DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[ejwill04]

Wow! Rino is getting a mad number of office proposals lately. Here's a 10-story office proposal at 31st and Brighton. Add it to the list!
https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/2019/09/08/mystery-developer-10-story-rino.html

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by ejwill04

Wow! Rino is getting a mad number of office proposals lately. Here's a 10-story office proposal at 31st and Brighton. Add it to the list!
https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/2019/09/08/mystery-developer-10-story-rino.html

Source


Keep this between the two of us but I suspect we might have a single tenant user that's behind this.

Consider:
Block 162 - 30 story tower = 595,000 SF
Mystery proposal - 10 story = 554,280 SF

[BG918]

Originally Posted by ejwill04

Wow! Rino is getting a mad number of office proposals lately. Here's a 10-story office proposal at 31st and Brighton. Add it to the list!
https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/2019/09/08/mystery-developer-10-story-rino.html

Yep and it's sucking the wind out of the rest of downtown. All of those 10-16 story office buildings could be a couple of 40+ story towers in the core.

[Agent Orange]

Originally Posted by BG918

Yep and it's sucking the wind out of the rest of downtown. All of those 10-16 story office buildings could be a couple of 40+ story towers in the core.

Yeah I can't help but wonder to what degree Opportunity Zoning is exacerbating this trend. This is the sort of (maybe) well intentioned government market intervention that riles up my inner libertarian. Without OZ we'd probably see employment more concentrated in the CBD which is closer to transit and other amenities. Just when we built out one low rise district which was reducing pressure to build in the high rise part of downtown, we get another. RIP Tabor 2 fourth round.

Not to mention the hyper displacement Whittier, Cole and Five Points will see with so many high paying jobs soon to be a short walk away.

[DenverInfill]

Yes it might be nice if all these RiNo office buildings were CBD high-rises, but really this is still very much to the benefit of downtown in general. RiNo is a downtown-adjacent district that, as it densifies, will likely be considered part of "downtown", if it isn't considered that already. People who live and work in downtown may be more sensitive to these intra-urban core district boundaries, but for much of the metro area, RiNo is downtown. With the 38th & Blake station, more bike/ped infrastructure, and tons of residential, the distinction between LoDo/Union Station/Union Station North/RiNo becomes blurrier every day.

[BG918]

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

Yes it might be nice if all these RiNo office buildings were CBD high-rises, but really this is still very much to the benefit of downtown in general. RiNo is a downtown-adjacent district that, as it densifies, will likely be considered part of "downtown", if it isn't considered that already. People who live and work in downtown may be more sensitive to these intra-urban core district boundaries, but for much of the metro area, RiNo is downtown. With the 38th & Blake station, more bike/ped infrastructure, and tons of residential, the distinction between LoDo/Union Station/Union Station North/RiNo becomes blurrier every day.

Don't get me wrong I love to see the redevelopment of RiNo and former industrial areas closer to I-70. As a new Stapleton resident I like that I have such easy access to the growing north side of "downtown" and expect growth to continue migrating east along 40th especially if Denver Rock Drill and Smokestack 40 actually take off. At the same time I wish Denver could've seen more tall towers downtown during this development cycle.

I hope the A line develops a set of dense TOD's around the stations which is already happening at 38th & Blake and could happen (eventually) at Central Park Station. Since I live next to it that is the one I'm most interested in and think it could support Union Station-level density in the blocks next to the station. Not sure about the long-term prospects around Colorado Station but with Park Hill Golf Course getting developed who knows. Same for Peoria Station, it seems like any kind of major development there is a ways off. Pena Station is starting to develop and could one day be a large TOD as part of the larger "Airport City".

[CherryCreek]

Interesting plans for the 18 story building near Belleview and I25 (right next to the Western Union headquarters building).


Although earlier the word was that it would simply be a hotel. Businessden is reporting that it would mostly be office, but would also include a hotel, with lots of ground floor retail:

The plans show the building would have retail, restaurant and lobby space on the ground floor, and amenities, including a pool, conference room and fitness area on the second floor. Above that would be five floors of hotel rooms, approximately 236 rooms in all, topped by 11 stories of office space.

In all, 355,419 square feet would be devoted to office use, compared to 145,651 square feet of hotel rooms. There would be three levels of underground parking.

https://businessden.com/2019/09/09/hotel...on-plans-involve-more-office-than-rooms/

The Belleview station TOD is really looking solid!

[Denvergotback]

Don’t get me wrong, I would love to see a lot of these developments be packed into 3 or 4 40+ story buildings in the CBD, but holy crap I am loving the addition of RiNo (and Alameda area) it may not be the most spectacular buildings but every time I drive down i70 and up onto the i25 corridor, it just making Denver’s urban scape seem massive (for a city its size) I can’t wait until it’s mostly filled in all of their gaps and really contribute to an endless urban canyon

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by CherryCreek

Of course, if it passes everywhere then its easy to see a scenario where local governments simply go along with it, given the voter preferences.

Even with Denver's new 'commie council' I can't see the big D just sitting back and taking this on it's heels. Denver will fight this tooth and nail via home rule - it's the municipality with the most to lose from 1% growth, which would essentially limit Denver to roughly 1,300 building permits a year (not projects, but housing units). Remember, this only applies to housing, nothing else. The initiative would be catastrophic to all of Denver's economic development and long term business outlooks.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by CherryCreek

Interesting plans for the 18 story building near Belleview and I25 (right next to the Western Union headquarters building).

So just over 500,000 SF; definitely another Big add to the DTC - Belleview Station.

Hot Topic
Mayor Hancock is warning about the meager two percent growth in the proposed 2020 General Fund due to slowing construction, slower auto sales and consumer goods purchases in general. This year's $1.49 billion General Fund proposal compares to last years $1.46 billion proposal.

In addition to basic needs like more firefighters and police officers the city is still adding to the growing bureaucracy with yet more new agencies with new personal - largely to accommodate the many various special interests. I assume that the great majority of proposed spending was already promised via previous 'releases' and plans.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by laniroj

Even with Denver's new 'commie council' I can't see the big D just sitting back and taking this on it's heels. Denver will fight this tooth and nail via home rule - it's the municipality with the most to lose from 1% growth, which would essentially limit Denver to roughly 1,300 building permits a year (not projects, but housing units). Remember, this only applies to housing, nothing else. The initiative would be catastrophic to all of Denver's economic development and long term business outlooks.

I don't even understand how this works. Does 1% refer to population meaning with Denver's over 700,000 peeps they'd be allowed to grow over 7,000 new residents per year. If it's based on the current number of permits issues then again that seems relatively harmless in Denver's case with all the current permitting.

Because Denver (County) is largely built out compared to other counties this doesn't seem all that threatening over the near term. Supposedly it couldn't be changed until 2023. BUT there's more than enough already in Denver's pipeline assuming the many projects that could break ground before this even goes into effect that at least in the near term I see little impact on Denver.

[COtoOC]

Originally Posted by CherryCreek

Interesting plans for the 18 story building near Belleview and I25 (right next to the Western Union headquarters building).


Although earlier the word was that it would simply be a hotel. Businessden is reporting that it would mostly be office, but would also include a hotel, with lots of ground floor retail:

The plans show the building would have retail, restaurant and lobby space on the ground floor, and amenities, including a pool, conference room and fitness area on the second floor. Above that would be five floors of hotel rooms, approximately 236 rooms in all, topped by 11 stories of office space.

In all, 355,419 square feet would be devoted to office use, compared to 145,651 square feet of hotel rooms. There would be three levels of underground parking.

https://businessden.com/2019/09/09/hotel...on-plans-involve-more-office-than-rooms/

The Belleview station TOD is really looking solid!

I drive through there every day and love what's going on. The new buildings just keep coming!

I work in Lone Tree and looking north from our building, there is a very solid "tech center" (and surrounding area) skyline view, with downtown off in the distance behind it. You can take a pretty good picture with two skylines and a mountain backdrop.

[CherryCreek]

Originally Posted by COtoOC

I drive through there every day and love what's going on. The new buildings just keep coming!

I work in Lone Tree and looking north from our building, there is a very solid "tech center" (and surrounding area) skyline view, with downtown off in the distance behind it. You can take a pretty good picture with two skylines and a mountain backdrop.

If it all gets built, it can become the "downtown" of the tech center, with multiple mid rise offices (up to 20 stories), hotels, restaurants, retail, and residences within easy walking distance, just a few blocks of each of each and of light rail. It will be an added irony that the first truly urban part of the Tech Center gets built on the Denver side of the border.

[BG918]

Originally Posted by CherryCreek

If it all gets built, it can become the "downtown" of the tech center, with multiple mid rise offices (up to 20 stories), hotels, restaurants, retail, and residences within easy walking distance, just a few blocks of each of each and of light rail. It will be an added irony that the first truly urban part of the Tech Center gets built on the Denver side of the border.

I don't know it still doesn't feel "urban" even with all of the added density because it's an island sandwiched between Belleview, I-25, garden-style apartments to the north and huge lot mega-mansions to the west. It reminds me of the high density commercial developments that line the highways in Dallas and Houston. Too bad a lot of these projects planned for Belleview Station aren't happening in more connected TOD's like I-25/Broadway or Colorado Station.

[CherryCreek]

Originally Posted by BG918

I don't know it still doesn't feel "urban" even with all of the added density because it's an island sandwiched between Belleview, I-25, garden-style apartments to the north and huge lot mega-mansions to the west. It reminds me of the high density commercial developments that line the highways in Dallas and Houston. Too bad a lot of these projects planned for Belleview Station aren't happening in more connected TOD's like I-25/Broadway or Colorado Station.

I don't disagree. I wish the residential stuff built around Belleview Station was more dense (like 10 to 20 story stuff) instead of the 3 to 4 story stuff that's there. Somewhat of a lost opportunity.

[COtoOC]

Originally Posted by CherryCreek

If it all gets built, it can become the "downtown" of the tech center, with multiple mid rise offices (up to 20 stories), hotels, restaurants, retail, and residences within easy walking distance, just a few blocks of each of each and of light rail. It will be an added irony that the first truly urban part of the Tech Center gets built on the Denver side of the border.

Well, it's denser that some other suburban office parks I've seen. Is there a height limit? The obviously tallest down by Arapahoe looks like its a little over 20 stories.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by BG918

I don't know it still doesn't feel "urban" even with all of the added density because it's an island sandwiched between Belleview, I-25, garden-style apartments to the north and huge lot mega-mansions to the west. It reminds me of the high density commercial developments that line the highways in Dallas and Houston. Too bad a lot of these projects planned for Belleview Station aren't happening in more connected TOD's like I-25/Broadway or Colorado Station.

It's all about the history of DTC.

Going back to the 1980's thru the early 2000's that corner wasn't even considered the tech center and wasn't desirable. The good news is that along came light rail and the Belleview Station. That slice of land was generally a blank slate; there was a driving range and some mish-mash so it was at least ripe for TOD to occur.

I believe Monoco is the Denver boundary line and to the west is Cherry Hills Village. Back then the notion of mixed-use was not a part of the vernacular. All that open land to the north was held by the Koelbel family awaiting development demand. Given the times that land was viewed as modest density for generally upscale residential. If one could turn back the clock it's amazing the potential for that area with today's vision of mixed-use, mixed density development.

[TakeFive]

Now I know
cuz I seen it with me own eyes.

They're building all those McGregor Square buildings at the same time.
I know, much thanks to RyanD's great photo work at DenverInfill.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

BUT there's more than enough already in Denver's pipeline assuming the many projects that could break ground before this even goes into effect that at least in the near term I see little impact on Denver.

What would lead you to believe there is already enough in Denver's pipeline? Are vacancies heading up fast and rents are coming down? Is for-sale inventory spiking and home prices decreasing? How, precisely, is Denver's pipeline currently keeping up with demand when our rental and for-sale housing markets remain unbalanced? By the way, you may have seen Hancock's remarks on the slowing development fees the City is collecting...our pipeline is already slowing down substantially.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by COtoOC

Well, it's denser that some other suburban office parks I've seen. Is there a height limit? The obviously tallest down by Arapahoe looks like its a little over 20 stories.

Pretty sure that on the east side of I-25 (north of Belleview) the zoning was the same as the downtown core or B-8. Chances are it's the same over there.

Originally Posted by laniroj

What would lead you to believe there is already enough in Denver's pipeline? Are vacancies heading up fast and rents are coming down?

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