Hamilton Votes 2008

[DC83]

Dion's Green Shift threatens national unity: Harper
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canadavotes/s...breakfast.html

The carbon tax will do more than undermine the economy," Harper said to a crowd of business leaders. "By undermining the economy and by re-centralizing money and power in Ottawa, it can only undermine the progress we have been making on national unity."

Ummm, last I checked his centralizing the economy in Alberta has been threatening Unity.

Infact, I think it was his Conservative MP that refers to Ontario as a "have-not" Province.

More neo-con lies and deceit. It's the only way they can win seats and they know it.

[Jon Dalton]

Hey, did anyone notice there doesn't seem to be a hot button religious issue to hijack the debate this time around? It seems to be all about the environment and the economy - issues that are actually relevant.

[DC83]

^^ hence why Harper didn't want May in the debate. Because he KNOWS she'll hammer him down on the the #1 issue on Canadians' minds, the Environment, and how little he did in his 2.5 years to protect it.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by drpgq

What I wonder is if the Greens don't win a seat in this election, does that mean they
get excluded from the leaders debate in the next election? Are the Greens even favoured to get an elected seat this time round?

I believe their best chance is in Guelph. They aren't favoured in this area, and since they've only garned 2 votes on this thread I guess that backs it up.

I believe this time they should be included only because they had an independant join them at the 11th hour. Hey their 'Hail Mary' play worked, good for them that's all part of playing politics.

But, If they don't have a seat at the time of the next election, I say they shouldn't be included in the debate. Dem da rules.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by fastcarsfreedom

[Elizabeth May] is, by nature of her backroom deal with Dion, a second Liberal candidate.

What nonsence! Uncontesting a party leader's riding is not new or unusual practice. In fact, the Liberals did not run a candidate against Steven Harper in the byelection following his selection as leader of the Alliance Party. Does that make Harper a Liberal too?

Originally Posted by fastcarsfreedom

On the Green Shift, I am delighted/amused at the left now advocating taxation based on something other than income. It's blind adherence to a utopian vision of the future by an elite academic who could not be further from the lives of ordinary Canadians--despite well placed video of him in the snow somewhere wearing a North Face jacket. Green Shift will make life a struggle for a vast part of the Canadian population, will drive businesses to close or relocate elsewhere and result in a massive transfer of wealth from Canadian wallets to the treasury.

These comments are indicative of someone who has not even bothered to read the Green Shift plan, but rather is passing judgement based on Conservative Party talking points.

[markbarbera]

Wow. The Conservative Keystone Kops Campaign dips to a new low today:

Tory communications boss suspended for attack on slain soldier's dad

September 11, 2008
Bruce Campion-Smith
Torstar News Service

OTTAWA— The Conservatives have suspended their director of communications for suggesting that a father of a slain soldier spoke out on Canada's Afghan mission because he is a Liberal supporter.

Party spokesperson Ryan Sparrow has been sidelined for the duration of the campaign, grim-faced Conservatives announced this morning.

Jim Davis, whose son Cpl. Paul Davis was killed in 2006, appeared on CTV News this morning to raise concerns about Prime Minister Stephen Harper's newly announced commitment to withdraw troops by 2011.

"I would never want to see another soldier go in harm's way so I can justify my son's death," Davis said during the interview. "But at the same time if we pull up stakes and come home when we're not ready to – when the mission is not complete – if we did that then my son died in vain."

CTV reporter Tom Clark asked the prime minister about the comments at a morning scrum in Montreal.

Within 15 minutes, he received an e-mail from Sparrow saying that the father was a supporter of Michael Ignatieff, an incumbent Liberal candidate in the Toronto riding of Etobicoke-Lakeshore and former leadership contender.

By noon, Sparrow was off the campaign as the Conservatives moved quickly to dampen any controversy caused by the e-mail.

In a Montreal-area speech this afternoon, Harper called the e-mail "inappropriate" and said that Sparrow had already called the father to apologize.

Harper said he has set a "tone and expectation" for the Conservative that he expects will be followed "all the way to victory."

Sharon Davis, 56, said from her home in Bridgewater, N.S., the suggestion that her husband's criticism of Harper's announcement was politically motivated is "despicable."

She said the couple have been long-time volunteers for the Nova Scotia wing of the federal Liberal party and supported Ignatieff during his leadership campaign.

She said Jim Davis also served as vice-president of the provincial wing for six years in the late 1990s, but he has always kept his views about the war in Afghanistan separate from his support for the party.

"It's despicable, really. That had nothing to do with why Jim agreed to the interviews – absolutely nothing to do with it," she said. "This is a very personal thing and it's something that Jim has been fighting all along. He's always believed in this mission. Paul believed in the mission and so this isn't new and this had nothing to do with politics or Michael Ignatieff or the election."

Conservative Senator Marjory LeBreton earlier sought to distance Harper and the party from the public relations disaster unfolding on Day 5 of the campaign.

"When a family suffers a terrible loss like a member of their family, it's an unspeakable human tragedy and one is scarred for life and you should never let politics enter into it," said LeBreton, who suffered when her own tragedy when her daughter and grandson were killed by a drunk driver 13 years ago.

"My advice to all people in all political parties is that before you open your mouth and say something, let it process through your brain," she said.

It's the second serious misstep for the Conservatives in the campaign's first week. Earlier in the week, Prime Minister Stephen Harper was forced to apologize after a Conservative website showed the image of a puffin defecating on a picture of Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion.

[raisethehammer]

haha....great 'communications boss'. Lol.

Fastcars, you're something else. Good spin-doctoring trying to get yourself to believe that the Greens being allowed into the debate is undemocratic.

If you really believe that, then please start campaigning to have the Bloc removed and share with all us how disgusted you were when the Alliance was allowed in the debates with no members east of Manitoba.
The Bloc still has no national presence. the Greens deserve to be there. end of story.

[realcity]

I hate a parlimentary democracy system. I much prefer the US style.

Congress: comprising of House of Representatives and Senators (all elected)
Executive: AKA THe White House. These two, actually three make a stable check and balance. Considering Executive has no power without spending money, since Congress holds the bag.

the party system is overrated. George Washington never wanted 'parties' but wanted Congress to vote as they pleased regardless of towing the party line.

In Canada. i would vote for Conservatives for Ottawa (Executive Power) and my local house of representative would be a Liberal or NDP..

[raisethehammer]

yea, political parties are the real problem in both systems. The parties are some of the worst things to ever happen in 'free society'.
I'm no fan of the US VP appointments either. They don't pick someone who could qualify to run the country in case of assassination or sickness/death etc.... they choose someone to try to gain some extra votes (ie - Palin - if McCain wins, his first order of business will be to send her back to hicktown Alaska and stay out of his hair).
The US used to have a system where the 2nd place finisher became the VP. I think that's a great idea as it would force both parties to work together and still has a top notch VP who can run the country if need be (of course, that might only increase assassination attempts, but I digress).

Political parties have ruined the entire system. I agree with you Realcity, about not voting for a federal party at the local level, but other than that I don't want to have anything to do with the billion dollar US system that is all about corruption/money, not policy and the public (insert scolding here from fastcars about my "hate on" for the US).

[flar]

The US system is beautifully designed, but seems to have a tendency to having just two parties. There is something to be said for the parliamentary system and its multiple parties, though it would be a lot better if there were some sort of proportional representation.

[FairHamilton]

Yeah, I know what you mean. The political system in the best country in the world leaves much to be desired.

Think about that for a second, while looking at this picture: http://www.wehaitians.com/a_master_pho_1.jpg

No smart-aleck comments, just think of how lucky we all are as we debate how our 'system' could be better.

[adam]

We are so lucky to have different political parties that actually represent different factions in Canada.

[realcity]

Originally Posted by flar

The US system is beautifully designed, but seems to have a tendency to having just two parties. There is something to be said for the parliamentary system and its multiple parties, though it would be a lot better if there were some sort of proportional representation.

If you think about it, there really are 4 or 5 political parties in the US.

starting from the right

Libertarian Republicans
Conservative Republicans (Rush Limbaugh)
Moderate Republicans (John McCain)
"Reagan" Democrats (Clinton)
Liberal Democrats (Obama)

They can all vote in Congress however they please, this if the value of the House and Senate (Congress) regardless of their party because the GOP and DEMS know different political stripes make up their parties. Congress can also decide to agree with the Executive (White House) or not on bills.

You notice that there is no official opposition, which in Canada is the party that comes in second. The opposition or adversarial divide is between Congress and the White House.

Parliament sessions turn into bickering battles and posturing. Not much real governing goes on in the lower house. A parliament sort of bounces its way through policy. Having said that, parliaments are more efficient at getting things done when compared to then the US/Roman, Senate/Emperor styles of democracy. But then again nothing is more efficient then a dictatorship.

[raisethehammer]

no way is Obama a Liberal Democrat.
And no way is Rush Limbaugh anything other than a big dumb *bleep*.

[MsMe]

I just got this in my email. So I had to post it.

I'm not political- I'm another frustrated senior !


The following is from some very frustrated Senior Canadians

Take what you will from their colourful words, maybe this will do some good, worth a try.



Keep this going. The bxxxxx's in Ottawa get a 30% raise and we get 2% The word seniors in Canada is a forbidden word plus forgotten by the greedy.

Subject: The Carbon Tax

This rumble is now moving across the country and will gain force.

Please don't let this happen any further in Canada. Canada emits only 2% of the world's supply of Greenhouse Gases and 52% of that comes from the Oil Sands Plants. Automotive emissions are less than 20% of the 48% balance of Canada's 2% of the World Outcome. Do the math, it's such an insignificant amount, it's a joke.

Our fuel prices are now $6.75 per Gallon, equivalent to $6.00 per gallon U.S. When Canadians realize what a jackpot the politicians can get us into by supporting a Carbon Tax, they will be out to get any politician that supports this cause. Dionne, Campbell etc. will regret the day they devised this scheme. Americans are screaming at $4.00 a gallon. Our provincial and federal governments are ripping us off with high taxes on fuel now. This is such a cash cow they don't want to stop. Stop excessive taxation and giving our money away abroad. We need more support and tax relief for our senior's and baby boomers now retiring and trying to find a fixed income level they can exist upon after working all their lives and paying heavily into the system.

And I am not a Liberal or NDP supporter. I am a Senior and a middle of the road conservative and we will be a majority in Canada for the next 20 years, so politicians, get smart and support us.

Do some hard thinking about the future and protect our seniors and all the population from the excessive costs we are facing now and in the future with more taxes. Technology will fix the Oil Sands problem as they are working on a fix now to reduce that source in the future. Why us with these programs at this time????

Brian Morris, A concerned Sr. and loyal Canadian, Kelowna BC..


Now, a carbon Tax.

Politicians have, in the past, used that old bullshit phrase of 'cutting taxes' to get you to vote for them. Now, Stephan Dionne, has come up with a new wrinkle on that old lie : Tax your heating oil and anything else you burn to move your food and everything else that you have always had in your life... but, he'll lower your income taxes.


CONSIDER THIS from one person who has bothered to do the homework:

When a politician's lips move, I know he's probably lying. Mr. Dion says his carbon tax will be revenue neutral. So, I went online and found a carbon calculator and keyed in the annual energy consumption for our household and learned we produce 17 tons of greenhouse gas. Fully 60% of this usage is for electricity which we use to heat our home.

I have already improved insulation in my walls and replaced my windows and doors; use the new 'twirley' lights and ensured that my appliances are all Energy Star products. In the past 20 years, these measures reduced my electricity usage from 24,000 Kw Hrs per year to 16,000 Kw Hrs per year last year. What is my reward for this improved efficiency? My power bill is unchanged from what it was 20 years ago. But, my power bill would attract a carbon tax of $104 in year one of Mr. Dion's plan and $ 416 in year four. My power bill would rise from $166 per month to $210 per month in year four.

Since I live on a fixed income consisting of CPP and Old Age Security, my income tax bill runs at less than $200 per year. So, for my household, Mr. Dion's 'revenue neutral' carbon tax will cost me $416 per year less income tax reductions of about $10 per year.

Revenue neutral? In a pig's eye! This is a tax on seniors living on fixed incomes. Well, Mr. Dion, you haven't got a snowball's chance in hell of ever getting my vote. I hope everyone else takes five minutes to run the same calculations I did and vote to send this joker to the political boneyard.

Jon C. Coates - 70 Ridgevalley Rd. - Halifax, N.S. - B3P 2J9



DON'T BUY INTO THE CARBON TAX !

DON'T BELIEVE ANY POLITICIAN FROM ANY PARTY!

Remember when they brought in the National Income Tax. They promised that it would remain in effect only until all of Canada's World War One Debt was repaid. Fooled us good. Debt was repaid, but the tax never came off and will be with us for all eternity.

How about this Lie, Trudeau imposed a 5% tax on every litre of Gas in order to establish a National Oil Company called Petro Canada. He swore that this tax would come off as soon as Petro Canada was up and running. And so it came to pass, Petro Canada was established, It was sold to private hands, the enormous cash windfall was frittered away AND HIS 5% (plus, plus) still adorns our pumps to this very day.

Now how is this for a con job? Take our BC Premier Campbell, PULEEZE. He truly believes that most British Columbians are brain dead. You will keep paying a yearly escalating carbon tax at the pump and you receive a reduction in your provincial Income Tax. The new Political Buzz Word is 'Revenue Neutral' Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha. Should this not be called what it truly is. 'RECYCLING YOUR MONEY' Just Think Folks, Another Bureaucracy eating up our hard earned cash to administer a losers dream.

And Remember, once a government gets addicted to a Tax Grab, and you let them get away with it, You have handed them a Carte Blanche ticket to impose new taxes, to keep raising existing ones and use it to buy your votes to boot. If we condone all this, then Premier Campbell is right in assuming that we are all BRAIN DEAD in BC.

Walt Grochmal

[DC83]

^^ no offense to Seniors, but they seem to have a lot of free time to do a lot of bitching.

What bugs me is their general sense that everything is fine the way it is (since it's the way they lives the last 40-or-so years), and nothing needs to change. (note: he keeps referring to Gallons: 'That's what I called it in the good ol' days so I'm gonna keep callin it that').

And the 1st guy is lucky enough to live in Kelowna where they have never even seen a smog day in their lives. So how can one appreciate the Carbon Tax if it doesn't affect them.

The fact is YES Seniors may be neglected, so are a lot of women thanks to Harper eliminating funding for Women's support groups. He's neglected children by scrapping the National Daycare Plan (and thinks $1200/year for CERTAIN families is a better alternative). The list goes on re: who Harper's Reform Party has neglected.
The only people he hasn't neglected are the oil execs in Alberta. The $0.02/litre DIESEL price cut will benefit no one besides the oil sands who DESPERATELY need relief at the pump. <--- sarcasm.

The price of EVERYTHING is going to rise. It has risen worldwide yet Canada has been sheltered. Don't listen to Harper's lies that the Carbon Tax will increase prices b/c that's going to happen regardless of WHO is in power.

So in the end, would you rather a Party who we KNOW has kept us Economically sound from the mid-90's to 2006, or are we going to trust a Party run by Stephen Harper who has done NOTHING over the last 2.5 years besides make fun of Dion's speach!?

[MsMe]

Bottom line pretty looking sad looking picture. And as many have pointed out it's WHOLE picture here.

[adam]

1 km of ice just broke off from an arctic ice shelf. This isn't opinion, its fact. Its not coming back any time soon. We are in deep shit here if we don't lower our carbon emissions. All the ice and snow at the poles reflects back 80% of the sun's heat, but once it melts, the water that is left will ABSORB 100% of the sun's heat and WE WILL ALL BECOME EXTINCT. This sounds crazy but it has been verified by many scientists. Of course the gas companies hire scientists to say the exact opposite (I wonder why?)

So I say stop being selfish and do what's best for your great grandchildren.

[MsMe]

Originally Posted by adam

1 km of ice just broke off from an arctic ice shelf. This isn't opinion, its fact. Its not coming back any time soon. We are in deep shit here if we don't lower our carbon emissions. All the ice and snow at the poles reflects back 80% of the sun's heat, but once it melts, the water that is left will ABSORB 100% of the sun's heat and WE WILL ALL BECOME EXTINCT. This sounds crazy but it has been verified by many scientists. Of course the gas companies hire scientists to say the exact opposite (I wonder why?)

So I say stop being selfish and do what's best for your great grandchildren.

I'm going to start a new thread on global warming under general.

[MsMe]

Liberals lose ground during first week of campaign: Poll

September 13, 2008
The Canadian Press, 2008
OTTAWA – The latest polling results suggest Stephane Dion's Liberals continued to lose ground during the opening week of the federal election campaign.

According to The Canadian Press Harris-Decima survey, Liberal support slipped to 24 per cent, a full 17-points behind Stephen Harper's Conservatives at 41 per cent.

The NDP and Green party made modest gains at the Liberals' expense, ending the week at 16 per cent and 10 per cent respectively.

The Liberals were ahead of the pack only in Atlantic Canada, with an eight-point lead over the Conservatives.

In Quebec, the Bloc Quebecois led with 36 per cent, followed closely by the Conservatives at 30 per cent, the Liberals at 16 per cent and the NDP at 10 per cent.

The telephone poll of 1,200 Canadians was conducted Sept. 9 through Sept. 12 and is considered accurate to within plus or minus 2.9 percentage points, 19 times in 20.

More information on the poll is available from www.harrisdecima.ca.

Respondents to the poll were asked: "If a federal election were held tomorrow, who do you think you would be voting for in your area?"

Today in Fredericton, Harper says Canadians have shifted to the right and made the country more conservative since he’s been in politics.

But Conservatives must govern in the interests of the broad majority of the population if they want to stay in power, he added.

”I don’t want to say the Canadian public is overwhelmingly conservative or that it is necessarily as conservative as everybody in our party,” he said in Fredericton at the start of a weekend swing through Atlantic Canada.

“And that means that our party has to make sure that it continues to govern in the interests of the broad majority of the population. That means not only that we want to pull Canadians towards conservatism, but Conservatives also have to move towards Canadians.”

Harper said when he entered politics, Canada was debating whether balanced budgets and trade were a good thing.

Since then, he says there’s been a ”tremendous” change among Canadians who have embraced many small-c conservative values.

The military has joined the CBC and medicare as a source of national pride, he said.

In terms of the economy, the Liberals and New Democrats are out of step with Canadians, Harper said.

Their policies take a ”pre-free trade, Cold War” approach to the economy that will hurt the country, he said.


http://www.thespec.com/News/BreakingNews/article/434847