So, I watched the City Council meeting online via SLCTV.com tonight.... yeah, I know I am a big development nerd.
http://www.ci.slc.ut.us/council/agendas/2008agendas/Nov%2013/11132008ADD.pdf
I missed the interview with Boyer and City Creek Reserve inc unfortunatly. I will watch it on the Podcast later when it becomes available.
They had small developers that they were meeting with. They didnt mention any new projects or any for that matter. They only talked about design criteria.
Dan Lofgren of Cowboy Partners
Nathan Anderson of First Utah Bank
Alan Wood of Wood Development
DJ Baxter of SLC RDA director
Condos:
You guys had previosuly mentioned housing units on Main Street. Apparently there are more units on Main street than you realize. A lot of the small retail shops have 5-15 units on the upper floors beleive it or not. Also what about the 5 story "New Grand Hotel Apartments" on 400 South. The developer that is ripping the old face off of the building on main street and 260 south by the trax station is putting 10 units of condos with retail on the ground floor. The problem he is running into is parking. If he cant get parking the condos may be scrapped, but I dont see him having a hard time securing parking with the new 222 south main garage going in next door. According to the developers at the meeting apartment buildings can have less parking spaces due to renters, but condos are different. If somene is wanting to buy a condo they want a guaranteed parking space. Well, condo development has slowed DT, apartments will keep a steadier pace they said.
Parking Spaces:
Also on the subject of parking spaces. Parking garage costs was a huge discussion in the meeting. For subterain parking garages it costs $30,000 per space, and for above grade parking costs $22,000 per space. They pointed out how parking structures can easily place a condominium development's unit prices higher. So, you can easily see how parking affects a projects cost.
RDA Assistance:
The developer of the metro condos touched on the assistance that the RDA plays in making a project happen. If it wasnt for the RDA the Metro would not have happened he said. The RDA assisted in driving down the price of the land, which in turn helped lower costs of units. Also the city allowed him to use wood structuring instead of steel. This dramtically cut his costs. With the help of the RDA he was able to lower land costs and construction costs. with the RDA assistance he was able to sell the condos for around 300,000 average and make money. Without the RDA's help he would have had to sell the condos for around 500,000 to make profit, which he says would have dramatically made them unaffordable. So, my hat goes off to the RDA on their assistance on their projects. We need more affordable condos. Also, something that was brought up was about the "stick frame structure" above 2 floors of parking like used on the Metro. Apparantly the developer's contractor has been contacted about constructing 2-3 more of these type of structures downtown, but they can't due to some restrictions the City has since put on that type of construction. They urged the city to reconsider their restrictions and help the condo markets out.
First floor street usage:
One developer asked about bottom floor retail, and asked why cant office space, or residential lobbies be a usage on main floors, and said that he thinks the market should be able to dictate what the first floor becomes. He pointed to a development in the "FireClay area" of murray and said that the development has retail on the ground floor, and residential above. He pointed out that none of that retail is being leased. He also brought up a good point, that development has to be done right. The fireclay developer made the mistake of not putting parking right close to the retail, instead it is located north of the development. Retailers want close secure and convenient parking, and Downtown Merchants and residents want the same. They pointed to development in Portland and stated that some of those developments have no parking at all, and asked if that would work here in SLC. The developers told them no, not at this time and moment, but we are slowly getting there.
Financial Crisis:
The developers commented on the Financials and credit crisis.You wont be seeing a whole lot of condos over $400,000 being built due to restrictions on loan policies. Once again they urged the RDA to get involved to keep the prices down, and to make the projects profitable and affordable.
Neighborhoods:
People want to be part of a unique neighborhood. They live downtown to be close to the excitement. They recommended that the City Council help to preserve nieghborhoods and help establish a unique feel downtown.
Transit-Orientated Development:
The council asked about the TOD zoning and policy. The developers mentioned that zoning and the density allowed in that zoning has a major affect on property value. The TOD has a zoning hieght limit of 75 feet and a high land value due to zoning and accesibility to transit. The developers mentioned that the height limit, and high value has made the development of these properties hard to turn a profit, and recommended that a higher height and density limit be approved to make developing these areas more profitable. Dan Lofgren had recommended a 200-250 foot limit. He said while the 250 foot zoning would look out of whack right now, a few years down the road it would fit better as other development sprouted along the line. Also the land around the North Temple Trax line will be zoned TOD for higher density zoning they said.
Building materials:
The developers brought up a very good point with zoning and building materials. Apparantly the wood stick-frame structure is not suitable over 7 floors, that being 2 floors of concrete parking and 5 floors of residential housing. The stick frame cuts cost of the building by $125 more or less per sq ft. As soon as you hit 8 floors you have to use a different type of structuring whether it be steel or concrete. Dan had mentioned that they call the 8-10 floor range the "no-mans land". Meaning that a steel structure of 8-10 floors would be increasingly difficult to turn a profit with. But as you get higher with steel and concrete it makes it more profitable, this was another thing that they were pushing for higher heights in the TOD.
Changing standards:
The developers recommended to the city council not to change standards half-way through the developments review process. Set a standard and stick with it all the way through. It costs a ton of money and set back to the developers to change their designs and drawings over and over.
As you can see they discuessed a lot during the duration of the meeting, but still left a ton of questions untouched. The council reccomended scheduling a longer full day meeting with more developers as well to continue the discussion.
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