Great Canadian Skyline Thread II - Page 355

MolsonExport · #**7081** Posted **Apr 11, 2018, 2:06 PM**

It is still cold here too. We had snow last weekend. Never ending winter....ah-aah-ah-ahah-ah-ahahaa!

WhipperSnapper · #**7082** Posted **Apr 11, 2018, 2:52 PM**

This winter in this part of the continent has been textbook global warming. Toronto has fair pretty damn well compared to others. It still has been annoyingly inconsistent and now too long. I think next year I'll be checking out some properties down south. Hopefully, they are still standing. It's been a few years.

RoshanMcG · #**7083** Posted **Apr 11, 2018, 2:53 PM**

Halifax

Source

Metro-One · #**7084** Posted **Apr 12, 2018, 1:25 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ainvan

https://twitter.com/YWCAWorkBC

Not trying to start anything but seeing this image really reminds me how great Vancouver’s waterfront is.

It is hands down the best in Canada (yes, there are many cities in Canada with nice waterfront / river front areas, but none of them come close to the variety, extent, and connectivity of Vancouver).

It is even far better than any waterfront I have seen in Japan (which is often fragmented between parks, industry, and canals with little connectivity).

someone123 · #**7085** Posted **Apr 12, 2018, 1:48 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metro-One

It is hands down the best in Canada (yes, there are many cities in Canada with nice waterfront / river front areas, but none of them come close to the variety, extent, and connectivity of Vancouver).

Have you been to these other Canadian waterfront cities though? They are qualitatively different in ways that are not necessarily apparent in photos.

One drawback that Vancouver's waterfront has is that it doesn't have much character or history. It doesn't have much in the way of businesses either. It is mostly park space and pathways that link up with sterile large-scale condo developments.

The most historic part of Vancouver's waterfront, the one that could have had a different feel that Vancouver is largely missing, is around Water Street and Alexander Street. But this area barely has any water access.

Metro-One · #**7086** Posted **Apr 12, 2018, 2:10 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123

Have you been to these other Canadian waterfront cities though? They are qualitatively different in ways that are not necessarily apparent in photos.

One drawback that Vancouver's waterfront has is that it doesn't have much character or history. It doesn't have much in the way of businesses either. It is mostly park space and pathways that link up with sterile large-scale condo developments.

The most historic part of Vancouver's waterfront, the one that could have had a different feel that Vancouver is largely missing, is around Water Street and Alexander Street. But this area barely has any water access.

I have been to many Canadian waterfront / river fronts as far east as Quebec, and while I have seen many lovely areas / interesting historical places along other waterfronts, they all pale in comparison to the sheer extent / connectivity / beauty of the Vancouver Waterfront. From the convention centers, Coal Harbour, Stanley Park, English Bay, Yaletown, the south shore of False Creek, Granville Island, and the wonderful recreational areas of kits, all seamlessly connected and continually improving, this all more than makes up for the lack of history compared to some other waterfront areas.

And even though I have not been to the Maritimes having been an active member on this forum for 10 years now and a Google Maps / Earth nerd I am not completely ignorant to the waterfronts found there.

I had a feeling you would contest this, but this is one aspect where I feel Vancouver wins hands down, and that includes against other BC cities such as Victoria and Kelowna.

The same way I feel that Toronto is the hands down skyline winner in Canada.

Hali87 · #**7087** Posted **Apr 12, 2018, 2:32 AM**

IMG_2765 by Hali87, on Flickr

IMG_2766 by Hali87, on Flickr

MolsonExport · #**7088** Posted **Apr 12, 2018, 2:33 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I have been to many Canadian waterfront / river fronts as far east as Quebec, and while I have seen many lovely areas / interesting historical places along other waterfronts, they all pale in comparison to the sheer extent / connectivity / beauty of the Vancouver Waterfront. From the convention centers, Coal Harbour, Stanley Park, English Bay, Yaletown, the south shore of False Creek, Granville Island, and the wonderful recreational areas of kits, all seamlessly connected and continually improving, this all more than makes up for the lack of history compared to some other waterfront areas.

And even though I have not been to the Maritimes having been an active member on this forum for 10 years now and a Google Maps / Earth nerd I am not completely ignorant to the waterfronts found there.

I had a feeling you would contest this, but this is one aspect where I feel Vancouver wins hands down, and that includes against other BC cities such as Victoria and Kelowna.

The same way I feel that Toronto is the hands down skyline winner in Canada.

I would agree. Nothing in Canada comes close to the network of paths and parks that basically skirt the entire downtown peninsula of Vancouver (and nothing but nothing beats the walk around the seawall in Stanley Park), then wrap around the bottom of False Creek past Granville Island, and then, onwards to Kits, Jericho beaches and points beyond. It is sublime. And the best I have seen anywhere, on any continent.

zoomer · #**7089** Posted **Apr 12, 2018, 2:44 AM**

Yep, gotta agree too, nothing else comes close to Vancouver. 20 years from now Victoria will be a B+ if Vancouver is an A+. Works continues on the David Foster Walkway, just today it was announced that the 7 acre Capital Iron lot is up for sale, and eventually there will be courage to tackle the final parking lots by Harbour Air. Currently I’d give Victoria a B.

someone123 · #**7090** Posted **Apr 12, 2018, 2:59 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I had a feeling you would contest this, but this is one aspect where I feel Vancouver wins hands down, and that includes against other BC cities such as Victoria and Kelowna.

It's not a matter of contesting, it's a matter of opinion. There is no objective way to determine that one place is better than another. Just as there is no objective way to determine which skyline in Canada is the best.

It is hard for me to pick a single waterfront in Canada that I like the most. I am not sure where I put the Old Port area in Montreal and it depends on what counts. The historic streetscape along the waterfront there is, I think, nicer than anything in Vancouver. Halifax's waterfront meanwhile has a lot more character than Vancouver's, both in terms of history and in terms of having a working waterfront feel. It is not as polished but it is more unique in a bunch of ways. I think it probably has better events too, as well as possibly more destinations like museums, or at least a higher density of stuff to do.

I'm not sure how much connectivity really matters. Do we think that Vancouver's waterfront is more impressive than the banks of the Thames?

Size seems like a weird thing to ascribe a lot of importance to as well. Having more stuff is better, sure. But Vancouver's waterfront is mostly just really spread out, with a lot of pleasant but unremarkable open space. If you are on foot you have to walk a lot to get from one thing to another (unless you are just interested in the scenery).

I do think Vancouver probably has, on average, the nicest modern waterfront developments in the country (most attractive architecture, best urban design). Partly that reflects a lead from 1990-2010 that has been narrowing. 10 years ago there was a really big gap.

zoomer · #**7091** Posted **Apr 12, 2018, 3:19 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123

It's not a matter of contesting, it's a matter of opinion. There is no objective way to determine that one place is better than another. Just as there is no objective way to determine which skyline in Canada is the best.

It is hard for me to pick a single waterfront in Canada that I like the most. I am not sure where I put the Old Port area in Montreal and it depends on what counts. The historic streetscape along the waterfront there is, I think, nicer than anything in Vancouver. Halifax's waterfront meanwhile has a lot more character than Vancouver's, both in terms of history and in terms of having a working waterfront feel. It is not as polished but it is more unique in a bunch of ways. I think it probably has better events too, as well as possibly more destinations like museums, or at least a higher density of stuff to do.

I'm not sure how much connectivity really matters. Do we think that Vancouver's waterfront is more impressive than the banks of the Thames?

Size seems like a weird thing to ascribe a lot of importance to as well. Having more stuff is better, sure. But Vancouver's waterfront is mostly just really spread out, with a lot of pleasant but unremarkable open space. If you are on foot you have to walk a lot to get from one thing to another (unless you are just interested in the scenery).

I do think Vancouver probably has, on average, the nicest modern waterfront developments in the country (most attractive architecture, best urban design). Partly that reflects a lead from 1990-2010 that has been narrowing. 10 years ago there was a really big gap.

Some good points Someone123. Personally I like long, continuous and well integrated pedestrian waterfront that is well laid out and thought out with some beach front and beautiful vistas.

But great points on events and historical character (although Vancouver beaches usually have something going on in terms of events, plus lots of attractions at Kits and Granville Island). Victoria’s strong points are very busy inner harbour -ferry to Port Angeles, catamaran ferries to Seattle, one to Vancouver, fleet of mini harbour ferries, seaplanes, multiple docks with private boats/monster yachts, a working shipyard, etc. Always something to see and enjoy. Also, Victoria’s inner harbour walkway framed by the Empress, Parliament buildings and the Canadian Pacific Steamship building is a priceless treasure.

logan5 · #**7092** Posted **Apr 12, 2018, 4:27 AM**

Is that a plaza? Anyways, The Halifax waterfront is decent. A lot of Granville Island type feel to parts of it, but it is obviously not near as long as Vancouver's. Overall, the Vancouver waterfront would seem to offer a lot more.

Hali87 · #**7093** Posted **Apr 12, 2018, 5:44 AM**

Sort of. It's oddly underused but it's quite a large open space; last year part of it was used as an outdoor restaurant but normally it just sits mostly empty. Boats can dock alongside it though. I've always wondered why it's not used for more events, the rest of the boardwalk can be packed but Purdy's Wharf is always empty.

The Granville Island comparison is valid in a lot of ways. Almost everything about the Halifax waterfront is immediate and utilitarian, there's a high intensity and variety of uses and you just step off the boardwalk and into whatever you're doing, like a pedestrian mall with boats docking on one side (edit: Purdy's Wharf being the absolute worst example of this). Vancouver's (downtown) waterfront seemed very engineered, postmodern, spacious, and outward-focused in comparison. Just completely different.

To clarify, in NS "waterfront" almost always means "downtown waterfront". I get the sense that False Creek etc. is considered part of the Vancouver waterfront, which is news to me.

Pinion · #**7094** Posted **Apr 12, 2018, 6:25 AM**

.

logan5 · #**7095** Posted **Apr 12, 2018, 8:17 AM**

hipster duck · #**7096** Posted **Apr 12, 2018, 1:43 PM**

I can't see any scenario where Vancouver does not have the best waterfront in Canada.

I would go so far as to say that the Seawall might be the greatest asset Vancouver has - which is saying a lot.

No history? There are at least three unique historical features along the Seawall. The first is Stanley Park, a great example of late 19th century natural preservation efforts. The second is the pre-war bathing facilities at English Bay, and, finally, and more recently, there is the great 1970s-era social utopianism experiment around Granville Island with its co-ops and mixed income townhomes. And then there are leftovers from the Olympics, Expo, etc.

someone123 · #**7097** Posted **Apr 12, 2018, 4:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hali87

The Granville Island comparison is valid in a lot of ways. Almost everything about the Halifax waterfront is immediate and utilitarian, there's a high intensity and variety of uses and you just step off the boardwalk and into whatever you're doing, like a pedestrian mall with boats docking on one side (edit: Purdy's Wharf being the absolute worst example of this). Vancouver's (downtown) waterfront seemed very engineered, postmodern, spacious, and outward-focused in comparison. Just completely different.

Yep. They have a different feel and it is hard for me to pick which one I like more.

I didn't say Vancouver's waterfront is without history. But to put it into context, the oldest waterfront buildings in Halifax are large masonry warehouses built by privateers in the 1700's and early 1800's. The pier structures (many granite) and boardwalk themselves are also historic and built in a distinct style. I'm not sure if Vancouver has wooden boardwalk sections.

Halifax also has a lot more waterfront areas than just downtown. There is Point Pleasant Park and then there is the Northwest Arm seawall and Fleming Park and memorial tower. Stanley Park is certainly the more impressive natural park but then again Point Pleasant has things like a martello tower from 1796, the first one in North America. The Dingle (memorial tower) is really cool and I'm not sure anything quite like it exists elsewhere in Canada. It has a public observation deck and is packed with monuments donated from around the British empire when it was built circa 1900 (in Vancouver it would be considered quite old).

Vancouver's ferries are not as nice (no sitting outside) and it doesn't have any harbour islands, much less harbour islands with old forts on them to explore.

I think the naval facilities in Halifax are also interesting, even though they aren't directly connected to a seawall. And the mix of ship traffic in Halifax tends to be more diverse and interesting, and more culturally connected to the city. People there tend to be interested in visiting military ships or tall ships and there are famous local ships like the Bluenose II.

I also think the WDCL does a better job in Halifax of adding interesting temporary uses to stretches of the waterfront. They have little booths and shipping containers that they move around that are filled with seasonal businesses, and the parking lots are often used as event spaces. Vancouver has some of this too but not as much.

Vancouver's maritime museum is actually the less visited and much less interesting of the two, and Vancouver has no Pier 21 equivalent. Or possibly any publicly-accessible former port facilities like that.

q12 · #**7098** Posted **Apr 12, 2018, 9:05 PM**

https://twitter.com/Kissiefer1/status/980855634211102720

https://twitter.com/carrie_hotton/status/982759899565379584

https://twitter.com/inspiredxideas/status/984170095755874304

someone123 · #**7099** Posted **Apr 12, 2018, 9:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by q12

https://twitter.com/Kissiefer1/status/980855634211102720

Queen's Marque illustrates the differences in development styles between Vancouver and Halifax. Even though it is a new development, won't look like anything in Vancouver. Its footprint mimics that of old finger wharves and it is a blocky structure that will be clad largely in Wallace sandstone and metal. It's going to create a variety of tightly hemmed in spaces. It is the opposite of an airy glass condo development. It also has strong regional architectural ties in terms of form and materials.

Both styles of development have their charms. I think the point tower with setback is a nicer place to live in, while the narrower and quirkier streetscapes are more fun to explore.

The stuff about Purdy's Wharf and the skyline shots also illustrate the limitations of exploring by photos. Purdy's Wharf is really noticeable in photos but it is not a very significant potion of the waterfront in person. The finer-grained stuff is more unique and interesting:

Source

240glt · #**7100** Posted **Apr 12, 2018, 10:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I would agree. Nothing in Canada comes close to the network of paths and parks that basically skirt the entire downtown peninsula of Vancouver (and nothing but nothing beats the walk around the seawall in Stanley Park), then wrap around the bottom of False Creek past Granville Island, and then, onwards to Kits, Jericho beaches and points beyond. It is sublime. And the best I have seen anywhere, on any continent.

agreed 100%. We try to walk the seawall every time we go down. Such a spectacular amenity.

Speaking of waterfronts, we enjoyed sitting on a patio at a pub at the convention center overlooking the harbor, it's so neat to see how active the water is. We must've watched 30 or 40 seaplanes arrive and depart, cost guard helicopters, the seabus, several freighters and tankers, pleasurecraft, it's a hive of activity out there.