Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[Peter North]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

BC Place's atmosphere isn't bad because it's too big, it's because Vancouver fans are generally quieter and sit on their hands for all but the most intense moments of a game. I can tell you that big games with 35,000 people in the stands have plenty of atmosphere and the empty seats don't make much of an impact. I'm sure Commonwealth is the same. I hate this defeatist attitude to our stadiums.

There is a direct correlation between attendance (% capacity) and atmosphere. It applies in-person as well as on TV. It's not rocket science and it's certainly nothing to get all butthurt about. I hate this apologist attitude about our stadiums.

[Acajack]

Nobody had an issue with the Big O in the late 70s when the Alouettes averaged over 50,000 a game, or in the early 80s when the Expos average was just under 30,000 per game.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Peter North

There is a direct correlation between attendance (% capacity) and atmosphere. It applies in-person as well as on TV. It's not rocket science and it's certainly nothing to get all butthurt about. I hate this apologist attitude about our stadiums.

Whether 25,000 people are quiet in a 25,000 seat stadium or a 50,000 seat stadium, it's still quiet. Of course a large number of empty seats may dampen the mood, but I've just never found it as toxic as many people say. There are certainly bigger factors.

[Peter North]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Whether 25,000 people are quiet in a 25,000 seat stadium or a 50,000 seat stadium, it's still quiet. Of course a large number of empty seats may dampen the mood, but I've just never found it as toxic as many people say. There are certainly bigger factors.

There's a visual factor involved too you know. The sight of a packed house contributes to the atmosphere. By your logic, an empty venue with crown noise pumped in through the PA system would be a great fan experience.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Barnes

I used to work for the Expos and can't recall a ball hitting the roof. It's probably happened but it wasn't am epidemic. Speakers off a foul occasionally and Henry Rodriguez and Darryl Strawberry have both hit homers off the concrete ring.

Dave Kingman hit the first one off the ring but the umps didn't know what to do so they called it foul. That instigated the orange foul lines on the rim and this later led to Strawberry's homer being ruled fair.

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[Oilkountry]

The big o is big enough to build a stadium inside the stadium> what they need to do is reconfigure the stands if possible. That doesn't come cheap but man could that stadium be something at an intiment 40,000 seats

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

The big o is big enough to build a stadium inside the stadium> what they need to do is reconfigure the stands if possible. That doesn't come cheap but man could that stadium be something at an intiment 40,000 seats

That would actually be an interesting redevelopment, building a smaller stadium inside the shell of the old one. Has something like that ever been done before?

[elly63]

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

That would actually be an interesting redevelopment, building a smaller stadium inside the shell of the old one. Has something like that ever been done before?

Sort of (Red Bull Arena Leipzig).

In 1956, the first Zentralstadion (Leipzig, Germany) opened, at the time it was one of the biggest stadiums in Europe being able to hold 100,000 spectators.

However, over the years it fell into disuse and was costing the city too much to maintain. In 1997, the city decided to build a new stadium within the old stadium, a modern state of the art stadium only for soccer.

The new stadium was built from December 2000 till March 2004.



A similar endeavor of constructing a new stadium within the confines of an historic stadium's exterior was completed in Chicago's Soldier Field, which similarly build a modern stadium while persevering the exterior of the original structure.

[elly63]

I imagine a downsizing of Olympic Stadium could be done but to what end? Who would be the tenant? The usefulness of the Big O is for large events that can't be staged at Saputo or Molson.

I think the first thing they have to do is get the roof done so they can hold some events throughout the winter and generate some more revenue. If they did a major overhaul I don't know if that would affect a newly installed roof or leave it vulnerable to damage or if needed cranes would be too high.

The only real use I see is along the lines of the fieldhouse complex like Calgary has planned, with the Als as a tenant. There seems to be a lot of dead ends to whatever road you travel with this project.

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by elly63

I imagine a downsizing of Olympic Stadium could be done but to what end? Who would be the tenant? The usefulness of the Big O is for large events that can't be staged at Saputo or Molson.

I think the first thing they have to do is get the roof done so they can hold some events throughout the winter and generate some more revenue. If they did a major overhaul I don't know if that would affect a newly installed roof or leave it vulnerable to damage or if needed cranes would be too high.

The only real use I see is along the lines of the fieldhouse complex like Calgary has planned, with the Als as a tenant. There seems to be a lot of dead ends to whatever road you travel with this project.

I suppose the reasoning behind downsizing it is that the Als and Impact will be more likely to hold events there if the stadium isn't such a dead, 2/3 empty cavern. There's a big difference in atmosphere when a 40,000 stadium is half full compared to a 60,000 being a third full.

Adding a fieldhouse element to Olympic would kill any hope of the stadium being a good host to any sporting event. It looked bad for Calgary and it would be bad for Montreal.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

Adding a fieldhouse element to Olympic would kill any hope of the stadium being a good host to any sporting event. It looked bad for Calgary and it would be bad for Montreal.

Why is that?

[thurmas]

The Big O might be the most confounding stadium ever built. Too expensive, too unique a design and iconic to the city to tear down. Too expensive to rebuild. Too large to host a CFL, MLB or MLS franchise on a full time basis. The only thing that may make long term sense is in 10-20 years the Impact and Alouettes team up and expand Stade Saputo similar to BMO field or team up and build a new 25,000-30,000 seat downtown stadium for say around $250 million. Long term Molson stadium will not work for the Alouettes when you have the New Mosaic, IGF, BMO, TD and Tim Hortons field with many more club suites,end zone party lounges and more comfortable seating capable of generating much more revenue for their respective CFL teams.

[elly63]

Agreed with everything except the Als and Impact teaming up, don't think that one will happen.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Berklon

Even with a packed house, the atmosphere for football, soccer and baseball is horrible. It's just not worth saving.

Like others have said, I don't agree with that statement. Been to the Big O on several occasions, for baseball, soccer etc. The atmosphere is fine when the stadium is packed !

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by elly63

Why is that?

This is why:



I don't think the rendering you posted is a realistic example of what the stadium would look like (it lacks the track, for instance; the photo I posted is old but it is still on the CalgaryNext website as an example of the stadium in its regular CFL configuration). It was made in response to people's complaints about the joint fieldhouse/stadium in order to downplay the problems inherent to the idea, namely the track and the open end with fieldhouse equipment during a football game. I would also be wary of a stadium that relies on retractable bleachers for seating as they tend to be of lower quality. There is no way that a stadium designed for multi-use will be able to match a stadium designed specifically for the CFL.

[Oilkountry]

Well...there is always this option...The als go back? WAIT WAIT WAIT!!!...before you jump on me for it. Lets just imagine a NMS,IGF or what calgary is planning is built inside the big O and the do something to not only bring the fans closer to the feild but raise the playing surface closer to the roof by building another level, Then you could have a 2 level trade show space ect or space for 2 different events. It could be something really special for the community but also I have a feeling the als may consider trying it again.

[Oilkountry]

This was the pic they released dressing it up as a community field house 1st and CFL stadium 2nd when they were trying to get the orginal funding. They have released 2 separate concepts since then and both have looked similar to the beautiful stadium you seen above

[FFX-ME]

Since Calgary is planning to bid for the 2026 Olympics they should wait before building that fieldhouse and consider perhaps building a better stand alone stadium.

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

This was the pic they released dressing it up as a community field house 1st and CFL stadium 2nd when they were trying to get the orginal funding. They have released 2 separate concepts since then and both have looked similar to the beautiful stadium you seen above

Like I said, that concept is still used on their website as an example of the stadium in the regular CFL configuration.

[thurmas]

Even if you reconfigure or renovate the Big O it's already too expensive to do. Say you have a renovated Big O it will maybe have the same brief bump in Attendance like the Lions had with BC Place in 2010-2012 and then quickly fall back to reality. Is 200,300,400, or 500 million dollars really worth that when for maybe half that amount you can build a suitable stadium for both the Alouettes and Impact that could last 30-60 years for them if maintained properly like Commonwealth in Edmonton.