Public Disorder & the Decline of Vancouver's Livability

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

Do you care showing something from 2020 to 2022?

Again using a misleading chart.

If you nuke downtown today and hollow-out the city centre by killing off the population, the chart you are showing, from 2016 to 2021 still shows downtown leading in population growth.

Today's Rental Market Report from CMHC shows the rental vacancy rate for Vancouver went down from 2.6% in October 2020 to 1.2% in October 2021. (In the same period the vacancy rate in Toronto went up from 3.4% to 4.6%). Vancouver had the lowest vacancy rate of any Canadian city - and it also has the lowest vacancy rate in office space. There are obviously problems in the city, and the region, but lack of demand, or suggesting people and businesses are leaving just isn't true. Unless you care to show something from 2022 to 2022 to show that it is?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Vin

Do you care showing something from 2020 to 2022?

Again using a misleading chart.

If you nuke downtown today and hollow-out the city centre by killing off the population, the chart you are showing, from 2016 to 2021 still shows downtown leading in population growth.

This is StatCan information from a few weeks ago. Remember the big census we had? Come up with your own information to dispute mine. Otherwise you are simply trolling.

If you married your aunt you'd be your own uncle.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

This is StatCan information from a few weeks ago. Remember the big census we had? Come up with your own information to dispute mine. Otherwise you are simply trolling.

If you married your aunt you'd be your own uncle.

Of course downtown would take in the most number of people in Vancouver since there are almost no mass housing created outside the core, safe for a couple of token neighbourhoods.

My point is, with the decay of downtown, more businesses and people are not attracted to the downtown core. If you want to dispute my statement, you should be using charts showing population changes in downtown Vancouver versus other municipalities. Also these last few years have seen a massive decline of downtown Vancouver, so even though 2016-2018 may see lots of people moving here compared to other neighbourhoods of CoV, who's to say what's happening from 2019-2022?

With what you just did, you might as well use a Statscan chart showing population growths from 1800 to 2021. It would still show that downtown is enjoying the most amount of growth. Kapish?

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Today's Rental Market Report from CMHC shows the rental vacancy rate for Vancouver went down from 2.6% in October 2020 to 1.2% in October 2021. (In the same period the vacancy rate in Toronto went up from 3.4% to 4.6%). Vancouver had the lowest vacancy rate of any Canadian city - and it also has the lowest vacancy rate in office space. There are obviously problems in the city, and the region, but lack of demand, or suggesting people and businesses are leaving just isn't true. Unless you care to show something from 2022 to 2022 to show that it is?

Hey, if you want to dispute this, then bring it up with BIV:
Editorial: Is chronic downtown decay our destiny?
https://biv.com/article/2022/02/edit...ay-our-destiny

Their Editorial mentioned "hollowing out" of downtown, then published the article online. They said it, not me. Why target a minnow like myself and not shout down the big fish BIV?

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

Hey, if you want to dispute this, then bring it up with BIV:
Editorial: Is chronic downtown decay our destiny?
https://biv.com/article/2022/02/edit...ay-our-destiny

Their Editorial mentioned "hollowing out" of downtown, then published the article online. They said it, not me. Why target a minnow like myself and not shout down the big fish BIV?

It's in "Business in Vancouver", so I would assume they're talking about businesses Downtown when they say "hollowed out" - not people living there. We've seen businesses close (like the Smak chain, that was owned by the son of the co-founder of Business In Vancouver) but that's related to covid, as the article notes. Overall business licences aren't down this year, and new retail is starting to open up where they closed over the past two years. (Note the editorial is, unusually, unsigned. So we don't know who wrote it).

Clearly the number of people working Downtown on any one day is still far less than before covid. Lots of people are working from home, although that's slowly changing, as the transit use numbers show. It's not like the pandemic is over, although BIV's Editor, Kirk LaPointe, the failed NPA mayoral candidate, says Bonnie Henry shouldn't be deciding how things go forward: "What we are finding is that it is far easier to shut down an economy than to restart it, so we need a different form of leadership to emerge as the prime daily driver." So he certainly seems to think that aspects of the economy have "hollowed out".

The BIV piece doesn't say anything about residents leaving, and all the evidence is that the Downtown residential population is growing. The census data that Warren produced shows that. The rental vacancy shows that. In 2016 there were 4,929 dwellings 'not occupied by usual residents' Downtown. In 2021 that had fallen to 4,112. Overall there were 4,495 more occupied dwellings in Downtown in 2021 than five years earlier. Vancouver overall grew by over 30,000, and over a quarter of the growth was Downtown. To remind you of the headline in one of your go-to sources of information, Daily Hive "Downtown Vancouver is Canada's most densely populated city centre"

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Vin

My point is, with the decay of downtown, more businesses and people are not attracted to the downtown core. If you want to dispute my statement, you should be using charts showing population changes in downtown Vancouver versus other municipalities.

Feel free to provide any data you think needs providing. Downtown is growing very quickly. Your pretzel logic aside, people really want to live there, and businesses are demanding office space there too.

Originally Posted by Vin

Also these last few years have seen a massive decline of downtown Vancouver, so even though 2016-2018 may see lots of people moving here compared to other neighbourhoods of CoV, who's to say what's happening from 2019-2022?

Again, feel free to prove that.

Originally Posted by Vin

With what you just did, you might as well use a Statscan chart showing population growths from 1800 to 2021. It would still show that downtown is enjoying the most amount of growth. Kapish?

They do a census every 5 years. The most recent data is literally the opposite of what you parrot on here every day.

Your feelings aren't facts.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

What part of this is hollowed out?

Probably the CBD.

[NewfBC]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

The COV has sent police officers to Ottawa for support.

I guess they're bored with nothing to do here?

Ron.

VPD officers in Ottawa are now being investigated for discharging weapons...

https://siu.on.ca/siu-investigating-repo...scharges-at-ottawa-demonstrations-en7495

On Saturday, February 19 at approximately 7:18 p.m. Vancouver Police Department officers discharged Anti-Riot Weapon Enfields (less-lethal firearms) at individuals in the area of Sparks Street and Bank Street.

Ron.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

VPD officers in Ottawa are now being investigated for discharging weapons that injured protestors...

https://siu.on.ca/siu-investigating-repo...scharges-at-ottawa-demonstrations-en7495

On Saturday, February 19 at approximately 7:18 p.m. Vancouver Police Department officers discharged Anti-Riot Weapon Enfields (less-lethal firearms) at individuals in the area of Sparks Street and Bank Street.

Ron.

On Saturday, February 19 at approximately 7:18 p.m. Vancouver Police Department officers discharged Anti-Riot Weapon Enfields (less-lethal firearms) at individuals in the area of Sparks Street and Bank Street.

No injuries have been reported at this time.

[NewfBC]

Originally Posted by Changing City

On Saturday, February 19 at approximately 7:18 p.m. Vancouver Police Department officers discharged Anti-Riot Weapon Enfields (less-lethal firearms) at individuals in the area of Sparks Street and Bank Street.

No injuries have been reported at this time.

Updated.. got it mixed up with the horse incident.

Ron.

[s211]

Forgive me, but:

• Does the VPD have any legal jurisdiction to exercise police duties outside the boundaries of Vancouver?
• Vancouver thinks it has a surplus of police officers, while our city has all appearances of being under-policed?
• Will Vancouver also now be providing support to disperse all forms of public dissent across the country, regardless of ideology?
• Are Vancouverite tax dollars being used for this initiative?

Where was the debate that led to the decision to send VPD a few thousand km away to do someone else's job?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by s211

Forgive me, but:

• Does the VPD have any legal jurisdiction to exercise police duties outside the boundaries of Vancouver?
• Vancouver thinks it has a surplus of police officers, while our city has all appearances of being under-policed?
• Will Vancouver also now be providing support to disperse all forms of public dissent across the country, regardless of ideology?
• Are Vancouverite tax dollars being used for this initiative?

Where was the debate that led to the decision to send VPD a few thousand km away to do someone else's job?

This was all due to the federal Emergency Act. I'm sure the feds are paying.

It does make you wonder though when the VPD chief claims they have so many openings and need to hire X more officers, etc.

Either way, it's just a temporary boost in numbers for Ottawa. They could be on the way home already.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

Updated.. got it mixed up with the horse incident.

Ron.

Are the horses being investigated for discharging?

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

It's in "Business in Vancouver", so I would assume they're talking about businesses Downtown when they say "hollowed out" - not people living there. We've seen businesses close (like the Smak chain, that was owned by the son of the co-founder of Business In Vancouver) but that's related to covid, as the article notes. Overall business licences aren't down this year, and new retail is starting to open up where they closed over the past two years. (Note the editorial is, unusually, unsigned. So we don't know who wrote it).

Clearly the number of people working Downtown on any one day is still far less than before covid. Lots of people are working from home, although that's slowly changing, as the transit use numbers show. It's not like the pandemic is over, although BIV's Editor, Kirk LaPointe, the failed NPA mayoral candidate, says Bonnie Henry shouldn't be deciding how things go forward: "What we are finding is that it is far easier to shut down an economy than to restart it, so we need a different form of leadership to emerge as the prime daily driver." So he certainly seems to think that aspects of the economy have "hollowed out".

The BIV piece doesn't say anything about residents leaving, and all the evidence is that the Downtown residential population is growing. The census data that Warren produced shows that. The rental vacancy shows that. In 2016 there were 4,929 dwellings 'not occupied by usual residents' Downtown. In 2021 that had fallen to 4,112. Overall there were 4,495 more occupied dwellings in Downtown in 2021 than five years earlier. Vancouver overall grew by over 30,000, and over a quarter of the growth was Downtown. To remind you of the headline in one of your go-to sources of information, Daily Hive "Downtown Vancouver is Canada's most densely populated city centre"

See what I said back before WarrenC12 budged in and brought in something totally unrelated in his argument? You guys should learn how to read first before boosting up all the zest to prove me wrong time and again, but unfortunately without any merit.

Originally Posted by Vin

It did mention at the end of the article that downtown is "hollowed out". I totally agree on that as the municipal government fails to put safety and order back to the downtown core, thus driving away even more businesses and visitors.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Vin

See what I said back before WarrenC12 budged in and brought in something totally unrelated in his argument? You guys should learn how to read first before boosting up all the zest to prove me wrong time and again, but unfortunately without any merit.

But your "information" is objectively wrong. Demand for residential and commercial space downtown is as high as ever. There's no reason to think visitors won't return when our border restrictions are back to normal.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

See what I said back before WarrenC12 budged in and brought in something totally unrelated in his argument? You guys should learn how to read first before boosting up all the zest to prove me wrong time and again, but unfortunately without any merit.

You've offered no evidence to support you belief that 'hollowing out' of Downtown in the BIV article meant residents, not businesses. I suggested they meant businesses, and here's another BIV article to suggest that's the case "Foot traffic in downtown Vancouver is down 79.4 per cent as of January 31, 2022, compared with March 2, 2020, according to a “vitality index” curated by Avison Young. The index, which uses anonymized cellphone location data to measure foot traffic, is tracking North America’s biggest urban centres in a bid to measure the pace of return to downtown cores.

And so far 29 street-level businesses have closed on Granville Street since 2020, according to Nolan Marshall III, CEO of the Downtown Vancouver Business Improvement Association."

As you requested up-to-date numbers to show you're wrong, CMHC have obligingly last week published detailed tables of rental data for Vancouver, where they show the rental vacancy rates 16 months ago, and 4 months ago - so last year's change. Really up-to-date data, and for Downtown - not just the whole of Metro Vancouver. (Even BIV covered it).

In October 2020 there were 11,770 purpose-built rental units in Downtown Vancouver. The vacancy rate at that time was 6.3%, so that's about 742 empty rental apartments. In their West End area there were 10,539 units, and their vacancy rate was lower, 1.5%, so about 153 were vacant.

In October 2021 there were 11,827 purpose-built rental units Downtown and the vacancy rate had fallen to 1.9%, so that's only 225 empty rental apartments. In their West End area there were 10,626 units, and the vacancy rate fell to 1.2%, so about 131 were vacant.

So between October 2020 and October 2021 there were 517 more rented apartments Downtown, and 22 more in the West End. I'll let you decide how many people occupy the average Downtown rental building, but it's more than 1, so there were several hundred more people living Downtown at the end of 2021 than a year earlier.

How is that hollowing out?

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Changing City

As you requested up-to-date numbers to show you're wrong, CMHC have obligingly last week published detailed tables of rental data for Vancouver, where they show the rental vacancy rates 16 months ago, and 4 months ago - so last year's change.

But four months ago was 2021, so that data is soooooo old. Until you provide some data as of February 15, 2022, Vin will not be proven wrong

[FarmerHaight]

BC to open 20 complex-care housing sites with mental health and addictions services

The 2022 BC budget released today calls for opening at least 20 additional locations across the province, creating a combined total capacity for 500 individuals in complex-care housing by early 2025.

The provincial government launched the program in January 2022, and designated its first four locations — the existing Jim Green Residence at 415 Alexander Street in the Downtown Eastside, where there will be 44 complex-care spaces, as well as locations at existing supportive housing buildings in East Vancouver, Surrey, and Abbotsford. All four initial locations provide a combined capacity of 103 spaces.

Here's something to be optimistic about.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

BC to open 20 complex-care housing sites with mental health and addictions services


Here's something to be optimistic about.

This is proper good news. This is a start.

[whatnext]

Fun times over the weekend:

Vancouver police report 60 assaults over Family Day weekend, many unprovoked
By Claire Fenton
Posted Feb 23, 2022, 9:34AM PST

-More than 20 'unprovoked stranger attacks' are under investigation, according to Vancouver police
-Police say the incidents happened over the long weekend, and are urging those who see a crime to report it
-Several people were left injured in the assaults

Vancouver police say they’re investigating a disturbing number of assaults over the Family Day long weekend, nearly two dozen of which are described as “unprovoked stranger attacks.”

Police say they responded to 60 assault calls between Friday and Monday. Several incidents left people in need of medical attention.

In one case, the VPD says a man was attacked near Victoria Drive and E. 39 Avenue Saturday morning after two men followed him off the bus. He sustained injuries to his head...

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2022/02/23/vancouver-police-assaults-long-weekend/