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View Poll Results: Who has the more positive vision for New Brunswick's future?
Susan Holt's Liberals 42 71.19%
Blaine Higgs's Progressive Conservatives 17 28.81%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

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  #61  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2024, 12:48 AM
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PC candidate for Saint John West-Lancaster is “thirsty for the talk”

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PC Candidate for Saint John West Lancaster, Kim Costain has since released a statement that basically completely ignores the questionable content in her Tik Tok videos.



Sounds like the Liberals actually have a solid chance to win Saint John West-Lancaster at this point, despite 338.com having it as PC Likely for the time being. The Liberal's candidate, Kate Wilcott, is running a much stronger campaign than the 2020 Liberal candidate who's name escapes me. It could end up being a much closer riding than many expected.

As someone who lives in this riding, I hope it goes red, as the West Side would be much better served by an MLA who's a member of the next government than an MLA who's a member of the opposition.
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  #62  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2024, 12:19 PM
lirette lirette is online now
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Originally Posted by drewber View Post
Seperation of church and state. Make policies based on political reasonings not religious ones. Faytenne is a loose nut and if you haven't seen that by now you're probably as radical as she is
There is certainly a huge difference between a regular weekly church goer and someone like Faytene who has spent most of her life being an activist televagelist, running 4MYCanada and making claims like:

-Has resurrected someone
-That god sent a recession to canada in response to abortion being legalized
-Gay marriage could lead to people marrying animals
-Was cursed by a coven of witches
-Abortion causes cancer

I don't factor in someone's religious belief generally when assessing who I vote for. In general I've always felt pretty confident in candidates ability to seperate their religious beliefs from public policy as that tends to be the culture in Canada. But someone like Faytene crosses a particular threshold, where her entire goal is to make Canada look a particular way in order to "bring the return of jesus".

Faytene WILL have a cabinet position if elected, whether it be in Education, public safety or health remains the question.

Do you want someone as a minister of health who believes they can be given autoimmune hepatitis by a coven of witches? Or an health minister who believes we can use prayer to cure cancerous cells?

Do we want someone as the minister of education who believes that if we just speak in tongues for 1 hour per day we will be living in an entirely different reality within 1 month? Or compares sex ed to the residential school system?


The choice is yours Hampton!
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  #63  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2024, 12:24 PM
gtsoc gtsoc is offline
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There is a local facebook group where someone had posted a picture of Faytene's campaign installing signs on their lawn .. even when they did not request one. There are quite a few Faytene signs around.. which begs the question.. how many are legit requests?? I haven't heard many positive things about her around the town.
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  #64  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2024, 10:09 AM
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NB Leaders Debate

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Holt and Coon made it clear they had plans to deal with healthcare, housing, education, cost of living crisis, tax reform, homelessness, and addiction treatment, while Higgs has critically underfunded these areas during his 6 years in office.

I'm definitely a lot more confident a Liberal / Green government could actually work now. It was obviously on Higgs's mind last night as he tried to scaremonger about the possibility of a Liberal+Green coalition.

Liberal Majority still far more likely, but it could still be close enough for a minority situation.
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  #65  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2024, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn View Post
[Holt and Coon made it clear they had plans to deal with healthcare, housing, education, cost of living crisis, tax reform, homelessness, and addiction treatment, while Higgs has critically underfunded these areas during his 6 years in office.

I'm definitely a lot more confident a Liberal / Green government could actually work now. It was obviously on Higgs's mind last night as he tried to scaremonger about the possibility of a Liberal+Green coalition.

Liberal Majority still far more likely, but it could still be close enough for a minority situation.
Hold onto your wallet then.

Those $100M surpluses of Higgs will be replaced by $250M deficits under a Holt/Coon coalition government.

First Shawn Graham, then Brian Gallant, How could Susan Holt be any different?
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  #66  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2024, 11:54 AM
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The surpluses would be better to handle if actual improvements have been made. Education is suffering (how many busses are being cancelled daily because of no drivers, how many teachers with no BEd are teaching?), Health Care is suffering (people staying and dying in closets, nurses and doctors leaving at alarming rates)

Maybe if Higgs gets elected again, he shouldn't appoint a morning show radio host as Finance Minister.
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  #67  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2024, 11:55 AM
sailor734 sailor734 is online now
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Hold onto your wallet then.

Those $100M surpluses of Higgs will be replaced by $250M deficits under a Holt/Coon coalition government.

First Shawn Graham, then Brian Gallant, How could Susan Holt be any different?
^ I'm not a Higgs fan but that is my biggest worry about the alternative.

This is one election where I am truly torn about which way to go. To make the choice even tougher, my riding (SJ Portland-Simonds) has two high quality, impressive candidates in Paul Dempsey and John Dornan. I would expect either would very much be candidates for an prominent cabinet post.

I'm reading and watching as the provincial campaigns unfold but I wouldn't be surprised if I wasn't undecided right until the last minute.
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  #68  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2024, 12:08 PM
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^ I'm not a Higgs fan but that is my biggest worry about the alternative.

This is one election where I am truly torn about which way to go. To make the choice even tougher, my riding (SJ Portland-Simonds) has two high quality, impressive candidates in Paul Dempsey and John Dornan. I would expect either would very much be candidates for an prominent cabinet post.

I'm reading and watching as the provincial campaigns unfold but I wouldn't be surprised if I wasn't undecided right until the last minute.
Ultimately, if it looks like the Liberals will form the next government, wouldn’t it be logical to vote for the MLA candidate with the best chance of being part of the next government, rather than the opposition? Saint John won’t be doing itself any favours if Holt becomes our next premier, but we only end up with one or two MLAs sitting in government.

Three or four seats for the Liberals in Saint John would probably mean majority territory for the Liberals. Judging from what you and MonctonRad have stated regarding your fears… a Liberal/Green minority situation should scare y’all even more than a Liberal Majority.

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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Hold onto your wallet then.

Those $100M surpluses of Higgs will be replaced by $250M deficits under a Holt/Coon coalition government.

First Shawn Graham, then Brian Gallant, How could Susan Holt be any different?
Perhaps because Holt and Coon not dumbasses like Graham and Gallant? Where are you pulling these numbers from, anyways?

A Liberal majority is far more likely than a Liberal/Green minority situation. I’m still on the fence as to which would be preferable.
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  #69  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2024, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by sailor734 View Post
^ I'm not a Higgs fan but that is my biggest worry about the alternative.

This is one election where I am truly torn about which way to go. To make the choice even tougher, my riding (SJ Portland-Simonds) has two high quality, impressive candidates in Paul Dempsey and John Dornan. I would expect either would very much be candidates for an prominent cabinet post.

I'm reading and watching as the provincial campaigns unfold but I wouldn't be surprised if I wasn't undecided right until the last minute.
That is a fair assessment.

I would love to see alignment at the federal/provincial level. Fantasy to have all three levels aligned; the current common council scares me.

Alignment at the F/P levels could help undo the Area911 problems; revert to reasonable expectations on parental responsibilities, all the while being fiscally responsible.

I consider the Conservative Party and Provincial PC party to be reasonably aligned on these topics.

The last fiscal responsible common council was lead by a PC leadership candidate, imho.
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  #70  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2024, 12:23 PM
sailor734 sailor734 is online now
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Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn View Post
Ultimately, if it looks like the Liberals will form the next government, wouldn’t it be logical to vote for the MLA candidate with the best chance of being part of the next government, rather than the opposition? Saint John won’t be doing itself any favours if Holt becomes our next premier, but we only end up with one or two MLAs sitting in government.

Three or four seats for the Liberals in Saint John would probably mean majority territory for the Liberals. Judging from what you and MonctonRad have stated regarding your fears… a Liberal/Green minority situation should scare y’all even more than a Liberal Majority.



Perhaps because Holt and Coon not dumbasses like Graham and Gallant? Where are you pulling these numbers from, anyways?

A Liberal majority is far more likely than a Liberal/Green minority situation. I’m still on the fence as to which would be preferable.
Unless there is a pretty radical change in the next 3 weeks I don't think it's going to be clear what the most likely outcome is going to be.

I think there is a reasonable chance of any of the following three things happening....

1 Razor thin PC majority
2.Minority Liberal government propped up be the Greens (perhaps the worst outcome as the Greens would demand unreasonable spending even past the point of what the Liberals are naturally inclined to do)
3. Thin (1-3 seat) Liberal majority.

I think options 1 and 3 both have pros and cons.
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  #71  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2024, 12:39 PM
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Higgs works off the "Con" playbook...

- Break the system
- Talk about how the system is broken
- Tout the benefits of privatization as the only solution
- Attempt to privatize things while distracting with an inflammatory cause
- Hoard federal money but say we are broke, shuttering many social programs

Rinse...repeat.

Holt has my vote, Higgs has an archaic vision of the world. He is not modern, progressive and I don't think he even "likes" 90% of NB'ers.
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  #72  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2024, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Photo1 View Post
Higgs works off the "Con" playbook...

- Break the system
- Talk about how the system is broken
- Tout the benefits of privatization as the only solution
- Attempt to privatize things while distracting with an inflammatory cause
- Hoard federal money but say we are broke, shuttering many social programs

Rinse...repeat.

Holt has my vote, Higgs has an archaic vision of the world. He is not modern, progressive and I don't think he even "likes" 90% of NB'ers.
What a low information post.

Repeating what the lefties on X post does not constitute an intelligent form of discourse.

Try better. Or take it back to X.

edited to remove inflamatory language.

Last edited by TitleRequired; Sep 26, 2024 at 5:44 PM.
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  #73  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2024, 1:13 PM
lirette lirette is online now
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Originally Posted by Photo1 View Post
Higgs works off the "Con" playbook...

- Break the system
- Talk about how the system is broken
- Tout the benefits of privatization as the only solution
- Attempt to privatize things while distracting with an inflammatory cause
- Hoard federal money but say we are broke, shuttering many social programs

Rinse...repeat.

Holt has my vote, Higgs has an archaic vision of the world. He is not modern, progressive and I don't think he even "likes" 90% of NB'ers.
It is incredible to me the way Higgs tries to run as a challenger rather than the incumbent, as if he hasn't been in power for 6 years.

He comes off as a bitter man in the debate last night. Holt seems to have a much better handle on the issues of the day, and doesn't have the same resentment towards constituents. I'm so tired of listening to politicians complain from the bully pulpit as if they are being forced to do this job. It would go a long way for me if politicians (from both parties in power) would take some responsibility on the issues we are seeing.

An argument I would make towards people who make the debt their one and only issue, would be that Holt is going to be working with much different revenues and transfers than previous Liberal governments. The provincial situation we were working with in the 2010's was much different than the one today. Higgs himself even ran a deficit when he was Finance Minister from 2010-2012.

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-...l#NewBrunswick

Look at the difference in federal transfers the last few years the PC's are working with vs even 2015-16.
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  #74  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2024, 1:30 PM
adamuptownsj adamuptownsj is offline
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Originally Posted by sailor734 View Post
Unless there is a pretty radical change in the next 3 weeks I don't think it's going to be clear what the most likely outcome is going to be.

I think there is a reasonable chance of any of the following three things happening....

1 Razor thin PC majority
2.Minority Liberal government propped up be the Greens (perhaps the worst outcome as the Greens would demand unreasonable spending even past the point of what the Liberals are naturally inclined to do)
3. Thin (1-3 seat) Liberal majority.

I think options 1 and 3 both have pros and cons.
He just makes up stuff based on feelings (and doesn't seem to recall Holt being Gallant's senior advisor), you may as well put his account on the ignore list.

Your three items are correct, 100%. The odds of the PCs exceeding 28 seats are extremely low (5%? a polling miss is not out of the question), the odds of the Liberals doing the same are just a hair more likely (10%?), and the odds of both parties between 22-27 seats and the Greens between 2-3 are enormous.

The aftermath is what's interesting. A win's a win and no party has ever learned a lesson from winning, so what does a loss look like for each party?

If the PCs lose their majority, their top concern should be candidate recruitment and vetting, as much as a lot of people will want to make it about Higgs, who will be retiring anyway. They've really never done an impressive job, going back to Bernard Lord. Stiles, Malley, McAlpine, Cardy... not to mention [very red Tories and/or Faytene types, reader's choice]. Fumbling an election when the general public seems to, per polling, prefer your ideology is not a super common situation to be in. Especially if the PCs hold up well in swingy urban ridings but lose safer ones with duds.

If the Liberals flame out and fail to get even a minority, they need to figure out how to balance Acadian and (urban) Anglo interests while avoiding 'sensible centrist' ex-PC dinosaurs, who I generally expect to underperform. Vaguely progressive mild populism seems to be working for Wab Kinew, but that would be an odd and difficult pivot, and in a very different province.

Holt losing her seat, but there being enough Liberals/Greens to govern narrowly, is not an outcome they want, but they must be thinking of it. Would they get a caretaker Acadian leader, or gamble again on an Anglo? Two busts in a row would give them pause.

Greens... what's a win for the Greens, anyway? Treading water? Keeping all three seats? None of their incumbents, Coon included, are safe. Mitton is the safest in her rotten borough, but I don't think a fourth seat is on the table at this point. Their plan to become some kind of opposition to Liberals on the North Shore seems to have been abandoned. What's their future after Coon, whether he retires in the near future or loses? Getting back to 2018 levels, with a single MLA holding a university community, and losing Fredericton-Lincoln to the PCs and Kent North to the Liberals, would be a dire omen.

NDP... 3%+ and 40 candidates or they have to ask serious questions about why they exist.

People's Alliance doesn't have a win condition. They have 13 candidates, some in unfriendly territory, and don't seem to be adding any more six days from the writ. A loss condition would be, I guess, failing to make a dent in Austin's margin, with Conroy winning handily.

No point talking about the others, as the Libertarians secured ballot access for the next election (their only goal), and the Consensus and Social Justice weirdos aren't going to exist in November.
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  #75  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2024, 1:40 PM
adamuptownsj adamuptownsj is offline
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Originally Posted by lirette View Post
[...]
An argument I would make towards people who make the debt their one and only issue, would be that Holt is going to be working with much different revenues and transfers than previous Liberal governments. The provincial situation we were working with in the 2010's was much different than the one today. Higgs himself even ran a deficit when he was Finance Minister from 2010-2012.
For what, the Liberal/NDP/Bloc budget next year? Then a Conservative majority turns off the tap in 2026. What's her plan then? Not being facetious here. If the argument is 'there will be continuous insane federal transfers forever, which we should use for everything but debt payments' that'll run a government into bad territory when the music stops. Shovel much of it into the debt, at least you escape with an ok credit rating, lower interest, and less brutal deficits later.

And Higgs!Alward cabinet of course differs from Higgs!Premier. As does Holt!Gallant advisor and Holt!Liberal leader, of course. Premiers and Prime Ministers are top dogs in our system.
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  #76  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2024, 1:43 PM
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For the Greens, holding the 3 seats and doing well across the board is probably their best
case 'win' scenario. Whether they can do that remains to be seen. But if the polls hold and we get a narrow minority with the Greens being Kingmakers, then that's their best chance to establish their legacy for their future (post-Coon) future, and maybe make enough of an impact to further cement themselves as the 3rd Party (and finally kill the NDP).

Speaking of the NDP, I have no clue what they're doing here. I see more PA signs around Freddy than NDP ones. In fact, I've seen more orange signs for Perfection Paving than I have for the NDP. (To date, there's 1 tiny sign on Woodstock Road on the corner of Wilmot Park that I've noticed). At this point, it feels like the Libertarian party is a more serious contender than the NDP are in province.
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  #77  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2024, 2:04 PM
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He just makes up stuff based on feelings (and doesn't seem to recall Holt being Gallant's senior advisor), you may as well put his account on the ignore list.
Pardon me, but i wasn’t even living in NB for most of the Gallant years, but I have done research on the previous administrations. NB politics is a hot mess.

This is a message board, not a university level course in political science. Also, please do not assume my gender, my preferred pronoun is they, otherwise, please refer to me as EnvisionSaintJohn, thank you very much.

It’s pretty rich you’re suggesting another user put me on their block list because I post things based on feelings… when your post above is full of your own personal feelings and predictions regarding the election.

Furthermore, it’s hard to take a lot of what you say regarding politics seriously when you’re a clear PC partisan who’s been the PC’s riding association president for Saint John Harbour. You’re not exactly giving unbiased analysis.

Y’all predicted Holt would face problems for her support of harm reduction, instead she skillfully pivoted when it was brought up at the debate, and put the focus back on Higgs for not funding adequate drug treatment programs.

Holt presented herself as the better option for economic development, and her proposed tax reforms are exactly what we need for sustained economic growth and stability in our NB cities. Higgs’s 2% HST cut promise is a joke of a platform plank. Holt proposed to get rid of HST on new builds, which is something that should be of notable interest to this forum. Her policies will attract far more ambitious development proposals for NB, many of which she argued went to PEI and Nova Scotia due to their policy of no HST on new builds. A 2% cut to HST won’t have nearly as much of a targeted impact on construction development as Holt’s plan.

Last edited by EnvisionSaintJohn; Sep 26, 2024 at 11:37 PM.
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  #78  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2024, 2:25 PM
lirette lirette is online now
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Originally Posted by adamuptownsj View Post
For what, the Liberal/NDP/Bloc budget next year? Then a Conservative majority turns off the tap in 2026. What's her plan then? Not being facetious here. If the argument is 'there will be continuous insane federal transfers forever, which we should use for everything but debt payments' that'll run a government into bad territory when the music stops. Shovel much of it into the debt, at least you escape with an ok credit rating, lower interest, and less brutal deficits later.

And Higgs!Alward cabinet of course differs from Higgs!Premier. As does Holt!Gallant advisor and Holt!Liberal leader, of course. Premiers and Prime Ministers are top dogs in our system.
You can apply the same argument to Higgs who is cutting government revenues by $450 million per year with an HST cut. What programs will he be cutting further once transfers go down by ? (we have no theoretical number to work with). Perhaps he shouldnt touch the HST at all if the tap is turning off as you say.

I don't doubt that spending will be higher under Holt, of course it will, but if your argument is that Holt needs to explain her budget based on assumed conservative party federal transfer cuts then so does Higgs. What is higgs plan "when the tap is cut off" when we are already behind almost every other province in education (teachers, bus drivers, schools), healthcare, housing etc.

There exists such a thing in economics that spending in certain categories can produce positive economic multipliers.

Where in my post did I say we should use transfers "for everything but debt payments". For the love of god its exhausting talking with people who just add whatever assumptions they want onto my posts. I already stopped engaging with another poster on here for doing the same thing.

The only point I am making, is that in the world of the 2010's and today are much different environments. Moncton alone is nearly unrecognizable from 10 years ago. Our downtown is thriving thanks to investment in the Avenir Centre. I am simply making the steelman case for Holt if you are a doubter from past Liberal governments is that spending in the right way, given the current growth we are seeing in Canada could produce some really positive results.

I recognize you are not going to believe Holt when she says she is going to run a balance budget and thats fine, I just think the current conditions are such that shes in a better spot to do so than 10 years ago.
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  #79  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2024, 3:09 PM
ChampduLarge ChampduLarge is offline
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Because I am relatively new to New Brunswick, I thought I'd check out the deficit/surplus over recent years because that's been referenced here so much. What I found is that the relationship between parties and the rise and fall of the deficit is not so clear. For the period 2014-2023 I found data from the Auditor General, from another government report I found it going back to 2008.

Overlaying the debt/surplus with premiers, you get this:

Shawn Graham (2006-2010)
2008: Surplus of $241
2009: Deficit $152
2010: Deficit $695 (highest ever)

David Allward (2010-2014)
2011: Deficit $617
2012: Deficit $244
2013: Deficit $533
2014: Deficit $608

Brian Gallant (2014-2018)
2015: Deficit $371
2016: Deficit $269
2017: Deficit $125
2018: Surplus $59

Blaine Higgs (2018-)
2019: Surplus $64
2020: Surplus $41
2021: Surplus $400
2022: Surplus $769
2023: Surplus $1013

What I see here is the following: No question that Higgs has produced the biggest surpluses in the last long while and has paid down the debt, that's a good thing.

Brian Gallant inherited a massive deficit from David Allward and did the hard work of bringing it to a surplus.

David Allward oversaw a string of massive deficits and is the only one who never produced a surplus.

Shawn Graham saw the financial position of the province worsen considerably, but I will point out that at the federal level Harper took us from a surplus of 9.6 billion in 2007-08, to a deficit of 55.6 billion in 2009-10.

For me the picture that emerges is not one of consistent Liberal overspending and able Conservative stewardship. The worst of the four of them is Allward. Graham's era saw the position of the government worsen, but that was repeated at the federal level under Harper, it was the times. Gallant laid the foundation for Higgs.

Where left-leaning governments may be criticized for expanding entitlements, conservative governments are often just as financially irresponsible by giving tax cuts, often targeted to the wealthiest among us, and have just as often shown a disregard for balanced budgets. Higgs has done well to pay down the debt, but for me, I would rather benefit from more investment in the province, in education and health care, than the tax cut. And that's how I will vote.

My overall point is that people associate conservative governments with fiscal prudence and liberal ones with carelessness, a stereotype that lingers, even though the truth is much more complicated.

Last edited by ChampduLarge; Sep 26, 2024 at 3:35 PM.
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  #80  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2024, 4:30 PM
Pugsley Pugsley is offline
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Great analysis ChampduLarge!

Another important thing to note would be that Shawn Graham also served during the worst financial crisis in the past 100 years. This was a time when many governments had to spend their way out of a recession. Unemployment, low growth, and more would have been issues every leader faced from 2008-2010. So, not surprising to see we had the largest deficit in that period.

That said, other jurisdictions started to slow down their spending after the initial "recovery" efforts post-2008 whereas, by your reporting, Allward kept trucking along. Not sure if this was due to prolonged retracting of the economy in NB vs. other jurisdictions at that time or simply poor oversight by the then PC government. But agree, it does look like Gallant did everything possible to reverse the course.

If anything, by your numbers, Higgs has simply dug us out of a hole that was created by his PC predecessor...Allward. But Gallant did the harder work (one could argue) given when he brought down the deficit we didn't have the degree of population growth Higgs has benefitted from to boost provincial coffers.

Again, great analysis!
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