[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[fenwick16]

Based on what I have read, the NDP is waiting for a more detailed design and they have been conducting independent appraisals on the cost. I think that they plan to reach a decision by April 19 2010 (less than a month away).

On April 19, Infrastructure Renewal Minister Bill Estabrooks is expected to make a recommendation to cabinet on whether to back the development, which could cost at least $300 million, once you factor in private investment in an adjacent hotel, plus an office tower and retail space. (source http://thechronicleherald.ca/Editorials/1173820.html )

[Empire]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Since it has already been incorporated into the Downtown Halifax Land Use By-Law, can't they just go ahead with the heights as proposed? I have even seen a diagram somewhere in the HRMbyDesign document which became the Downtown Halifax Land Use By-Law, 2009.

There is less detail on the design aspect so it could be altered from the rendering.

There is a lot more to the equation than just the number of floors being accepted. In the MPS there are numerous clauses that could impede this development as with the Midtown. Compatibility with existing heritage buildings (Brunswick St.), wind impact, shadow impact, will the citadel be overpowered even though it is a block away? Is the net impact on the immediate neighbourhood a positive one in terms of livability or does the project preserve the character of the streetscape? I think the 14 fl building has to be turned 90 deg. and the 18 fl. hotel needs to loose about 50 ft. in width from the south. If all of the above have been bypassed it has been a very quiet approval.

[fenwick16]

This was released in October 2009 (below). Apparently the detailed proposal is currently taking place to calculate a definite cost. If the NDP decides to proceed on April 9 2010 then they will need federal funding and if they get that then all the remaining design details can be worked out based on the HRM bylaws.

Province, HRM Announce Next Phase of Convention Centre Proposal

(Thursday, October 1, 2009) - The Province and Halifax Regional Municipality have invited the Rank Group to submit a detailed proposal to develop a new convention centre in Halifax.

"Development of a new convention centre is a major undertaking for both HRM and Province," said Bill Estabrooks, Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal. "We are taking a measured approach to ensure this is the right project and one that Nova Scotians can afford.

"This is an important step forward in that process and will provide the proposed project details we need to make an informed decision."

The Rank Group was selected as the preferred proponent earlier this year through an expression of interest process. A joint team from the Province and HRM has developed detailed project requirements for the new convention centre for the request for proposal. In its proposal, Rank will be required to outline a design and facility management plan, financing plan, and price.

"I am pleased that we are taking this positive step together toward the development of a new convention centre that will assist in driving the economy of this region, and indeed, the Province," said Peter Kelly, Mayor of the Halifax Regional Municipality. "We have shared interest in ensuring we have a solid proposal that balances affordability with the ability to attract larger conferences to the region."

The proposal is due in February. The Province and HRM have hired a consultant to prepare an independent detailed cost estimate to compare with the Rank proposal. The information gathered through both proposals will be used to make a final decision on whether the project will proceed.

The convention centre project, as proposed, fully conforms with the view planes and Citadel ramparts view protection under HRM planning regulations as they have existed for more than 30 years, and does not violate any other existing municipal polices or regulations regarding view planes.

"We will not be part of any project that impinges on protected view planes," said Mr. Estabrooks.

As the proposals are being developed, detailed estimates of economic benefits will be prepared and discussions will continue among all three levels of government about cost sharing for the project. Similar projects in other parts of the country have cost between $100 million and $200 million.

A final decision on whether a new convention centre will be constructed in Halifax is not expected until after March.

( source: http://www.halifax.ca/mediaroom/pressrelease/pr2009/091001ConventionCentrenextphase.html )

PS: A drawing showing allowable heights for the convention centre is shown in Appendix B of this document (page 61 of 62): http://www.halifax.ca/planning/documents/DowntownHalifax_LUB.pdf . The width of the hotel is about 2/3 of the width of the block whereas the office tower is quite narrow, less than half the width of the block (almost square with slanted corners). In the renderings, the office tower appears to be wider than in the drawing in Appendix B, but that could just be the perspective of the renderings.

[City_of_Lakes]

Originally Posted by Kicker

Hitler reacts to convention centre opposition: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybZJU94IVIA

Hahahahahahah!

"We have the Harbour Hopper.

And the Dome.

...And donairs."

I just laughed soo hard.

[halifaxboyns]

The reason I ask about the ministerial exemption is that if the same power falls to the Minister in NS as it does here in Alberta - any discussion on the project is mute because it could be exempted from the city's permitting process and just approved at a Provincial level (like the Saddledome was). Just thought I'd put it out there - if you had a minister who was willing to really stick it to groups like Save the View and HT - then that might be an option. Doubt it will happen.

On another note; the support petition is at 915 and against at 581. I've seen at least 10 friends on the support side and 4 on the against. 12 haven't decided and I continue to champion the petition and getting involved. So we'll see how that goes.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

The reason I ask about the ministerial exemption is that if the same power falls to the Minister in NS as it does here in Alberta - any discussion on the project is mute because it could be exempted from the city's permitting process and just approved at a Provincial level (like the Saddledome was). Just thought I'd put it out there - if you had a minister who was willing to really stick it to groups like Save the View and HT - then that might be an option. Doubt it will happen.

On another note; the support petition is at 915 and against at 581. I've seen at least 10 friends on the support side and 4 on the against. 12 haven't decided and I continue to champion the petition and getting involved. So we'll see how that goes.

Yes, I am quite sure that you are right; the provincial government could push this through if they wanted to. For example Premier MacDonald pushed the Waterside project through. However, I don't think that it would be necessary since there is a general description of the project in the new Downtown Halifax Land Use By-Laws Manual. A drawing showing allowable heights for the convention centre is shown in Appendix B of this document (page 61 of 62): http://www.halifax.ca/planning/documents/DowntownHalifax_LUB.pdf . The width of the hotel is about 2/3 of the width of the block whereas the office tower is quite narrow, less than half the width of the block (almost square with slanted corners). In the renderings, the office tower appears to be wider than in the drawing in Appendix B, but that could just be the perspective of the renderings.

It is great to hear that you are encouraging your friends to support the new convention centre. It is also good that you are going about it in a diplomatic manner (i.e. 4 of your friends have voted against). It demonstrates the fact that some people associated with this forum want to maintain the Citadel views or have friends who want to maintain the views (I certainly forget this at times).

[sdm]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Yes, I am quite sure that you are right; the provincial government could push this through if they wanted to. For example Premier MacDonald pushed the Waterside project through.

Rodney supported it and threatened to push it through if the developer didn't appeal. The developer ended up appealling it to the UARB and won, without Rodney.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by sdm

Rodney supported it and threatened to push it through if the developer didn't appeal. The developer ended up appealling it to the UARB and won, without Rodney.

Thanks for the clarification. As I remember Premier MacDonald felt that the HRM council was harming the business potential of the municipality. At the time he was promoting the municipality as a financial centre. In any case, I am quite sure that the Province has jurisdiction over the municipality so in fact if the current NDP provincial government wanted to eliminate all viewplanes I believe that they could. I just really doubt that it would happen for many reasons (since it might be political suicide). And in any case Mayor Kelly has always been the one who has wanted the convention centre. Cheers to Mayor Kelly, he knows that this is important to the Halifax area. In any case, this convention centre is not infringing on the view planes if the towers are built with the heights as shown in the Downtown Halifax Land Use By-Laws Manual.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Thanks for the clarification. As I remember Premier MacDonald felt that the HRM council was harming the business potential of the municipality. At the time he was promoting the municipality as a financial centre. In any case, I am quite sure that the Province has jurisdiction over the municipality so in fact if the current NDP provincial government wanted to eliminate all viewplanes I believe that they could. I just really doubt that it would happen for many reasons (since it might be political suicide). And in any case Mayor Kelly has always been the one who has wanted the convention centre. Cheers to Mayor Kelly, he knows that this is important to the Halifax area. In any case, this convention centre is not infringing on the view planes if the towers are built with the heights as shown in the Downtown Halifax Land Use By-Laws Manual.

The project is well under the rampart view plane and is in between the other viewplanes. The midtown was under the rampart viewlane at 21 storeys.
Most of the view in question would be blocked by the Tex-Park development anyway. I still question the very poor rendering done by HT shown in the link below. I think they should be called on it.

Nova Centre - Save the view
http://www.savetheview.ca/

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Empire

The project is well under the rampart view plane and is in between the other viewplanes. The midtown was under the rampart viewlane at 21 storeys.
Most of the view in question would be blocked by the Tex-Park development anyway. I still question the very poor rendering done by HT shown in the link below. I think they should be called on it.

Nova Centre - Save the view
http://www.savetheview.ca/

I certainly don't support the Save our View (actually it wouldn't bother me if a 40 storey tower was built there). However, one thing to point out is that an office tower normally has 15 feet per floor since it includes the plenum and floor thickness whereas a hotel or residential tower is usually only 10 feet per floor (normally they have lower ceiling heights and no plenum). So a 14 storey office tower is equivalent to about a 21 storey residential or hotel tower. So the office tower would likely be about the same height as the midtown hotel proposal. (I have heard that office towers in Europe are built differently without the plenum and lower floor height, maybe someone could confirm whether this is true or false).

Correction: Based on the heights of other office buildings in Halifax, the height per floor is 13 - 14 feet per floor (for office buildings) so the office component of this development would be about the height of a 18 - 19 floor residential or hotel tower (at 10 feet per floor) instead of 21 floors as I previously stated.

[fenwick16]

FUSION Halifax has a poll regarding the convention centre. http://www.fusionhalifax.ca/en/home/abou...ioncentre/quickpollconventioncentre.aspx . When I voted, the results were at 82% in favour. That was a few days ago. I think that people must vote in order to see the results.

[Jstaleness]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

FUSION Halifax has a poll regarding the convention centre. http://www.fusionhalifax.ca/en/home/abou...ioncentre/quickpollconventioncentre.aspx . When I voted, the results were at 82% in favour. That was a few days ago. I think that people must vote in order to see the results.

I just made it 86%

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by Jstaleness

I just made it 86%

I just made it 87%... which is my lucky number and Crosby's as well

[worldlyhaligonian]

And also means I was the 100th vote given the breakdown... Do I get a prize? I will refuse a Condo in Spice

[mcmcclassic]

This comes from off the savetheview.ca website:

Based on a public survey of pedestrians in downtown Halifax on May 31, 2009:

•91% of the public are opposed to the two Convention Centre towers
•73% of the public surveyed preferred to keep the existing view.

The survey has a margin of error of 7%, 95 times out of 100

Even though the public does not want the towers, the public does not have a say in the process for determining if the buildings are built or if public money will be spent on the project. We are left with direct appeals to elected politicians to represent our true interests.

I don't know how accurate that survey is- they probably went to an HT meeting and surveyed them

[cormiermax]

That survey is probably total BS, they probably asked misleading questions.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by mcmcclassic

I don't know how accurate that survey is- they probably went to an HT meeting and surveyed them

LOL, hilarious... it woudldn't be farfetched for me to think that one of their members screwed up on a rigged survey and thats how the ~91% number comes from.

"duh, were we voting against this one too?!?"

[planarchy]

Originally Posted by cormiermax

That survey is probably total BS, they probably asked misleading questions.

I'm sure it's as accurate as the Fusion Halifax survey posted here. These two groups represent polar opposite views about development in the city and serve to reduce the overall quality of discussion.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by mcmcclassic

This comes from off the savetheview.ca website:

Based on a public survey of pedestrians in downtown Halifax on May 31, 2009:

•91% of the public are opposed to the two Convention Centre towers
•73% of the public surveyed preferred to keep the existing view.

The survey has a margin of error of 7%, 95 times out of 100

Even though the public does not want the towers, the public does not have a say in the process for determining if the buildings are built or if public money will be spent on the project. We are left with direct appeals to elected politicians to represent our true interests.

I don't know how accurate that survey is- they probably went to an HT meeting and surveyed them

Based on the online petition for a convention centre and public opinion that I have read, it seems the 91% opposed certainly seems to be untrue. But this is how these groups get their way.

[someone123]

Those surveys are worthless. They are generally very poorly done on many levels and on the savetheview website they don't even list what questions they asked ("do you want to see this lovely view DESTROYED by GREEDY DEVELOPERS OUT FOR PROFIT?") or how many participants there were.