially expand the experience as much as the actual roof/opening. The lighting effects further their value considerably.

[esquire]

I'd imagine that the only real knocks on BC Place from a soccer fan's perspective is the lack of all-important natural turf and the fact that it's oversized relative to typical MLS attendances in Vancouver (the same issue the Lions have dealt with pretty well since the beginning with BC Place). They're legitimate issues but the Whitecaps would probably be walking into a bunch of other issues just to fix those two.

[elly63]

Secret briefing books link CalgaryNext and Olympics bid, despite official denials
Drawing including the Olympic rings, winter sports banners makes link to 2026 Games bid
Scott Dippel, CBC News Nov 13, 2016


Briefing books obtained by CBC News include detailed drawings of the CalgaryNext project incorporating the Olympics logo. (Scott Dippel/CBC)

If the briefing books the Calgary Sports and Entertainment Corporation (CSEC) has given to city council are any indication, the owners of this city's top sports teams have already put a lot of work into the megaproject they call CalgaryNext.

An awful lot of work.

CBC News has obtained drawings of the arena/stadium/fieldhouse complex that Calgarians didn't get to see at the council meeting in June.

They show a precise level of detail. Right down to where the coaches' offices will be located. How many washrooms are needed. Where the restaurants will be placed.

The documents leave the impression that the owners of the Flames and Stampeders didn't just pay an architectural firm for a few conceptual drawings.

No. This is clearly what they want to build.


Briefing books obtained by CBC News show detailing drawings of CalgaryNext facility. They include precise locations of many amenities, including locker rooms, owners' luxury box and washrooms. (Scott Dippel/CBC)

And while it's a detailed glimpse of what Calgary's future sports facilities could look like, there's also one image which raises so many more questions.

It's the one that shows the Olympic rings on the wall and banners hanging from the roof which display winter Olympic sports like bobsleigh, skiing and speedskating.

So far, everyone with the city and CSEC have said the Olympics and CalgaryNext are not linked. The picture shows either something else or a whimsical glimpse of some future 'maybe' if a bunch of planets align.

When the last CalgaryNext discussion happened at city council in June — a mere week after the city plunked down $5 million to explore a potential bid for the 2026 Winter Olympics — the mayor was asked about the connections between the two sports mega-projects.

'Just a coincidence'

"It's just a coincidence that it's happening at the same time. But the Olympic discussion is so far behind this discussion that it doesn't make any sense to tie them together," said the mayor.

"Clearly if you were going to go forward with an Olympic bid, you'd need more facilities. But whether those facilities look like CalgaryNext... you certainly don't need a new stadium, so it's a very different question."

The head of CSEC, Ken King, said something similar in April.

"Our project is a bonus to a bid, as opposed to a bid necessarily being a bonus to our project," said King.

It's worth noting that King is also a member of the board for the Calgary Sport Tourism Authority, the group that pitched city council on spending $5 million to explore an Olympic bid.

Coun. Druh Farrell voted against exploring an Olympics bid. To her mind, the two sports ventures are joined at the hip.

"How it's being discussed is CalgaryNext is associated with the Olympic bid, so I think we're past that point of saying it's not linked," said Farrell. "They clearly are linked."

Whether one believes CalgaryNext will cost $1.8 billion as the city estimates or $1.3 billion as CSEC believes, such a project will undoubtedly bring Calgary's sports facilities into the 21st century.

While a study is expected at city council in the new year on what's known as Plan B (possibly building a new arena at Stampede Park and renovating McMahon Stadium), the drawings for CSEC's Plan A can be tantalizing for some.

It's just that currently, there's not enough money to actually build it.

[esquire]

^ I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around the Stampeders playing in what essentially amounts to a super-Butterdome. This proposed design just doesn't inspire much confidence.

How can a city like Calgary not have the means to build a proper football stadium?

[elly63]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around the Stampeders playing in what essentially amounts to a super-Butterdome. This proposed design just doesn't inspire much confidence.

How can a city like Calgary not have the means to build a proper football stadium?

To be fair we don't know that yet. Advanced as these drawings are reported to be, anyone who follows stadium developments in this country knows that it takes about eight years from first concept to finished product. And that finished project usually doesn't look like what was first speculated.

Maybe I'm a glass half full kinda guy but I have yet to be disappointed by any new (refurb) Canadian stadium build yet. I think anyone being honest would admit Hamilton turned out better than what most had bitched about, especially considering the small budget.

[esquire]

^ The designs usually don't change on a totally fundamental level, though.

[elly63]

^Yes but I think people were more receptive to this



than this

[FFX-ME]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around the Stampeders playing in what essentially amounts to a super-Butterdome. This proposed design just doesn't inspire much confidence.

How can a city like Calgary not have the means to build a proper football stadium?

Cities shouldn't pay for stadiums, period, even if they have the means. This is not a civic need worth spending taxpayer dollars for, these are facilities that will profit the stampeders and flames. Let them fund it.

[esquire]

^ I don't mean that it should be publicly funded, I mean "the city" in the broader sense.