Hamilton Votes 2008

[adam]

Bloc part of coalition with Canadian Alliance in 2000

[markbarbera]

The offering of a coalition alternative government is both the democratic and the responsible thing for the Loyal Opposition to do. Ironically, a prorogue to avoid a confidence motion is an exceptionally undemocratic action to take. The first action a dictator takes is to suspend parliament so to preserve power.

As an aside I want to gently toot my own horn for a moment. Back in October I predicted Harper's time as Conservative leader was approaching an end. Frankly there is no way a leader that puts his government in such jeapordy of defeat in so reckless a manner can expect anything but to be ousted at the first available opportunity.

When will Conservatives learn not to take Guy Giorgno's advice? This guy destroyed the Ontario Tories and is now doing quite the number on their federal counterparts. Is he a closet Liberal?

[SteelTown]

Wow what a great speech from Harper haha. It lasted 4 minutes! All repeats and nothing new.

[ryan_mcgreal]

Democracy fail. The GG is granting Harper's request to hide from the House of Commons until January 26.

[BrianE]

Historicaly, GG's have never rocked the boat. I think this 2 month hiatus might be a good thing. Give everyone a change to calm the hell down.

[ryan_mcgreal]

I'd say giving him his prorogue is rocking the boat. The GG carries out the Prime Minister's requests provided that the Prime Minister has the confidence of the House of Commons.

Normally, prorogues take place after a busy session of Parliament to let the MPs go back to their constituency offices, get caught up, and prepare an agenda for the next session. AFAIK this is the first time in History a Prime Minister has used a prorogue two weeks into a Parliament so he can avoid facing a confidence motion.

[flar]

^^ it sets a bad precedent.

Facing a losing confidence vote? No worries, we'll just suspend parliament.

They can then kick the propaganda machine into action and come back stronger, at the moment all the parties are broke except the Conservatives.

[markbarbera]

And what is Harper going to do January 26? Prorogue immediately following the reading of the Throne Speech? This is a stay of execution. Harper has poisoned the atmosphere of the House beyond repair days after promising to take on a more conciliatory approach during this session. The next few weeks will see their PR machine trying to demonize the coalition. At the same time hHarper will be quietly offering some million dollar insurance policies to try to bribe floor-crossings, and all the while our economy will suffer from their incompetence.

I hope the rallies will continue as planned. Anyone have info on the Saturday rally in Toronto? Sad really, who thought that in Canada we have to demonstate on the streets to oppose a Prime Minister who abuses Parliamentary procedure simply to hold onto power...

[adam]

And Harper's not stupid, he knew this would happen when he threatened to pull funding for political parties. He timed it just right.. What a selfish action on behalf of a minority government.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by adam

And Harper's not stupid, he knew this would happen when he threatened to pull funding for political parties. He timed it just right.. What a selfish action on behalf of a minority government.

I think he goofed. He might be smart but power corrupts, and absolute power..... He miscalculated that the opposition would be able to work together. I couldn't see any government wanting a non-confidence at this stage. Going to election with the economy tanking would be tough, even when you are the only party with $$, above and beyond the $1.95/vote.

Oh yeah, he forgot he didn't have absolute power. If the coalition can hold together, one of 2 things will happen in January.

1. Non-confidence and the current government will ask the GG to dissolve parliament and we'll go to election.

2. Non-confidence and the current government will ask the GG to dissolve parliament and she should say that she gave the Conservatives the opportunity to get their act together and has a viable alternative for a government. That is essentially what Aird did in Ontario (without the prorogue).

[adam]

A month is time for him to sneak around and make backroom deals with non conservative MPs...

[Jon Dalton]

This is total bullshit. It's like calling in sick to work when you know the shit's about to hit the fan. Only worse because is this case work is the whole country of Canada.

[drpgq]

I have to admit, I'm a bit disappointed from a purely selfish standpoint. I was looking forward to the Canadian dollar tanking (I get paid in Euros) once Jack Layton and Bob Rae made it to cabinent and foisted a pointless and likely useless stimulus program on the nation.

[ryan_mcgreal]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

This is a stay of execution.

Harper's gamble is that the coalition can't hold together seamlessly until January 26. If they show serious signs of splintering, bickering or backstabbing over the next two months, that will undermine their claim that they can form a government. Alternately, the Liberals may still chicken out on the pretext that Harper's new budget plays nicer and that their coalition threat was 'a success' at making Parliament functional again.

Either way, that will be the end of the no-confidence threat and it will be back to business as usual, at least until after the Liberals replace Dion in May and manage to save up a war chest.

In the meantime, the Conservatives have very deep pockets to finance a relentless Rovian propaganda campaign painting the coalition as an unholy alliance of power-mad also-rans, "socialists" and "separatists" trying to undermine democracy by going against the will of the voters. (And they'll do it with a straight face.)

Originally Posted by adam

And Harper's not stupid, he knew this would happen when he threatened to pull funding for political parties. He timed it just right.. What a selfish action on behalf of a minority government.

No way. This was an epic screw-up on Harper's part, and he's in desperate damage-control mode right now. He may still manage to survive this fiasco, but his credibility is in tatters and he will have to tread very carefully once Parliament resumes.

I expect we'll see a lot less of his habit of making everything a confidence matter, now that the opposition has called his bluff.

[SteelTown]

There's already hints that Bob Rae might lead the coalition government in January. I think this is a good idea with Bob being a former NDP leader and now a Liberal.

[ryan_mcgreal]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

There's already hints that Bob Rae might lead the coalition government in January. I think this is a good idea with Bob being a former NDP leader and now a Liberal.

Interesting that Michael Ignatieff is keeping his distance from his coalition. It looks like he's putting his own long-term political interests ahead of involvement in a controversial plan to produce a government that actually reflects the majority of MPs.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by drpgq

I have to admit, I'm a bit disappointed from a purely selfish standpoint. I was looking forward to the Canadian dollar tanking (I get paid in Euros) once Jack Layton and Bob Rae made it to cabinent and foisted a pointless and likely useless stimulus program on the nation.

A stimulus package is exactly what is needed, and sooner rather than later. Most major economic powers (U.S., U.K., China, Japan, Germany) have recognized this need and have already introduced their stimulus packages.

With regards to your selfish standpoint, if we accept your faulty logic on the relationship between fiscal policy and the foreign exchange, you must be very satisfied right now. After all, the Canadian dollar has dropped nearly three cents in value since the GG agreed to prorogue and delay the Harper government's inevitable defeat in the House.

[adam]

We'll see some major inflation over the next couple years - we'll be paying $20 for a loaf of bread... some of you heard it hear first

[drpgq]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

A stimulus package is exactly what is needed, and sooner rather than later. Most major economic powers (U.S., U.K., China, Japan, Germany) have recognized this need and have already introduced their stimulus packages.

With regards to your selfish standpoint, if we accept your faulty logic on the relationship between fiscal policy and the foreign exchange, you must be very satisfied right now. After all, the Canadian dollar has dropped nearly three cents in value since the GG agreed to prorogue and delay the Harper government's inevitable defeat in the House.

Sorry if I am skeptical of the effectiveness of any of these stimulus measures. Some may work, but most will take too long to get going especially infrastructure projects. Perhaps governments will be able to craft plans that will work wonderfully and pick winners and not reward the politically connected. Unfortunately I think we are in for a major recession that time not stimulus plans will solve.

With regards to the Euro/C$, 1.616 from what I'm looking at right now is not that remarkable. I've gotten around 1.65 the last few times, more luck than anything else.

[bornagainbiking]

I know this is not a simple issue. But the LONE issue right now is to soften the global recession on Canada and work our way thru this. Like fighting a guy with a knife we're gonna get cut just whatever we do will reduce the size of the wound.
All I hear is anti Harper rhetoric and if you don't like him that is your right.
Fact: The liberal war chest is empty and they lost what 35 seats, the green party can only exist on the $1.95 per vote and the NDP need the cash. So no-one can afford an election especially the taxpayers. It would be another couple hundred million $$$$.
Fact: unemployment is a major issue and growing daily. Many industry based workers are getting laid off. Do they want this NO!
So a leader who only got whatever percent lets say 37% is the Prime minister well 50% of Canadian weren't even interested enough to vote. However; the other parties had a lesser percent so this tactic is null and void as figures never lie but liars figure.
So the Concervatives decide "hey, everyone has to tighten their belt" So they themselves take the biggest hit $10 million (leadership by example) and cut out money intended for political parties paid for by the taxpayers who 50% couldn't care enough about politics to drive, walk or ride to the polling station.
So maybe it will affect party office workers and their lives. So the parties show their greed and contempt for the people by working out a plan to guarantee they are not affect one red cent.
Do you not think that Joe worker would like the power to say laid off. I don't think so I gonna just vote myself my job back.
Get real. This is all about money plain and simple, do you think the three stooges would even talk to each other if it wasn't for basic survival.
So don't go bananas over what politicians will do like asking the GG to suspend parliment when there is more deals going on, then Carter has Little liver pills.
STOP: Time is wasting, the focus must be on the economy not liberal leadership or self preservation. Who's paying for RAE and his carbon footprint to travel around the country and promote the coalition.
Some potential leader, a guy with the most experience (some loyalty issues) on working within a reccession and is more interested in his own personal agenda. We could use his insight. By the time they sort this coalition and liberal leadership out, it will be too late.
It has to be about CANADA and the taxpayers. If you don't like it, just think we need something done now, NOW and the coalition will not be up and running for anytime soon. Other countries are already getting their act together. We may have to set this nonsense asside for now and look at it again after the storm.
All energy must be directed to solving our problems in the global fiscal disaster.
Deb Gray said it right lock them all in a room and no one comes out till they learn to get along for OUR sake. Some liberals are saying the same thing, the smart one. They were elected to act in OUR best interest not their's.
Stop with the finger pointing and get on the business end of the shovel. It just robs from a collective Canadian focus.