Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Maybe it was lio. I could see him doing it too.

I definitely read it on SSP though. This was several years ago.

Wasn't it New Brisavoine just a few weeks ago?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Wasn't it New Brisavoine just a few weeks ago?

Nope. This was several years ago.

[MolsonExport]

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Hard to say. NB is rigorously bilingual. There is a reasonable expectation here. It might not work in Alberta, but, it's worth a try.

I recall Acajack boasting once about torturing a hapless English speaking border guard at a minor border crossing somewhere in western Canada (I think) and feigning that he was a unilingual French speaker and demanding service en francais. I forget the details, but I think they eventually found somebody who could service him, but, it took some time.

Acajack was being a shit disturber to make a point, but, sometimes this is a worthwhile venture. Maybe you could try this with your parking ticket protest the next time you're in Lethbridge or Medicine Hat.

If New Brunswick is officially bilingual, than services should be bilingual. Québec is no more bilingual than Ontario is, or Alberta, or Nova-Scotia.

By the way, the Supreme Court ruled that there are no such things to have a traffic ticket in French in Alberta :

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/...ffic-tickets-written-in-french-1.3327796

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Weird!

When an Anglo demands services in French in Québec, he is proudly fighting for his rights. When a Franco demands services in French in the ROC (including an airplane), or even in Québec, he is whining...

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

Weird!

When an Anglo demands services in French in Québec, he is proudly fighting for his rights. When a Franco demands services in French in the ROC (including an airplane), or even in Québec, he is whining...

At least they let you know that 7-UP is a boisson gazeuse.

Just kidding. The pop can should be more bilingual than that.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

In Quebec it’s very common to say “se parquer” for “se stationner”. Less syllables…

“Se garer”, sounds very French. Not really used here.

"Se stationner" is not used in France (neither in Belgium nor Switzerland I believe, nor in Francophone Africa). "Stationner" can be used (without "se"), but the meaning is different. "Une voiture stationne" means "a car is parked" (but with an idea of a transitory situation, probably car with engine on, driver waiting to leave at any moment). Or you could say "il y a une voiture qui stationne sur le passage piéton", meaning it shouldn't be there and should leave or be moved out.

To say "a car is parked" (for a certain period, as in "my car is parked on Avenue X"), then that would be "une voiture est garée", not "une voiture stationne".

"Se parquer" or "parquer" is never used for cars. In Europe "parquer" means to regroup things (animals often, also prisoners and convicts) in a certain, penned area. "Ils nous ont parqués comme des animaux" = "they locked us in like animals". Jews were "arrêtés et parqués dans le Vélodrome d'Hiver avant leur déportation vers l'Allemagne", for instance. "Se parquer" is never used in any context, as no one is masochist enough to lock oneself in a tight space.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I was in Latin America during the first part of the year and people were correcting me for saying "coche" (and not "carro") and "estacionar" (instead of "aparcar").

In Mexico people say "carro", definitely. "Coche" is perceived as very Spanish from Spain. They also say "checkar" in Mexico, which is not used in Spain. "Lo voy a checkar" ("I'm gonna check it"). Very American influenced, very current in Mexico.

Also, "to drive" is "manejar" in Mexico, which is odd from the point of view of a Spaniard ("to manage" a car, literally). In Spain, "conducir" of course (French: "conduire").

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Not much in the way of "first class service" in the Saguenay, or, Baie Comeau I wager.

Not much in the way of Anglophones either.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Those were the results of mergers, not name changes of existing municipalities with unchanged boundaries.

The names of Wakefield, Hull and Aylmer live on as the names of districts within these larger municipalities.

https://www.gatineau.ca/portail/default....l%20du,(7)%20%2D%20Ville%20de%20Gatineau

https://www.gatineau.ca/portail/default....pal/district_1&ref=navigation-secondaire

At the time, to be honest, there was a little controversy, as some said the new merged municipality should have been called "Hull", based on the fact it was the central, historical area of the municipality, and not "Gatineau" (which became the new name based on the fact it was the most populated municipality if I remember correctly?). The effect of the rule (new merged municipalities should have the name of the most populated of the former municipalities) quite pleased the PQ in the case of Gatineau, you have to admit (the Liberals of Québec at the time even promised they would reverse it if they returned to power, but they didn't in the end).

That being said, I think "Gatineau" is now universally accepted in Québec, and "Hull" has less and less recognition (especially from outside of Québec). Also, if the PQ really had had a plan to erase all English names, they would surely have changed the name of Sherbrooke, which they never did and never showed an inclination to do.

[MonctonRad]

I prefer Gatineau over Hull. It is a more elegant name.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

And BTW that border guard "torture" story isn't mine. Not sure where you got that.

From me actually. And no, I wasn't served in French in the end (that wasn't my point anyway; my point was only to assess whether a Canadian federal border agent would be able to speak French, which he wasn't, and grumpily so).

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I prefer Gatineau over Hull. It is a more elegant name.

I think so too. I still remember my atlas from high school days with "Hull" written on it next to Ottawa. Many French people often assumed "Hull" was an Anglophone city (as I did in fact).

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

From me actually. And no, I wasn't served in French in the end (that wasn't my point anyway; my point was only to assess whether a Canadian federal border agent would be able to speak French, which he wasn't, and grumpily so).

Nope. It wasn't your story. Like I said, I remember this from several years back, before you were active here.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

At least they let you know that 7-UP is a boisson gazeuse.

Just kidding. The pop can should be more bilingual than that.

To be honest, I am pretty sure that for a national brand in Canada that can would have the equivalent of everything you see only in English there, in French on the other side.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

Weird!

When an Anglo demands services in French in Québec, he is proudly fighting for his rights. When a Franco demands services in French in the ROC (including an airplane), or even in Québec, he is whining...

Even when in the first case in Quebec it's not guaranteed by law, whereas French (and also English of course) service on Air Canada is guaranteed by federal law.

But of course, the struggle for more English in Quebec is part of the wider battle for diversity, which explains why people are so adamant about that fight.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

At the time, to be honest, there was a little controversy, as some said the new merged municipality should have been called "Hull", based on the fact it was the central, historical area of the municipality, and not "Gatineau" (which became the new name based on the fact it was the most populated municipality if I remember correctly?). The effect of the rule (new merged municipalities should have the name of the most populated of the former municipalities) quite pleased the PQ in the case of Gatineau, you have to admit (the Liberals of Québec at the time even promised they would reverse it if they returned to power, but they didn't in the end).

That being said, I think "Gatineau" is now universally accepted in Québec, and "Hull" has less and less recognition (especially from outside of Québec). Also, if the PQ really had had a plan to erase all English names, they would surely have changed the name of Sherbrooke, which they never did and never showed an inclination to do.

Yes, the old Ville de Gatineau had about 40,000 more people than the old Ville de Hull. Pretty sure more people favoured the Gatineau name here. Hull's population was also mostly francophone, and while I knew some Hullois who were attached to the Hull name, many were also OK with the change to a more francophone name. Whereas I assume few people in the more populous (old) Gatineau would have wanted the name Hull.

Also note that the new city of Gatineau also included municipalities named Buckingham (roughly pronounced bâquigne-yamm by locals) and Masson-Angers.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yes, the old Ville de Gatineau had about 40,000 more people than the old Ville de Hull. Pretty sure more people favoured the Gatineau name here. Hull's population was also mostly francophone, and while I knew some Hullois who were attached to the Hull name, many were also OK with the change to a more francophone name. Whereas I assume few people in the more populous (old) Gatineau would have wanted the name Hull.

Also note that the new city of Gatineau also included municipalities named Buckingham (roughly pronounced bâquigne-yamm by locals) and Masson-Angers.

And which area acts as the "city center" now? The old Hull downtown or the old Gatineau downtown?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

And which area acts as the "city center" now? The old Hull downtown or the old Gatineau downtown?

Interesting, this made the news here a few weeks ago:
https://tvagatineau.ca/un-sondage-sur-le-centre-ville-qui-fait-reagir/

But truly it's the old central part of Hull, known as the Vieux-Hull, that serves as downtown. It's got the city hall, the courthouse, the conference centre and a bunch of other things. But's still deficient as a city centre in many ways.

The old Gatineau didn't really have a city centre. It was a mash-up of sprawling suburbs. Almost like a "ville nouvelle" but not as well planned. Before the merger, it tried to give itself a city centre which is still under development today.

The area, which is quite close to my house, is going OK. But it's not very urban, and looks like this:

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.483905,-...6thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Vieux-Hull also is not great, but at its best, it looks like the first 1:15 of this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vjnqJE5OUg

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

Weird!

When an Anglo demands services in French in Québec, he is proudly fighting for his rights. When a Franco demands services in French in the ROC (including an airplane), or even in Québec, he is whining...

I know. Anglos are really thin skinned people. We should never complain about anything. We have it so good, and we should just shut the f*ck up or get out. If we dare complain, well, heck, we are enemies of Quebec! We are the most spoiled minority in the history of the world. Le Québec aux Québécois!!

Did an anglo ever get $12,000 for getting served a Sprite in French on Air Canada or Via Rail? Damn, I could give up my day job!

The Federal Court of Canada on Wednesday ordered Air Canada to pay $12,000 to Ottawa French-language rights crusader Michel Thibodeau in part because when he asked an English-speaking flight attendant for 7Up in May 12 of 2009, he got Sprite (quelle horreur!!)

It is Mr. Thibodeau’s second successful legal action against the airline and its subsidiaries. In 2000, he was refused service in French when he tried to order a 7Up from a unilingual English flight attendant on an Air Ontario flight from Montreal to Ottawa.

Mr. Thibodeau filed suit in Federal Court for $525,000 in damages. The court upheld his complaint, ordered the airline to make a formal apology and pay him $5,375.95. Mr. Thibodeau was later honoured by the French-language rights group, Imperatif Francais.

In 2007, he filed a complaint against the City of Ottawa, accusing it of not providing sufficient bilingual services on its buses.

In the latest case, the Thibodeaus initially complained of eight instances in 2009 in which they did not receive services in French at airports in Atlanta (!), Toronto and Ottawa and aboard three related Air Canada Jazz flights between Canada and the United States.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/air...k-to-man-who-couldnt-order-7up-in-french

It reminds me of the attacks and accusations that people face when they criticize Israel in any way. You got to be 100% with them, because if you are opposed to 2% of what is happening, you are against them!

I am out of this thread again. Enjoy getting selective, revised history lessons from Nouveau Brisavoine!