Spring Garden Streetscape

[Summerville]

Originally Posted by Half-Axed

Agreed. Between South Park and Queen is precisely the stretch I already avoid driving on. If I'm going there I park underground or up by the Gardens and walk.

And if I'm not going there why would I drive on it anyway? Something like five crosswalks in the space of 300 metres or so? No thanks.

I recall hearing that Park Lane was originally designed to take advantage of the popularity of Spring Garden Road, only to then realize that most customers were window shopping as they walked down the street.

There is some really good parking in City Centre Atlantic, the Doyle and Park Lane which is as cheap as metered parking. The new Mills building will have a load on parking.

My only issue is that cars do use Spring Garden road to loop around when they have to do another pass in search of on-street parking.

[Half-Axed]

Originally Posted by Summerville

My only issue is that cars do use Spring Garden road to loop around when they have to do another pass in search of on-street parking.

That's valid - when I was young and broke I did not want to pay so I'd drive in circles. No more. Not worth the hassle if you can afford to just park under the mall.

[worldlyhaligonian]

The poor Uber eats drivers are going to get screwed here. This may permanently lock in the current situation of congestion on all the side streets and that they have to go up to Sackville or down to Morris and loop all the way around when approaching from the west.

This is just going to make Sackville and Morris more traffic-heavy and it's already a serious problem on Sackville.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I honestly agree. This promises to make it less chaotic/noisy, easier and safer for cycling (which is a big deal for a city-centre main street with tens of thousands of people in easy cycling distance), and more efficient as a transit route. Those are all big wins that will easily offset the minor effect on auto traffic.

There's no reason not to try this on for a few months and see how it works.

So if I want to take my 80-something aunt to shop at one of the few remaining retailers on SGR that appeals to her, what do I do? Drive up to the corner of SGR on one of the congested narrow side streets, drop her off, then try to reverse while hoping she can hobble to the store? Some of those streets are 1-way only so I can't easily do even that. Does she now have to hoof it for a block plus the distance along SGR? Fugget about it then, no way.

As for cyclists, let's hope they don't get into a disagreement with one of those Transit buses that will be zipping along.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

So if I want to take my 80-something aunt to shop at one of the few remaining retailers on SGR that appeals to her, what do I do? Drive up to the corner of SGR on one of the congested narrow side streets, drop her off, then try to reverse while hoping she can hobble to the store? Some of those streets are 1-way only so I can't easily do even that. Does she now have to hoof it for a block plus the distance along SGR? Fugget about it then, no way.

As for cyclists, let's hope they don't get into a disagreement with one of those Transit buses that will be zipping along.

I get what you're saying, but there are trade-offs at work here. We could design the whole city to make it as easy as possible for every mobility-impaired person to get everywhere by car, all the time. But that would mena accepting that every neighbourhood will just be dominated by auto traffic, all the time, and auto access will forever be the priority. That limits the kinds of places we can build.

And I mean, yeah, I have dropped off an elderly or not-very-mobile relative within a block of a location and then gone to find parking. They have to wait a bit. That's just part of having a busy city centre. And if someone is so mobility-impaired they can't hobble the aforementioned block, they should probably have a wheelchair anyway (and I'm hoping the SGR redesign makes life easier for wheelchair users).

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

Gotta say it again... but differently. If this is what passes as a transit improvement in this city then we're f##ked.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I get what you're saying, but there are trade-offs at work here. We could design the whole city to make it as easy as possible for every mobility-impaired person to get everywhere by car, all the time. But that would mena accepting that every neighbourhood will just be dominated by auto traffic, all the time, and auto access will forever be the priority. That limits the kinds of places we can build.

And I mean, yeah, I have dropped off an elderly or not-very-mobile relative within a block of a location and then gone to find parking. They have to wait a bit. That's just part of having a busy city centre. And if someone is so mobility-impaired they can't hobble the aforementioned block, they should probably have a wheelchair anyway (and I'm hoping the SGR redesign makes life easier for wheelchair users).

^^^ The very definition of an ableist agenda, right there.

You have no idea what it means for someone who can get around slowly, deliberately and with some assistance to be told "get a wheelchair". Geezus.

It seems that all the planners have lost the plot of late.

[coastalkid]

Some photos of the streetscaping progress (from today). Lots of activity in the past couple of weeks, looks like they might hit their end of year completion target.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

^^^ The very definition of an ableist agenda, right there.

You have no idea what it means for someone who can get around slowly, deliberately and with some assistance to be told "get a wheelchair". Geezus.

It seems that all the planners have lost the plot of late.

If someone is unable to walk less than a city block, they probably need a mobility aid. That’s not ableist.

My father-in-law spent the last years of his life very impaired in terms of mobility. It limited where he could go and where my family could spend time with him, snd made very apparent the needless impediments to the disabled in our everyday environments. But there’s a difference between accommodating disability and ensuring every single store or business comes with instantaneous drive-up access, whatever the other costs may be.

[ScovaNotian]

Would transit-only mean that cross traffic on Birmingham and Dresden would be shut down as well? If not, then accessibility would be less of an issue, no?

[MonctonRad]

No cars would be allowed on the street between South Park and Queen streets from 7 a.m. until 8 p.m.

Instead of merely bleeding the pig nearly to death, why not deliver the killing coup de grace? I mean, nobody would be using SGR to go shopping, to a restaurant or to a show after 8 PM anyway, so what's the friggin' point of opening up the street for general traffic flow after 8 PM anyway? The city should be up front about their intentions and simply ban private vehicular traffic 24/7/365 and be done with it........

I suppose the overnight reprieve is more to allow for delivery vehicles. The city really doesn't want any private vehicles downtown otherwise. By making this exception (for local delivery traffic) however, it allows the city to maintain the illusion that they are still "car friendly".............

[Half-Axed]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I mean, nobody would be using SGR to go shopping, to a restaurant or to a show after 8 PM anyway, so what's the friggin' point of opening up the street for general traffic flow after 8 PM anyway? .

I don’t know HRM’s reasoning, but it makes sense to let cabs into a bar & restaurant district at night. And yes deliveries in the wee hours of the morning.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Half-Axed

I don’t know HRM’s reasoning, but it makes sense to let cabs into a bar & restaurant district at night. And yes deliveries in the wee hours of the morning.

You make a good point about taxis. Will taxis be banned from 7 AM - 8 PM too, or will they be given a special exemption to allow them to be able to drop their patrons off at the door of the establishment they are going to? If taxis are banned, and their customers forced to walk the last 2-3 blocks, this could be a significant business disincentive for them.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Seems like a strange way to 'plan'.

"Oh, traffic hasn't been able to drive on SGR during construction. Hmmm... since drivers are already used to not driving there, why don't we just not let anybody drive there again? It would be cool to have SGR as pedestrian only."

"Yeah... but what about our reputation as a transit-oriented city?"

"Never thought about that. OK, let's let buses on it, but only buses."

"Loud, diesel spewing buses will take away from the pedestrian experience, though."

"Doesn't matter... it looks good on paper."

"What about deliveries to businesses?"

"Well, they've made out fine during construction. But... let's open up the street to traffic overnight so they can't say we're not thinking of their needs."

"Yeah... nobody will care late at night as the only people there will be the drunks coming from the bars."

"Sounds like a plan!"

"Man, that's the best 10 minutes of planning that we've spent all year!"

"Let's take an extra long coffee break to celebrate!"

*High fives*

[MonctonRad]

I can see this happening very easily.

"Hey guys, lets get together for another 15 minute planning session next Friday morning too. I think it would be a great idea to ban traffic on Barrington Street as well! We can all go to Starbucks afterwards to grab some lattes..........

[Keith P.]

Look out, Bulldog Sue Uteck is saying HRM Planning pulled a sneaky double-cross. You don’t want her going on the warpath…

https://halifax.citynews.ca/local-ne...oposal-4805585

[MonctonRad]

The SGABA certainly seems to feel like they've been blindsided by city planning. It does seem like a sneaky double cross. Sue Uteck will certainly raise a stink over this at city council. She won't take any guff from Waye Mason, that's for sure!

This could make for a very interesting upcoming city council session. Don't forget your popcorn.........

[pblaauw]

I was going to say something, as a wheelchair user, but I go distracted by the Stadtler and Waldorf routine.

[someone123]

Thanks for the photos. I am surprised there are still some utility poles up on SGR. I guess those are coming down? I wonder about some of the side streets.

[RoshanMcG]