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  #761  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2017, 2:12 AM
Admiral Nelson Admiral Nelson is offline
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Originally Posted by PHrenetic View Post
Good Day... re:LMSF-Moodie....
MHO - #2 provides an opportunity for a people-mover solution for DND (both short-term and long-term post-DND-expansion) and the 2 care-facilities that are being shoe-horned.
Otherwise, all 3 seem rather 'odd' / 'impractical' / 'inadequately situated'. Just MHO.
EnJoy!
I am intrigued about this. If the track would be there anyway to support the MSF... how difficult would it be to run a people mover between the campus and Moodie?
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  #762  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2017, 11:05 AM
eltodesukane eltodesukane is offline
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
More significantly: with an overly long and entirely unnecessary walk to connecting buses on Carling, with an attendant overbuilt piece of crap BRT station.
You're right about that!
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  #763  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2017, 3:29 PM
Richard Eade Richard Eade is offline
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Originally Posted by Lakeofthewood View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkeggsEggs View Post
So if they decide against the Maintenance facility at Moodie will they also just stick with BRT to Moodie till they do phase 3?
Correct
I’m not so sure of that. You might have different information than I, but what I got from talking to staff at the Open House the other evening was that the conversion to LRT of the BRT extension from Bayshore to Moodie was pretty much a given. Staff felt that it was going to be within the spending envelope – although that had to be confirmed through the bidding process. If it turns out that the bids are over the $2.5B limit for Stage 2 construction, then it is possible that the conversion of the extension will be dropped as costs are pared back. That would have implications for the cost of the Bayshore Station, though, so there would be additional analysis required.

Assuming that there is sufficient money for the BRT from Bayshore to Moodie to be converted to rail, then, and only then, will the placement of an LMSF be considered for the Moodie area. If the train is not going further that Bayshore, then a LMSF will not be built at Moodie; for obvious reasons. Instead, the Baseline Tunnel would be used and Belfast Yard would be further built-out.

So, first they need to find $70M, or so, in the $2.5B budget to extend the rail to Moodie. If that doesn’t happen, then the link will remain BRT for a (long) while longer. The conversion of the BRT to LRT is not contingent on the building of a LMSF at Moodie – it is only dependent on finding the money to do the conversion.

Then, assuming that the link is converted to rail, there can be a determination of whether a LMSF can be put at Moodie. The three suggested LMSF locations are the ones that will then be investigated. And, please remember, the image that was posted above showed the three possible locations for the LMSF - NOT the LRT station's position. That station will be on the mainline that will eventually extend to Kanata along the north side of the 417. The Moodie Station will be beside the Queensway, either immediately east or west of Moodie, as the tracks pass under the road.

The LMSF will only go in at Moodie IF the link is rail, but the BRT’s conversion to rail can happen without the LMSF being built there.
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  #764  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2017, 4:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eltodesukane View Post
You're right about that!
But the new LRT station will be much closer to Carling:

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Originally Posted by zzptichka View Post
The original plan was to have it under Carling, but with the triple track/double platform design, I suspect it was going to be too expensive.
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  #765  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2017, 4:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Eade View Post
The Moodie Station will be beside the Queensway, either immediately east or west of Moodie, as the tracks pass under the road.
Where did you hear this? My impression was that the "Moodie" station would actually be a couple hundred meters east of Moodie (near where the BRT station is being built).
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  #766  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2017, 6:20 PM
Richard Eade Richard Eade is offline
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Yes, well, I probably used too strong a word with “immediately”. I was thinking of the interchange, but stated that it would be ‘immediately’ beside Moodie Drive. Sorry for the confusion.

The station location is being decided from three options, as shown in the presentation at the Open House:

This would put the station about 300m east or 200m west of Moodie Drive. Oddly, the platform locations shown east of Moodie do not appear to be along the planned tracks.

For comparison, the BRT station is likely to be built as shown in this image from the WSP/MMM Website:
(http://mmmgrouplimited.com/projects/...-moodie-drive/)
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  #767  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2017, 8:15 PM
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Seems the station location west of Moodie would make a whole lot more sens considering one of the biggest factors is to serve the DND.

For the rail yards, #2 is too close to DND (security concerns?) and #4 would entail a higher cost (crossing the Queensway). So #3 is the only realistic option.
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  #768  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2017, 9:42 PM
Buggys Buggys is offline
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There would be security concerns anywhere. #2 could lead to a DND shuttle-train, which would provide better service so employees would be more willing to move work locations.
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  #769  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2017, 9:56 PM
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waterloowarrior waterloowarrior is offline
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Display Boards from the Moodie/Maintenance facility meeting posted here
http://www.stage2lrt.ca/resources/
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  #770  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2017, 11:36 PM
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Stage 2 bus detour would connect Scott Street with SJAM parkway

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: March 27, 2017 | Last Updated: March 27, 2017 5:09 PM EDT


Buses would buzz the Westboro Beach community after crossing a temporary bridge over an LRT construction zone during a two-year detour at the west end of Scott Street.

“We are very concerned, not only about the buses, but the buses plus the traffic on Scott Street,” Mari Wellman, chair of the Westboro Beach Community Association, said Monday.

“We continue shaking our heads. Scott is just a terrible street.”

The city faces the same challenge as it did before building the first phase of LRT. The tracks are going on the Transitway, so the buses have to go somewhere before the LRT line opens.

Scott Street, which runs parallel to the Transitway, is the obvious place.

The current bus detour on Scott and Albert streets is considered a big achievement at city hall, especially since it was heavily criticized in the planning phase.

Turns out, it hasn’t been terrible.

The city hopes to replicate the success at the western end of Scott Street in the Stage 2 LRT construction.

Kitchissippi Coun. Jeff Leiper said the city wants to run buses in dedicated lanes, one in each direction, along Scott Street between Tunney’s Pasture and the Sir John A. Macdonald Parkway.

To make that happen, the city would need to extend Scott Street west, past Churchill Avenue and build a temporary bus bridge over the Transitway trench around Roosevelt Avenue. On the north side of the Transitway, the buses would make the short jog west near Workman Avenue and exit at the parkway.

There is a pedestrian and cycling bridge over the Transitway at Roosevelt that would be replaced with the bus bridge. Pedestrians and cyclists would need to cross the Transitway-turned-LRT trench at Churchill.

The city is already thinking about reducing the impact of buses rumbling past homes on Workman.

“It’s looking encouraging that the city will be able to build a full barrier,” Leiper said.

The city is also looking at ways to reduce the annoyances of construction at the Dominion LRT station near the parkway.

Leiper, LRT staff and community representatives have already been talking about the challenges.

There’s plenty of time to fine-tune the bus detour, which isn’t expected to begin until 2021. The western leg of the Stage 2 LRT extension is scheduled to open in 2023.

“This is the solution that has the least impact on residents in the neighbourhood,” Leiper said.

His “nightmare scenario” would have been using the northern part of Churchill Avenue to connect Scott Street with the parkway. That section of Churchill is a narrow residential street.

The other option would run all the buses on the parkway, but Leiper said the road isn’t built to accommodate that much bus traffic and there would be significant congestion. The parkway will still be used for “deadhead” empty buses during the detour, he said.

There could be congestion on Scott Street, too, when OC Transpo diverts buses from the Transitway, but Leiper trusts the city’s traffic modelling.

His biggest concern is the intersection of Scott Street and Island Park Drive because of the number of pedestrians crossing there.

Back in the Westboro Beach community, Wellman said residents aren’t happy about losing their pedestrian bridge at Roosevelt Avenue, especially since children use it to go to school. They expect the pedestrian bridge to be rebuilt after the LRT line opens.

Wellman said the community will hold the city to its timelines for the bus detour.

“All we’re doing now is we’re going to watch them to keep their promise to make it as short of a time as possible,” Wellman said.

A public information session on the Stage 2 Scott Street bus detour will be held April 4 at Tom Brown Arena, starting at 6 p.m.

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...h-sjam-parkway

Last edited by rocketphish; Mar 27, 2017 at 11:48 PM.
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  #771  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2017, 1:21 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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"Nightmare scenario."

Give me a break.
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  #772  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2017, 3:28 PM
AndyMEng AndyMEng is offline
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
"Nightmare scenario."

Give me a break.
I drove my car eastbound down Scott Street at 8:30am today (the entire length, from Newport's Pizza Place, all the way down to Kent Street downtown). It was absolutely fine travelling through Westboro, in fact there was very little traffic. The disaster comes at Preston-Bronson. All the Quebec traffic filtering onto Scott/Albert plus more buses from the neighbourhood made for some thick traffic. (LONG bus lines) but for driving, it was still a 5 minute 'traffic jam'...

Really not bad at all.

Nightmare? How about short term pain for long term gain?
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  #773  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2017, 3:57 PM
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From CTV News last night, the silent victims of LRT Phase 2: crabapple trees near Lincoln Fields.

Video here:
http://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1087379
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  #774  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2017, 5:15 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Nightmare? How about short term pain for long term gain?
Or even short-term pain for short- to medium-term gain: all the people in Hintonboro who wined about "2500 buses a day!" just got a massive property-value windfall, or are about to.
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  #775  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2017, 7:40 PM
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Don't forget the "Nightmare" comment was referring to Churchill, not Scott St. Churchill north of Scott is much narrower. Considering the vast majority of those 2500 buses are within a 6 hour period, you are probably looking at over 200 buses an hour, or a bus at least every 20 seconds on a narrow, 2 lane, residential street.
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  #776  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2017, 8:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
Don't forget the "Nightmare" comment was referring to Churchill, not Scott St. Churchill north of Scott is much narrower. Considering the vast majority of those 2500 buses are within a 6 hour period, you are probably looking at over 200 buses an hour, or a bus at least every 20 seconds on a narrow, 2 lane, residential street.
With no sidewalks north of Lanark.
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  #777  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2017, 3:57 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
Don't forget the "Nightmare" comment was referring to Churchill, not Scott St. Churchill north of Scott is much narrower. Considering the vast majority of those 2500 buses are within a 6 hour period, you are probably looking at over 200 buses an hour, or a bus at least every 20 seconds on a narrow, 2 lane, residential street.
For a limited amount of time.

I mean, if they can avoid doing that at a reasonable dollar and other cost, sure, but otherwise, yet again, Dear West Enders, it is short-term pain, you will gain financially, the entire city will gain, and stop whining. There are neighbourhoods in this city that would give their teeth to have the kind of mass transit access you sniveling whiners are getting.
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  #778  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2017, 1:38 PM
AndyMEng AndyMEng is offline
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
For a limited amount of time.

I mean, if they can avoid doing that at a reasonable dollar and other cost, sure, but otherwise, yet again, Dear West Enders, it is short-term pain, you will gain financially, the entire city will gain, and stop whining. There are neighbourhoods in this city that would give their teeth to have the kind of mass transit access you sniveling whiners are getting.
Sorry, I'm trying to understand this now that I actually read the article.

So buses come down Scott Street, continue past the end of the street, through the Newport restaurant parking lot, through the back yard of the Taiga Non-Profit, past the two sketchy looking warehouses, end then jog across the transitway on a new bridge at Roosevelt, and then a left hand turn onto Workman, and more than likely just blasting through the middle of the bushy area and back onto the parkway, at the normal Transitway intersection?
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  #779  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2017, 2:17 PM
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Originally Posted by AndyMEng View Post
Sorry, I'm trying to understand this now that I actually read the article.

So buses come down Scott Street, continue past the end of the street, through the Newport restaurant parking lot, through the back yard of the Taiga Non-Profit, past the two sketchy looking warehouses, end then jog across the transitway on a new bridge at Roosevelt, and then a left hand turn onto Workman, and more than likely just blasting through the middle of the bushy area and back onto the parkway, at the normal Transitway intersection?
Thats the way I read it... I would hope it's not a tight right (to cross the Transitway), then left onto Workman. If they are going to rig up a "temporary" bridge, I hope it's more of a smooth "S" shape from the South to North of the Transitway. All that acceleration and deceleration would create more noise than a smooth "straight" route.

This is exactly my stompin grounds ... the NIMBY screaming is going to be very entertaining :o
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  #780  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2017, 2:46 PM
AndyMEng AndyMEng is offline
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Originally Posted by HighwayStar View Post
Thats the way I read it... I would hope it's not a tight right (to cross the Transitway), then left onto Workman. If they are going to rig up a "temporary" bridge, I hope it's more of a smooth "S" shape from the South to North of the Transitway. All that acceleration and deceleration would create more noise than a smooth "straight" route.

This is exactly my stompin grounds ... the NIMBY screaming is going to be very entertaining :o
I don't really have a problem with the Workman part, because the road will cut through that bushy area, with a barricade between that and the houses. HOWEVER, the crazyness in behind Taiga. Like, the transitway will basically be converted from down inside the trench to about 10 feet from these people? I know all the Albert/Scott houses are similar condition, but this will be a big change for this apartment tower. Maybe a full covering, like a tunnel can be put up?
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