Wellington Street Pedestrian Mall

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by phil235

There has got to be something between the wide 4-5 lane thoroughfare that exists now and a fully closed street.

I would agree with that.

[OTownandDown]

If the Feds prefer Wellington closed, it's clear that it can't just be the desolate jersey barrier graveyard that it currently is.

And we shouldn't sit back and take it from the feds, like we normally do, so kudos to the Mayor for doing that.

The OPS calling for a security review that will take months and months is laughable. Why wasn't this security review in place 100 years ago and regularly updated? Asking for it now is a bit late and frankly negligent, and still not an excuse to not re-open the street.

The redevelopment of O'Connor and Wellington (block 2? What was it called?) is a perfect opportunity to add animation to the street level. There's no reason parliament pub can't be replaced with something similar.

The NCC just simply cannot be in charge of commercial leasing, it's not working. See: Sparks north side of the street.

NCC needs to attain a professional leasing agent, tie the agent's profit to rent, and get those friggin' units filled.

While they're at it, carve out a few more cafes and terraces along the redeveloped Wellington as part of the up-do, redesign three blocks as a 'public square' rather than a street, allowing for whatever traffic we all agree is critical, and call it a day. Tourists would pay an arm and a leg for a cappuccino and a front-row seat to stare at Parliament, just like every other major attraction in every other worldly city. As they should.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

The NCC just simply cannot be in charge of commercial leasing, it's not working. See: Sparks north side of the street.

NCC needs to attain a professional leasing agent, tie the agent's profit to rent, and get those friggin' units filled.

I don't think the NCC is involved in the Sparks Leases, it is PSPC.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/sp...bad-for-business-merchants-say-1.5339340

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I don't think the NCC is involved in the Sparks Leases, it is PSPC.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/sp...bad-for-business-merchants-say-1.5339340

Yeah, I think the NCC would do a better job. Seems Sussex storefronts have a higher occupancy than Sparks.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Yeah, I think the NCC would do a better job. Seems Sussex storefronts have a higher occupancy than Sparks.

At least they try, there are signs and numbers to call. The public works ones seem to be mostly used for storage.

[OTownandDown]

That explains it.

Inside Edge does a lot of the leasing for the NCC.

PSPC, according to the CBC just yesterday, is so cumbersome and rules-based bureaucracy that even their own employees are stifled of any creativity. I can't imagine doing creative leasing/business deals with a potential renter... lol

"If attracting retail tenants isn't a priority for PSPC, former Ottawa city councillor Peter Harris believes the department should at least consider making the ground-level spaces on the north side of the street open to the public through mini-museums or interpretation centres."

Interpretive stickers overtop of the faux stained-glass stickers are embarrassing. PSPC needs to create an RFP for a master lease of the entire block's rentable space, select the highest bidder, and allow someone else to control leasing to small business.

To say that you can't lease spaces because you're going to do restoration is dumb. The entire block is not getting restored right now, Karen. Now get some butts in the seats and animate the street.

[Admiral Nelson]

Originally Posted by acottawa

It's amazing how many people believed there was some process underway without any evidence that there was.

Originally Posted by YOWflier

Did they actually believe it or were they making stuff up to justify the closure in perpetuity? I know what I believe.

Originally Posted by acottawa

I take it this guy has never been to Washington, London, Paris, Brussels or other capital cities.

Originally Posted by YOWetal

He knows what he is saying isn't true but is trying to build a coalition

Hair-trigger accusations of lying against those whose opinion you disagree with but have no other reason to impugn suggests a lack of perspective amongst some here, and honestly, makes this thread a bit hostile.

As to comments about Toon's opinion piece, maybe I'm not as well traveled as you all but I definitely have not traveled by vehicle within 150 metres of the White House, nor have I strolled Downing Street let alone taken a car.

The author is right, at least for the executive branch, the PMO in Ottawa is not secure the way equivalents are internationally.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Admiral Nelson

Hair-trigger accusations of lying against those whose opinion you disagree with but have no other reason to impugn suggests a lack of perspective amongst some here, and honestly, makes this thread a bit hostile.

As to comments about Toon's opinion piece, maybe I'm not as well traveled as you all but I definitely have not traveled by vehicle within 150 metres of the White House, nor have I strolled Downing Street let alone taken a car.

The author is right, at least for the executive branch, the PMO in Ottawa is not secure the way equivalents are internationally.

The PMO building is where the PM’s staff are located, it is not his residence (Rideau Cottage) or where he habitually works (his office in the West Block). So it is not in any way equivalent to the White House and Downing Street. Equivalent staff buildings such as the Old Executive Office Building or the Cabinet Office are on roads facing traffic.

If you look at your London map you will note that Downing is a side street, all the main thoroughfares in the area (Parliament Street/Whitehall) are open to traffic, as are all the streets surrounding the Houses of Parliament. You will also note if you look at the street view that Downing is closed to pedestrians and cyclists as well, it is not a linear park or whatever people are calling for here.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by acottawa

The PMO building is where the PM’s staff are located, it is not his residence (Rideau Cottage) or where he habitually works (his office in the West Block). So it is not in any way equivalent to the White House and Downing Street. Equivalent staff buildings such as the Old Executive Office Building or the Cabinet Office are on roads facing traffic.

I don’t think the distinction that you are making actually holds up. The White House, Downing Street and Langevin are all the locations of the PM/President’s office, so it would stand to reason that they would need roughly equivalent security. Is there a reason that you think their office needs less security than their residence?

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by phil235

I don’t think the distinction that you are making actually holds up. The White House, Downing Street and Langevin are all the locations of the PM/President’s office, so it would stand to reason that they would need roughly equivalent security. Is there a reason that you think their office needs less security than their residence?

I think the distinction is the two uses of the word “office.”

In London and Washington we are using “office” to mean the physical space where the PM/President goes to work in the morning, receives visitors, etc.

In Ottawa we are using “office” to mean staffers.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I think the distinction is the two uses of the word “office.”

In London and Washington we are using “office” to mean the physical space where the PM/President goes to work in the morning, receives visitors, etc.

In Ottawa we are using “office” to mean staffers.

Don’t think so. The PM’s office is in that building as well as far as I know.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by phil235

Don’t think so. The PM’s office is in that building as well as far as I know.

This is why it is hard to have a reasonable discussion on this topic.

This is the office the PM uses, it is clearly in the west block.

https://pm.gc.ca/en/photos/2022/11/29/pr...ts-assembly-first-nations-national-chief

https://pm.gc.ca/en/photos/2022/11/23/pr...eets-opposition-leader-belarus-sviatlana

https://pm.gc.ca/en/photos/2022/10/24/pr...udeau-meets-mayor-edmonton-amarjeet-sohi

[phil235]

Originally Posted by acottawa

This is why it is hard to have a reasonable discussion on this topic.

This is the office the PM uses, it is clearly in the west block.

https://pm.gc.ca/en/photos/2022/11/29/pr...ts-assembly-first-nations-national-chief

https://pm.gc.ca/en/photos/2022/11/23/pr...eets-opposition-leader-belarus-sviatlana

https://pm.gc.ca/en/photos/2022/10/24/pr...udeau-meets-mayor-edmonton-amarjeet-sohi

We can’t have a reasonable discussion because I suggest that one of the points you are stating as fact may not be accurate? Seems a little over the top.

I don’t think that this series of photo ops actually demonstrates much. My understanding is that the PM has an office on the hill, but that his actual working office is in the former Langevin building. There are numerous references to that in the media. This National Post article suggests that he performs the majority of his functions from Langevin:

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/fir...3e39856-11c5-48c9-8bd3-b8683f88d84a/amp/

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by phil235

We can’t have a reasonable discussion because I suggest that one of the points you are stating as fact may not be accurate? Seems a little over the top.

I don’t think that this series of photo ops actually demonstrates much. My understanding is that the PM has an office on the hill, but that his actual working office is in the former Langevin building. There are numerous references to that in the media. This National Post article suggests that he performs the majority of his functions from Langevin:

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/fir...3e39856-11c5-48c9-8bd3-b8683f88d84a/amp/

I am not sure what they are basing that on other than a 10 year old photo of Stephen Harper. You can tell when the PM is at the former Langevin building, there are a bunch of black SUV’s parked outside. It is a fairly rare occasion. In contrast Biden is in the White a House nearly all of his time in DC.

Anyway, to the extent there needs to be a larger security perimeter they could easily build a fence and gobble a lane of traffic as they did for DND on Colonel By or for the US Embassy on Sussex. They could also close the Blackburn building retail and build a security fence on Sparks.

[HypoteMoose]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I am not sure what they are basing that on other than a 10 year old photo of Stephen Harper.

The Prime Miniter's official contact address is 80 Wellington Street. If you google "Prime Minister's Office Canada," every source will tell you their office is in the Langevin building.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by HypoteMoose

The Prime Miniter's official contact address is 80 Wellington Street. If you google "Prime Minister's Office Canada," every source will tell you their office is in the Langevin building.

Yes, that is the mailing address of the government institution called the “office of the Prime Minister.” That does not mean it his habitual workplace or the place he received visitors. The PMO website has lots of photos of the PM working in an office, meeting people in an office, taking calls in an office, etc. and none of them appear to be taken in 80 Wellington. Most of them appear to be taken in the West Block (and before that closed the Centre Block).

[JHikka]

Langevin Block was renamed in 2017 because Father of Confederation Hector-Louis Langevin helped in setting up the residential school system. The building is currently known as the Office of the Prime Minister and Privy Council because, well, it's where the Office of the Prime Minister is located.

Here's a picture of the interior with Parliament outside.



To go through this much effort to twist the definition of 'Office of the Prime Minister' to support an argument that Wellington shouldn't be shut down to vehicular traffic is quite the reach, i'll give acottawa that.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by JHikka

To go through this much effort to twist the definition of 'Office of the Prime Minister' to support an argument that Wellington shouldn't be shut down to vehicular traffic is quite the reach, i'll give acottawa that.

That is clearly the PM’s Centre block office. You can tell by the gothic windows (former Langevin has romanesque windows).

If you don’t believe me it is on google maps.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/P53zq94NeMbvPMSz8?g_st=ic

Nice try though.

To demand the permanent closure of a 5 lane road because the PM periodically visits an office there, when security considerations in Ottawa have at most closed a lane for the US Embassy, is quite a reach, I will give you that.

[JHikka]

Whatever. This is a dumb conversation anyway; this weird fascination ensuring that we're allowed to drive our cars wherever we like with impunity lest we lose some constitutional right to our livelihoods. Canada affords its citizens and tourists far more access to these buildings than nearly anywhere else in the world and implying that closing a street down to vehicular traffic only is akin to totalitarianism is, again, ridiculous. It doesn't matter whether the PM has an office on the south side of the street or the north side of the street because it's effectively the same anyway.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Whatever. This is a dumb conversation anyway; this weird fascination ensuring that we're allowed to drive our cars wherever we like with impunity lest we lose some constitutional right to our livelihoods. Canada affords its citizens and tourists far more access to these buildings than nearly anywhere else in the world and implying that closing a street down to vehicular traffic only is akin to totalitarianism is, again, ridiculous. It doesn't matter whether the PM has an office on the south side of the street or the north side of the street because it's effectively the same anyway.

The PM office in West Block is nowhere near Wellington street, the Centre Block office is even further. The Kremlin is less paranoid about security than some of the people on this thread.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/uTvZvgCAdSQZM1ob7?g_st=ic

I know for some people this is some sort of great ideological crusade. For more pragmatic people, creating a monument to convoy victory by reserving a 5 lane road for the exclusive use of politicians, creating a creepy zombie apocalypse wasteland most of the time, while a committee commissions a study that will look at options is a dumb idea. If the study comes up with some great idea for an alternative use of he street, and somebody is willing to pay for it then great, in the meantime a mixed use street is better than a politician street.