Rapid Transit

[SteelTown]

[MsMe]

Nice one Steeltown, where is that one located?

[SteelTown]

It'll be built at Vancouver, Olympic Line, obviously before the Olympics. The picture above is from Brussels.

It'll be a demo so I wouldn't be surprised if Bombardier paid to have councillors or employees from the Rapid Transit Office to Vancouver. 2010 is likely the year Hamilton or Metrolinx will submit a bidding process for LRT vehicles.

[hamtransithistory]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

So, without futher ado, my suggested routing of the B-Line LRT, west to east:

University Plaza
West Village Condos
Binkley (Fortinos, St Mary's highschool)

Confused me there for a second. The original name for the Main/Osler intersection is Binkley Corners

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

McMaster
Longwood
Dundurn
Locke
Hess Village
Bay St (City Hall/Education Square/Copps Coliseum)
McNab Terminal
Hughson (Gore, GO Station)

I guess if the LRT ran along James, these last two would be merged into one?

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

Jarvis/Spring (International Village)

I had to look this one up, I'd call it Wellington instead

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

Emerald
Wentworth
Sherman
Gage
Delta
Ottawa
Kenilworth
Queenston Traffic Circle
Parkdale
Nash

There's quite a distance between the last two, maybe we should add a stop at Potruff?

[mishap]

Originally Posted by hamtransithistory

There's quite a distance between the last two (Parkdale, Nash), maybe we should add a stop at Potruff?

I agree. Otherwise, it's a mile between stops. There are a lot of riders in the area, and if they can't get to LRT, it'll bog down whatever bus is providing local service. Also, since it's right next to the Parkway, maybe there's the potential for some sort of park-and-ride facility, or a kiss-and-ride at the very least.

[thistleclub]

Metrolinx cash won't cover 25-year plan
October 08, 2008
By Rob Faulkner
The Hamilton Spectator

Metrolinx chairman Rob MacIsaac said yesterday the transportation agency can only fund seven years of its 25-year plan — but will still forge ahead.
It underscores the urgent push by city hall to get local rapid transit in the first Metrolinx budget for 2009-13, as the economy is rife with uncertainty.
MacIsaac’s visit to Hamilton and the Chamber of Commerce yesterday didn’t reassure everyone.

“I’ll feel better when I hear ka-ching,” said city Councillor Russ Powers, chair of the public works committee. He said proposed east-west and north-south rapid transit lines in Hamilton must be planned together, despite Metrolinx’s plan to tackle the east-west line first.

In a $50-billion, 25-year draft regional transportation plan revealed last month, Metrolinx calls for several rapid transit lines in Hamilton, but hasn’t decided on rail or bus. The city, and residents in surveys, prefer rail over bus lines.

“The devil is in the details,” Kathy Drewitt, chair of the Downtown Hamilton Business Improvement Area, said at the Hamilton Chamber of Commerce luncheon.

Her members, who’d be affected by construction of transit lines in the core, prefer light rail. MacIsaac said the technology will be decided on after detailed study of each line.

The regional transportation body is charged with implementing the MoveOntario 2020 plan that began with $11.5 billion from the province and wants $6 billion in federal cash.

Powers and MacIsaac said the lead-up to Oct. 14’s federal election is the time to ask candidates where they stand on the missing $6 billion.

City staff studying the issue say two LRT lines in Hamilton — one east-west, and one north-south — could cost $1.1 billion. Councillors want Ontario to pay capital costs.

“I’m listening closely to Mayor (Fred) Eisenberger and I’m sympathetic to what he’s saying. I’m rooting for at least one LRT line in Hamilton. It’s important for us to do due diligence because there’s only so much money and everyone across the region would like LRT,” MacIsaac said. He expects a final regional transportation plan in November, after public consultations.
Metrolinx will hold a public open house in Hamilton starting at
5 p.m. Oct. 30 at the Hamilton Convention Centre (1 Summers Lane).

[matt602]

Originally Posted by mishap

I agree. Otherwise, it's a mile between stops. There are a lot of riders in the area, and if they can't get to LRT, it'll bog down whatever bus is providing local service. Also, since it's right next to the Parkway, maybe there's the potential for some sort of park-and-ride facility, or a kiss-and-ride at the very least.

I think a stop right along the middle of the Queenston Rd. overpass between the traffic lights would be a good idea. I've long thought there should be a bus stop along here as well (there's currently one at Potruff and one at Reid, at opposite sides of the valley - a far and tiring walk).

Barton over the RHVP is also a pain because there is large barriers seperating pedestrians from traffic, making a bus stop impossible. It's not as much distance between the two stops as Queenston, but that Bayfront bus can creep up on you and if you miss it you'll be looking at a long wait.

[raisethehammer]

I'm sure to be chastised for this, but I think I'm starting to reverse my long-held preference for both rails on Main.
Allow me to explain why:

1. Redevelopment will happen along LRT stops. I want LRT stops on King. That point is simple enough. lol....I'll elaborate though - King/Sherman, King/Dundurn, King/Gage, King/Wentworth etc.... I fear that these areas might actually get worse being removed from the LRT stops if both lines are on Main. Imagine all of those intersections being revitalized along an LRT stop?
2. Symbolic. The look of LRT gliding past the Gore, International Village etc.... King is so much more of an urban street than Main.
3. World-class streetscaping. I've pained over this, but the more I look at it, the more I doubt that both lines could fit on Main, especially between Dundurn and the Delta. We already have disgustingly narrow sidewalks along most of that stretch. I want wider sidewalks, proper platforms, tons of trees and street parking on the south curb.
With only 1 LRT track I envision the area around Main/Locke looking like this:
parking on south curb, 2 eastbound car lanes, 1 eastbound LRT lane, wider sidewalks on both sides and tons of trees.
4. The more I research it, it's common to have a downtown split on LRT lines. Portland did it and it didn't cause any harm. East and west of downtown PDX the lines would come back together. Same as we'd have here west of Longwood and east of the Delta.
5. Ability to capture more riders. Having both lines on Main means a huge segment of the population won't ever use an LRT if they live north of King through central Hamilton. Having 1 on each street will make it more convenient for them. For example, I live at Strathcona and York. It's a 5 minute walk to King/Locke. I'd happily do that to use the LRT (granted I'm not the best example, because I'd also happily walk to Main/Locke, but many folks won't based on LRT research in other cities). I have the option of using the #8 bus in front of my house to get downtown, and then on the way back home from the east I'd use the LRT.
with both lines on Main, I'm less likely to do all that walking in snow or rain...again, I PERSONALLY would, but research shows that most folks won't.

Any thoughts??

[FairHamilton]

I don't know if this link to a video was posted before, or not. I can't remember seeing it previously.

http://www.myhamilton.ca/myhamilton/...ansitVideo.htm

[LikeHamilton]

It was released yesterday buy the city.

[DC83]

Originally Posted by mishap

I agree. Otherwise, it's a mile between stops. There are a lot of riders in the area, and if they can't get to LRT, it'll bog down whatever bus is providing local service. Also, since it's right next to the Parkway, maybe there's the potential for some sort of park-and-ride facility, or a kiss-and-ride at the very least.

I agree with a stop @ Potruff as the stretch between there and Nash is very dense with Apt Bldgs which are full of elderly people. So a stop at both Nash & Potruff would really benefit them.

My issue lies with whether adding more stops is going to increase travel time, and take the 'Rapid' out of 'Rapid Transit'. But if the lanes are dedicated LRT, then that wouldn't be an issue. And I don't understand how the City thinks it needs to be mixed-traffic in this area as the road is HUGE!

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

I'm sure to be chastised for this, but I think I'm starting to reverse my long-held preference for both rails on Main.
Allow me to explain why:

...

Any thoughts??

I was thinking just this the other day. To be honest, I think about LRT at least twice a day as I ride the B-Line to/from work.

I fear that both directions along Main would further seperate the 'Main St Divide of classes'. I wonder whather LRT on Main would raise the housing prices so much up there, the low-income residents will be forced to the less-desriable North-of-King area.

But I also wonder whather that would even matter, as City Staffers are hoping that the prices will increase in the ENTIRE lower City forcing those low-income folks to... I dunno... Brantford?

[omro]

I still personally think both lines should be on Main. LRT is good for Hamilton, so where ever it goes, as long as it goes somewhere and is executed well, that's great and the final street isn't that important. However, my opinion won't change, the two lines should be together. To split the lines just doesn't make financial sense and makes it awkward.

If you put even one LRT track on King, I doubt it will ever get a two-way conversion if King even needs to be converted.

I've also said this before, but no one seems that interested in pedestrianising King Street from International Village down to Jackson Sq. as the precious car must have right of way. Most British cities have pedestrianised areas and it hurts them not one jot. People use transit or car parks around the centre and wander idly from shop to shop, enjoying the peace and not having to worry about having to trip over cars.

The issue with pedestrianising that swathe of King is looked at backwards. They say if people can't drive past the shops or park in front of the shops, no one will go there. And if no one goes there, there will be no demand and if there is no demand, there will be no shops, etc etc etc.

However, think of Malls. People walk idly around from shop to shop, enjoying the peace and not having to worry about having to trip over cars. People get to them using transit or the car parks surrounding them. Why do they go? Because the shops they want to go to are there.

Supply creates demand as well as demand creating supply.

If decent shops and bars and restaurants were in the King Street downtown core and if the downtown shopping centre thingy was replaced with something decent, people would actually go downtown.

Alas for this to happen requires major redevelopment backing from public and private sector people. For example Southgate Bath.

Anyway, LRT on King would be cool and I'd be all for it... if both lines could be on King.

[drpgq]

I've actually thought this way as well. King seems to be turning around slowly in the international village and I think LRT would help King east of Wellington.

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

I'm sure to be chastised for this, but I think I'm starting to reverse my long-held preference for both rails on Main.
Allow me to explain why:

1. Redevelopment will happen along LRT stops. I want LRT stops on King. That point is simple enough. lol....I'll elaborate though - King/Sherman, King/Dundurn, King/Gage, King/Wentworth etc.... I fear that these areas might actually get worse being removed from the LRT stops if both lines are on Main. Imagine all of those intersections being revitalized along an LRT stop?
2. Symbolic. The look of LRT gliding past the Gore, International Village etc.... King is so much more of an urban street than Main.
3. World-class streetscaping. I've pained over this, but the more I look at it, the more I doubt that both lines could fit on Main, especially between Dundurn and the Delta. We already have disgustingly narrow sidewalks along most of that stretch. I want wider sidewalks, proper platforms, tons of trees and street parking on the south curb.
With only 1 LRT track I envision the area around Main/Locke looking like this:
parking on south curb, 2 eastbound car lanes, 1 eastbound LRT lane, wider sidewalks on both sides and tons of trees.
4. The more I research it, it's common to have a downtown split on LRT lines. Portland did it and it didn't cause any harm. East and west of downtown PDX the lines would come back together. Same as we'd have here west of Longwood and east of the Delta.
5. Ability to capture more riders. Having both lines on Main means a huge segment of the population won't ever use an LRT if they live north of King through central Hamilton. Having 1 on each street will make it more convenient for them. For example, I live at Strathcona and York. It's a 5 minute walk to King/Locke. I'd happily do that to use the LRT (granted I'm not the best example, because I'd also happily walk to Main/Locke, but many folks won't based on LRT research in other cities). I have the option of using the #8 bus in front of my house to get downtown, and then on the way back home from the east I'd use the LRT.
with both lines on Main, I'm less likely to do all that walking in snow or rain...again, I PERSONALLY would, but research shows that most folks won't.

Any thoughts??

[SteelTown]

Metrolinx launches public consultations on The Big Move

TORONTO, Oct. 8 /CNW/ - Metrolinx is seeking public comment on The Big Move: Transforming Transportation in the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area. The 25-year, $50 billion plan has been released as a draft, and Metrolinx wants to hear from the public before finalizing the recommendations.

"In order for the plan to work, we need input from the people who actually use the transportation system," said Metrolinx Chair Rob MacIsaac. "Transportation impacts on every person in the GTHA, and we want to engage as many of them as possible to make sure we get this right."

Metrolinx will host seven Open House/Public Meetings across the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area for participants to meet with Metrolinx board members and staff and participate in discussions around proposals in The Big Move.


Monday, October 20 - Premiere Convention Centre, Richmond Hill
Tuesday, October 21 - International Centre, Mississauga
Wednesday, October 22 - Metro Toronto Convention Centre, Toronto
Monday, October 27 - Downsview Park, Toronto
Tuesday, October 28 - Heydonshore Pavilion, Whitby
Wednesday, October 29 - Halton Region Auditorium, Oakville
Thursday, October 30 - Hamilton Convention Centre, Hamilton

Each event will begin with an Open House from 5:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m., followed by a Public Meeting - including roundtable discussions and interactive exercises - from 7:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. As space is limited at each venue, please register to participate in a public meeting in advance specifying which event you plan to attend in one of the following ways:

Register online at www.metrolinx.com (follow the "Public Meetings" links) or send an e-mail to [email protected] or call 1-866-658-9890. For meeting details including public transit directions visit the Metrolinx website.

Metrolinx's two new documents, the Draft Regional Transportation Plan (RTP) entitled The Big Move: Transforming Transportation in the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area and the Draft Investment Strategy (IS) are posted online and are accessible 24/7 for review and comment by the public until November 14 at www.metrolinx.com (click on the "Participate in our online consultations" button). E-engagement is one of Metrolinx's popular greeninitiatives.

[thistleclub]

I'm for both on Main, though like omro I'm okay with King getting it if it takes two lines. I'm not sure that existing urban structure is necessarily an unqualified boon, though. Ask any of the long-standing King Street owners from James to Wellington how much they enjoyed the city laying down its ornamental sidewalks, which were installed at a snail's pace over the course of several months, during which entire blocks were reduced to dirt and gravel. Retail traffic took a real hit, for which no compensation or apology was offered. Assuming they start laying rail at McMaster and head east, the process should be pretty smooth by the time it gets to downtown, but it will still be disruptive. They want to do this right, not seasonally like road repair. With less "urban" ness on main there is less to disrupt... and in general, a more generous berth (King basically drops to two lanes from Mary to Wellington) and more equitable path (it's essentially a straight run, whereas King tracks through well-populated residential neighbourhoods after the delta). The north/south divide is a bit of a canard, I would argue. The directionals relate to the northernmost of the two main drags – so downtown King divides James into North and South while in the east end Main does the same starting around Rosslyn. As LRT proponents like to point out, though, people invest along an LRT line. By the time a line would be operational, I would expect that the landscape would look considerably different, both in terms of streetscaping and commercial streetwall. (King is obviously predisposed to urban life, so maybe Main, which runs through the middle of the lower city, might benefit more from the restorative powers of LRT? It's not much of a readymade postcard but I imagine that that kind of indisputable revitalization would be pretty politically compelling.) From MUMC to Ottawa St., Main and King are typically no more than two blocks/2-3 minutes apart. How finite are the effects of LRT-linked revitalization?

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

5. Ability to capture more riders. Having both lines on Main means a huge segment of the population won't ever use an LRT if they live north of King through central Hamilton. Having 1 on each street will make it more convenient for them.

On a King/Main split, use also depends upon the direction of the available train. If you're heading in the opposite direction to a given train it doesn't matter how much shorter your walk to the LRT platform is: You're taking the bus.

[Blurr]

Is there any city to compare that has one way light rail transit?

I see so many issues with one way street LRT I am surprised it is even being considered.

One way is for highways.

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

On a King/Main split, use also depends upon the direction of the available train. If you're heading in the opposite direction to a given train it doesn't matter how much shorter your walk to the LRT platform is: You're taking the bus.

exactly. that's what I currently do. I take the B-Line or another eastbound bus on Main to get to work, but to get home I go one block south to Maplewood and take the Delaware back west to King/Strathcona.

I'd rather have all those people using the LRT at least one-way instead of not at all.
Someone north of King could do the opposite. Use LRT to get downtown and take the Cannon bus home.
Again, this is just for the area between Wentworth and the Delta. Main/King are close enough together at Locke/Queen and downtown to make it convenient either way.

[omro]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

Again, this is just for the area between Wentworth and the Delta. Main/King are close enough together at Locke/Queen and downtown to make it convenient either way.

West of Wentworth is where all the shops are, right? So... let's keep both lines on Main

[raisethehammer]

it depends on what you mean by 'all the shops'. haha.
King St is urban it's entire length...it could be Hamilton's Queen or Yonge St's. From Westdale to the Delta, King has potential to be a golden stretch of shops, services, offices, condos etc.... east of the Delta Main takes over as the commercial street.