Phoenix Development News (3)

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by PHX31

What is the NWC of 3rd St and Roosevelt?

Is the old Scientology Building coming down? Maybe I missed something.

Yes, along with the adjacent Greenhaus building.

[PHX31]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Yes, along with the adjacent Greenhaus building.

I guess I missed the part about the Scientology Building.

Still a shame about the Greenhaus building. It's always a lose-win situation when talking about any kind of development downtown, regardless of the fact there are a million empty lots out there.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by PHX31

I guess I missed the part about the Scientology Building.

Still a shame about the Greenhaus building. It's always a lose-win situation when talking about any kind of development downtown, regardless of the fact there are a million empty lots out there.

Agreed. I won't shed a tear when the Scientology building is demolished, but it would have been nice to see a new development wrap around the Greenhaus in some way.

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by combusean

I called to get site plans, but couldn't as the plans are sealed, however the planner was able to give me the following details:

Both structures are 70' in height, with 104 units/63.3 du/acre on the SWC and 111 units/82.2 du/acre on the NWC of 3rd and Roosevelt.

No ground-floor retail in either. Sucks that Millbrae, California or Bethesda, Maryland gets better developments than downtown Phoenix these days.

Yikes. I can understand to some degree that we have demanded too much ground floor retail in some places. However, right on Roosevelt and there's none? That's insanity.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

Yikes. I can understand to some degree that we have demanded too much ground floor retail in some places. However, right on Roosevelt and there's none? That's insanity.

As was pointed out earlier in the discussion, the ground floor retail in Roosevelt Point is vacant, so why build more across the street? I used to support ground floor retail whenever possible, but now that I see so much of it vacant all over I've changed my mind. I'd rather have no more ground floor retail, regardless of location, until we see better occupancy of that which has already been created. I've heard many people, on this forum and elsewhere, argue that we need to create ground floor retail in anticipation of future density, but having too much blight in the form of vacant retail space will slow our efforts to increase density. If I were looking for an apartment, vacant storefronts on the ground floor would be a negative in my evaluation of a building and make me more likely to lease elsewhere.

[Jjs5056]

Roosevelt - especially Roosevelt Row in general - is enviable for the fact it's known as the only true, walkable, "urban" area in Phoenix. What is the point of moving to a centralized location when there aren't spaces available for you to get your hair cut, do your laundry, pick up quick groceries, etc.? Roosevelt Street, with its lucious 20' sidewalks, should definitely have retail along its entire stretch downtown. It just needs to be built smartly: live/work units fronting the street, with traditional townhomes in the back, for example; or even just a retail space facing an intersection with walk-ups for the remaining ground level residential units. Or, at the very least, space like Alta/Skyline has set aside for gallery exhibitions. But, walls of dead space are not in the best interest for that neighborhood's vitality, and it isn't the vision the City has seemed to want, either through Urban Form, or based on the fact that they are extended sidewalks and trying to transform it into more of a Boulevard. Single-use structures aren't in line with those goals.

The retail in that area is failing because not a single housing project aside from Roosevelt Pointe has been built in the last 5+ years. It is going to take increased density for the retail to be successful given the decimated nature of Evans Churchill; will 70' 100-unit apartments really be enough to make a difference? I don't know. But, together with Union, McKinley/4th (see this for a great way of integrating a mix of live/work), Portland on the Park, etc. demand will only continue to build.

As for the Pappas School, I have long wondered what the fate of that land would be. And, I like everything that's being said in the article - I just hope it isn't all smoke and mirrors. I love that they'll be dividing it into a smaller street grid. I'd love to see the Maricopa Corporate Community College locate to the southern-most portion, with a mixture of various dense housing developments filling in the rest. The ownership rate in that area is dismal so hopefully a good mix of owner-occupied residential is part of the mix, with live/work options in the inner neighborhoods, and mixed use taller structures near Fillmore. It would also be neat to see the Taylor Mall continued all the way through to 7th Ave, with a Taylor Park incorporated into the development.

[soleri]

This points out why clear-cutting is so deadly to genuine urban growth. There has to be some scaffolding in place for that growth to occur, and nothing serves that better than older buildings. Without the stock of traditional urban infrastructure, you end up with sterile retail spaces that are both overpriced and over-restricted (that is, no dive bars, greasy spoons, pawn shops, etc., that evolve into better uses as gentrification occurs). This is why you need real-estate people savvy enough to understand the terrain they're working in. In a better city they will carry enough clout that can translate that into powerful lobbying at the legislature. Phoenix is hamstrung here by its clueless civic stewards who are powerless to combat an increasingly anti-urban bias at the legislature where land-use laws are written. As always, this points out why cities grow organically rather than simply by fiat. Roosevelt Row cannot be commanded to be vibrant absent actual human beings involved in real-world activities. Downtown Phoenix fell for Sim City fantasies during the boom years and now is left with vast, unwelcoming spaces to fill. 50 years of lollapalooza projects and this is what you've got to show for it: a city too theoretical to grow itself.

[somethingfast]

Originally Posted by soleri

This points out why clear-cutting is so deadly to genuine urban growth. There has to be some scaffolding in place for that growth to occur, and nothing serves that better than older buildings. Without the stock of traditional urban infrastructure, you end up with sterile retail spaces that are both overpriced and over-restricted (that is, no dive bars, greasy spoons, pawn shops, etc., that evolve into better uses as gentrification occurs). This is why you need real-estate people savvy enough to understand the terrain they're working in. In a better city they will carry enough clout that can translate that into powerful lobbying at the legislature. Phoenix is hamstrung here by its clueless civic stewards who are powerless to combat an increasingly anti-urban bias at the legislature where land-use laws are written. As always, this points out why cities grow organically rather than simply by fiat. Roosevelt Row cannot be commanded to be vibrant absent actual human beings involved in real-world activities. Downtown Phoenix fell for Sim City fantasies during the boom years and now is left with vast, unwelcoming spaces to fill. 50 years of lollapalooza projects and this is what you've got to show for it: a city too theoretical to grow itself.

well said

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

As was pointed out earlier in the discussion, the ground floor retail in Roosevelt Point is vacant, so why build more across the street? I used to support ground floor retail whenever possible, but now that I see so much of it vacant all over I've changed my mind. I'd rather have no more ground floor retail, regardless of location, until we see better occupancy of that which has already been created. I've heard many people, on this forum and elsewhere, argue that we need to create ground floor retail in anticipation of future density, but having too much blight in the form of vacant retail space will slow our efforts to increase density. If I were looking for an apartment, vacant storefronts on the ground floor would be a negative in my evaluation of a building and make me more likely to lease elsewhere.

I think the problem with a lot of the ground floor retail we've seen that sits empty is it's just horribly designed. It's either on the wrong street, or has huge ventilation boxes in front of it, doesn't have on street parking in front of it, is totally unfinished inside w/ dirt floors on the inside thus demanding huge amounts of tenant improvements.

I wonder how much more of the available ground floor retail space would be filled if these issues weren't present.

But in general I agree with you, it's just a street like Roosevelt I'd like to see fully lined with ground floor uses.

[westbev93]

Anybody know what is going on in the building directly south of the Artisan Lofts building across the street from the library? The whole front of the building was open and there were crews inside.

[PHX31]

/\ I'm pretty sure a church bought the building and will be moving in to it. Glad there is some sort of reno happening.

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by PHX31

/\ I'm pretty sure a church bought the building and will be moving in to it. Glad there is some sort of reno happening.

Yes, City Square Church. http://citysquarechurch.org

Glad it's being used. I kind of wish it was another use though, something that would keep it active more often. But I know they're very community centric in their mission, so hopefully they'll have a lot of events and keep the space activated.

[dtnphx]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

Yes, City Square Church. http://citysquarechurch.org

Glad it's being used. I kind of wish it was another use though, something that would keep it active more often. But I know they're very community centric in their mission, so hopefully they'll have a lot of events and keep the space activated.

I generally cringe when I hear the word church, but they seem quite welcoming and diverse and a perfect fit Downtown. Hopefully they can provide outreach to the many homeless in the area and also be a gathering spot for the community.

[phxKent]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

Yes, City Square Church. http://citysquarechurch.org

Glad it's being used. I kind of wish it was another use though, something that would keep it active more often. But I know they're very community centric in their mission, so hopefully they'll have a lot of events and keep the space activated.

Just a correction... it is New City Church. Here is some info:

http://newcityphx.com/faqsfor1300ncentralave/

[dtnphx]

Originally Posted by phxKent

Just a correction... it is New City Church. Here is some info:

http://newcityphx.com/faqsfor1300ncentralave/

My cringe has returned. Never mind my post from above. Different sh*t altogether!

[PHX31]

I saw the Arizona Preservation Foundation post this on Facebook:

Lots of historic preservation activity in downtown PHOENIX this morning. The RFP for the renovation of the 1915 Jefferson Hotel and adjacent vacant parcels passed the City Council's Downtown, Aviation, and Redevelopment Subcommittee. Work progresses on the interior of First Baptist Church (see photo). Fencing is up around the 1931 Professional Building (see photo). And out of cell camera view, big pieces of equipment were seen being moved into the 1928 DeSoto Building.

It's not always bad news when it comes to Downtown Phoenix and HP.

[rocksteady]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

I think the problem with a lot of the ground floor retail we've seen that sits empty is it's just horribly designed. It's either on the wrong street, or has huge ventilation boxes in front of it, doesn't have on street parking in front of it, is totally unfinished inside w/ dirt floors on the inside thus demanding huge amounts of tenant improvements.

I wonder how much more of the available ground floor retail space would be filled if these issues weren't present.

But in general I agree with you, it's just a street like Roosevelt I'd like to see fully lined with ground floor uses.

Agreed! Have the retail spaces at the bottom of Copper Summit filled up yet? I always figured something there would do well since it is right across from the ballpark...but that building has been plagued with so many problems I'm sure it has scared everyone away. Has it EVER had a tenant in its existence? What is it zoned for? Seems like a restaurant/bar with some patio seating would do awesome on game days.

[Jackdavis4]

I think I saw a crane getting ready to be put up for the garage for the biomedical campus.

[ASU Diablo]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

Speaking recently of the Biltmore area, this is good news:
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...o-get-10m.html

The Esplanade retail has always been totally cut off from the street and cut off any energy from the Biltmore across the tunnel. It'll be nice to see it opened up - too bad other developments, like AZ Center, can't get the same hint.

Found this rendering for the renovation...

[dtnphx]

Nothing is really changing except that they're removing the long slung metal arches that defined the center and raising the sight lines. Definitely an improvement to what's there, but with the underpass that it faces it diminishes it's impact.