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  #601  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2022, 1:06 AM
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Was actually just reading some comments made by some elders from the Squamish nation who were there, and were actually expressing their surprise when then mob started to take down the statue and that it wasn’t their ambition for that to happen. So definitely don’t start painting everyone there with the same brush.

PS, it’s funny how everyone is talking about him marrying a 12 year old girl (though some accounts say she was 16) as if it occurred in 2022. In context marriage between 12 and 16 was quite common in the 1800’s (and it was especially common within tribal cultures during those days, and is still somewhat common in more isolated tribes around the world to this day).

And that is the irony about yelling “decolonize” while also being angry about a 12 year old being married. In the long run it has actually been “colonial” culture that has largely contributed to the ending of such young marriages.
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  #602  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2022, 1:10 AM
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Originally Posted by jollyburger View Post
How do they tell the difference between dogs and people?
While not a perfect science, it’s usually pretty easy to tell the difference if you have ever owned a dog.

The pro poverty people must really be grasping at straws now if their defense is “well, how did you know if it’s human or dog shit?”

PS, dog owners should also be responsible for their dog shit, I ain’t excusing that, but this is a pretty lame diversion tactic.
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  #603  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2022, 1:59 AM
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Originally Posted by SpongeG View Post
gassy jack is gone

Vancouver's Gassy Jack statue toppled, covered in red paint during Women's Memorial March

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/vancouver-s-gassy-...-during-women-s-memorial-march-1.5781066
The worst thing is that the media treats this as something like a rite of passage, as if something like this is acceptable.

Political correctness gone overboard in this land.
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  #604  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2022, 4:10 AM
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IMO It’s always worth looking into the story to see what person or event is being commemorated by a monument. Monuments often tell you more about the people who commissioned them than the historical figure that they are honoring.

The gassy jack statue was commissioned in the 1970s by the BIA at the time without any public input and Tom Campbell, the mayor at the time, threatened to "haul it to the dump".

It's unfortunate that negotiations couldn't be finished by the COV and the Squamish for the removal of the statue, although it had being going on for at least 600 days without any results.
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  #605  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2022, 4:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post

PS, it’s funny how everyone is talking about him marrying a 12 year old girl (though some accounts say she was 16) as if it occurred in 2022. In context marriage between 12 and 16 was quite common in the 1800’s (and it was especially common within tribal cultures during those days, and is still somewhat common in more isolated tribes around the world to this day).
This is a keep-the-monument argument? The above and that he ran a successful saloon, I'm not sure why an ongoing public monument would justified

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And that is the irony about yelling “decolonize” while also being angry about a 12 year old being married. In the long run it has actually been “colonial” culture that has largely contributed to the ending of such young marriages.
Ending it in modern times? Like today?
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  #606  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2022, 4:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Zepfancouver View Post
I was shocked when I walk up to the damage on the Bridge https://imgur.com/gallery/CUnskop
I don't believe any one was hurt here, I think someone was making a point or a bike thief was testing out his new battery powered grinder.
What the heck happened there? Haha, this is so random it's actually funny. Those fences are useless and waste of money, but at least the Burrard Bridge one looks pretty okay Vs all the other bridges. Millions wasted on these projects.
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  #607  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2022, 4:57 AM
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Stop making too much sense Metro-One. With so much footage of the perpetrators online, they should be arrested and charged for vandalism and destruction of public property. The statue should be re-erected on their dime.

Accepting mob mentally needs to stop before it becomes commonplace as these retards are a minuscule minority trying to impose their twisted opinions on others. Someone pointed out well how someone could use the same self-righteousness to topple the Terry Fox statue and be just as "right" as these idiots. It's the same brain-dead train of thought.
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  #608  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2022, 4:58 AM
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Originally Posted by mezzanine View Post
This is a keep-the-monument argument? The above and that he ran a successful saloon, I'm not sure why an ongoing public monument would justified



Ending it in modern times? Like today?
I honestly don’t care that much if it remains or not, just pointing out hypocrisy.

Also strawman much? You honestly think that abuse scandals today equate to the common practices of openly marrying off preteen and young teenage girls in the past? No matter how “progressive” society becomes there will always be some creeps around.

Don’t tell your the type that believes progress hasn’t been made since the 1800s?
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  #609  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2022, 5:07 AM
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PS, if anything Gassy Jack should be idolized as the perfect mascot for the downtown east side, he was a drug pushing drug taking deviant with an unusual sex life living and shitting on someone else’s property! The woke poverty pumps should be erected his statues on every street corner!
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  #610  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2022, 8:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
PS, if anything Gassy Jack should be idolized as the perfect mascot for the downtown east side, he was a drug pushing drug taking deviant with an unusual sex life living and shitting on someone else’s property! The woke poverty pumps should be erected his statues on every street corner!
Whenever I walk by the statue, I don't think I "idolize" it, and I don't think anyone else would either. Jack *ss was just a historical clown for all we care, and the statue was simply there to remind us about how Gastown got its name, that's all.

To justify what transpired in Gastown is like saying all Japanese flags should be burned since they were one of the symbols used by Imperial Japan to brutalize much of its neighbours and the Allies. There is always an excuse to create hate for something/someone by bringing up the past, and to let this go out of hand, can become disastrous. Mob-mentality should never be accepted.

If we can't even right the wrongs of today, what right do we have to demand the wrongs of the past?

Last edited by Vin; Feb 16, 2022 at 8:53 PM.
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  #611  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2022, 9:43 PM
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There was an interesting quote in today's NY Times daily email blast about how governments operating so far out of their lane that they are missing the fundamentals. Vancouver's politicians and bureaucrats need to listen:

To many parents, board members have seemed overly focused on projecting symbols of virtuousness while ignoring the needs of families. “We are not getting the basics right,” Siva Raj, a father who helped organize the recall effort, said.

Another recall organizer, Autumn Looijen, used an analogy to explain the anger. Covid was akin to an earthquake that forced people to move into tents on the sidewalk, she suggested. “Finally, your elected leaders show up and you’re like, ‘Thank God, here’s some help,’” Looijen told Politico. “And they say, ‘We are here to help. We’re going to change the street signs for you.’”


Governments need to get back to managing core services and stop chasing every possible virtue-signaling venture.

Here's the entire note, for those that might be interested:

Good morning. Why are liberal candidates losing elections in liberal cities?


Jim Wilson/The New York Times

An earthquake

Elections to the San Francisco Board of Education are not normally national bellwethers. The city is a proud symbol of liberalism, not a swing district, and school-board elections — as Thomas Fuller, The Times’s San Francisco bureau chief, notes — “have for decades been obscure sideshows to the more high-profile political contests.”

But the recall election this week that ousted three board members wasn’t about only local politics. It also reflected a trend: Many Americans, even in liberal places, seem frustrated by what they consider a leftward lurch from parts of the Democratic Party and its allies. This frustration spans several issues, including education, crime and Covid-19.

Consider these election results from last year, all in politically blue places:

In Minneapolis, voters rejected a ballot measure to replace the city’s Police Department with an agency that would have focused less on law enforcement.
In Seattle, voters elected Ann Davison — a lawyer who had recently quit the Democratic Party because she thought it had moved “so far left” — as the city’s top prosecutor. Davison beat a candidate who wanted to abolish the police.
In New York, voters elected as their mayor Eric Adams, a Democrat who revels in defying liberal orthodoxy. As a candidate, Adams promised to crack down on crime. Since taking office, he has signaled his frustration with Covid restrictions.
In the Democratic-leaning suburbs of both New Jersey and Virginia, Republican candidates for governor did surprisingly well. Several postelection analyses — including one by aides to Phil Murphy, New Jersey’s Democratic governor, who narrowly survived — concluded that anger over Covid policies played a central role.
Three reasons for change
The San Francisco school-board recall joins this list. There, three separate issues drove the campaign.

First, the school board had attempted to rename 44 schools, so that they no longer honored anybody deemed reactionary. Among the apparent reactionaries were Paul Revere, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Senator Dianne Feinstein and John Muir, the environmentalist.

Second, the board tried to scrap an admissions system, based on grades and test scores, for Lowell High School, which Mark Barabak of The Los Angeles Times calls “one of the city’s most sacred institutions.” A lottery would have replaced it.

Third, the board kept schools closed for months during the pandemic and showed little concern for the damage. One of the since-recalled board members waved away the ineffectiveness of remote classes, saying that children were “just having different learning experiences.”


Dianne Feinstein Elementary School in San Francisco.Jeff Chiu/Associated Press
To many parents, board members have seemed overly focused on projecting symbols of virtuousness while ignoring the needs of families. “We are not getting the basics right,” Siva Raj, a father who helped organize the recall effort, said.

Another recall organizer, Autumn Looijen, used an analogy to explain the anger. Covid was akin to an earthquake that forced people to move into tents on the sidewalk, she suggested. “Finally, your elected leaders show up and you’re like, ‘Thank God, here’s some help,’” Looijen told Politico. “And they say, ‘We are here to help. We’re going to change the street signs for you.’”

What’s striking about this situation is that the Republican Party is also out of step with public opinion on many of the same issues. Republicans have defended the Confederate flag, nominated candidates who make racist comments and launched an exaggerated campaign against critical race theory. Republicans have opposed popular measures to improve police accountability and gun regulations. Republicans have made false statements about Covid vaccines and claimed that masks are a tool of government oppression.

Rather than responding with positions that are both more liberal and more popular, some Democrats and progressive activists have responded by overreaching public opinion in the other direction.

They have opposed the resumption of normal operations in schools. They have said they would no longer honor popular former presidents, like Thomas Jefferson and Theodore Roosevelt. They have called for defunding the police.

They have also called for abolishing the agency that enforces immigration laws; eliminating private health insurance, maintaining the current system of affirmative action and forbidding almost all abortion restrictions.

Dividing lines
On some of these issues, public opinion splits along racial lines, with Democrats taking the positions favored by voters of color and Republicans aligning with white voters. Many Democrats believe that it would be immoral to do otherwise, whatever the political price.

On other issues, though, the racial dynamics are messier. Many Asian and Latino voters oppose the current version of affirmative action, which helps explain why the changes to Lowell High School resonated in San Francisco. Many Black and Latino voters are to the right of Democratic politicians on abortion and crime.

Class seems to be at least as big a dividing line as race. College-educated Democrats — who dominate the ranks of politicians, campaign staffs and activist organizations — tend to be well to the left of working-class Democrats. By catering to its well-off base, the party creates electoral problems for itself, because there are more working-class Americans than college graduates.

You could see this dividing line in the New York mayor’s race. Adams won the Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island with a multiracial coalition, while losing affluent white neighborhoods. (Adams’s heterodox politics are common among Black Americans, the political scientist Christina Greer has written.)

You can also see the dividing line in San Francisco, where the city’s mayor, London Breed, who is Black, endorsed the recall. In an interview with Yahoo News this week, Breed said, “It breaks my heart that kids in our public school system still have to wear masks.”

Her comments are a reminder that many elected Democrats, including President Biden, tend to disagree with the party’s left flank on several of these issues and to be more in tune with public opinion. But that flank nonetheless influences voters’ image of the party. In the most recent national elections, in 2020, Democrats fared worse than they expected, despite the highest voter turnout in decades.


This was from an NYC email blast, so I don't have a source weblink to reference, or acknowledge.
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  #612  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2022, 11:03 PM
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From BIV:

Editorial: Is chronic downtown decay our destiny?
https://biv.com/article/2022/02/editorial-chronic-downtown-decay-our-destiny
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  #613  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2022, 1:05 AM
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Originally Posted by s211 View Post
There was an interesting quote in today's NY Times daily email blast about how governments operating so far out of their lane that they are missing the fundamentals. Vancouver's politicians and bureaucrats need to listen
And interestingly, WAPO published a very similar story today:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/02/17/democrats-san-francisco-recall/
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  #614  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2022, 2:16 AM
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The COV has sent police officers to Ottawa for support.

I guess they're bored with nothing to do here?

Ron.
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  #615  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2022, 4:00 PM
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Originally Posted by s211 View Post
What’s striking about this situation is that the Republican Party is also out of step with public opinion on many of the same issues. Republicans have defended the Confederate flag, nominated candidates who make racist comments and launched an exaggerated campaign against critical race theory. Republicans have opposed popular measures to improve police accountability and gun regulations. Republicans have made false statements about Covid vaccines and claimed that masks are a tool of government oppression.

Rather than responding with positions that are both more liberal and more popular, some Democrats and progressive activists have responded by overreaching public opinion in the other direction.

They have opposed the resumption of normal operations in schools. They have said they would no longer honor popular former presidents, like Thomas Jefferson and Theodore Roosevelt. They have called for defunding the police.

They have also called for abolishing the agency that enforces immigration laws; eliminating private health insurance, maintaining the current system of affirmative action and forbidding almost all abortion restrictions.
What do you know, a very vocal minority on the extremes of the political spectrum have captured their parties and the silent majority wonder what the hell happened.

People forget that the majority of people are not active on Twitter, or organizing defund the police protest marches, or waving confederate flags at political rallies. But these people are often more passionate and receive more media coverage, and politicians cave to their demands. These passionate supporters also have an outsized political influence, since they are more likely to be card-carrying members of their party and vote in leadership races.

Measured, bi-partisan, and logic-based discussions have gone out the window and have instead been replaced by emotional outbursts.
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  #616  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2022, 5:43 PM
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Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
From BIV:

Editorial: Is chronic downtown decay our destiny?
https://biv.com/article/2022/02/editorial-chronic-downtown-decay-our-destiny
Easy answer here; yes.

In order for things to change, somethings have to change.

We don't have leaders. We have administrators and placeholders in charge. Everyone is temporary until they can get their teeth sunk into the next opportunity.

Worse, we still have a significant part of the local population in denial about the rapid decline already visible.

If you don't see a problem by now, it means you still have to wait for more decline before the tide shifts. You then have to wait through more decline as debate finally opens to make meaningful change. You then have to wait through more decline as funding and measures are finally enacted. You then finally bottom out and begin to improve.

The fact there is finally some chatter about the state of things is encouraging, in my view the civic realm decline started somewhere around 2012 or so. Simple things. Poor general maintenance, cracked sidewalks, dirty, garbage, overgrown medians, just a general lack of basic core competencies. By 2018 I was amazed the conversation wasn't being had more vocally as it became apparent just how entrenched the trends were.

Can the decline be stopped? Of course. But its going to take a tidal change in approach, and were far from being able to do that.

The Tyee pieces about Atira and the poverty pimps corruption is a good start to change the tide. But it will take the remainder of this decade before any noticeable difference for the positive is made.

So while chronic is a little alarmist and doomsday-ish - I do think with hindsight there will have been a good 15-20 year stretch of decline.
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  #617  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2022, 7:56 PM
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The fact there is finally some chatter about the state of things is encouraging, in my view the civic realm decline started somewhere around 2012 or so. Simple things. Poor general maintenance, cracked sidewalks, dirty, garbage, overgrown medians, just a general lack of basic core competencies. By 2018 I was amazed the conversation wasn't being had more vocally as it became apparent just how entrenched the trends were.
Basic core competencies are colonialist. At least mown lawns are, or so I'm told.
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  #618  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2022, 8:56 PM
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Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
From BIV:

Editorial: Is chronic downtown decay our destiny?
https://biv.com/article/2022/02/editorial-chronic-downtown-decay-our-destiny
It did mention at the end of the article that downtown is "hollowed out". I totally agree on that as the municipal government fails to put safety and order back to the downtown core, thus driving away even more businesses and visitors.


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Basic core competencies are colonialist. At least mown lawns are, or so I'm told.
People fail to realize that we should embrace anything that is good for us, and reject the bad. Instead, groups are rejecting anything wholesale as long as it is associated with something they dislike. Stupidity knows no bounds.

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Originally Posted by NewfBC View Post
The COV has sent police officers to Ottawa for support.

I guess they're bored with nothing to do here?

Ron.
Now Ottawa police should return the favour by coming to solve our problems at DTES and downtown.
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  #619  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2022, 9:01 PM
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It did mention at the end of the article that downtown is "hollowed out".
What part of this is hollowed out?

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  #620  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2022, 9:12 PM
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Do you care showing something from 2020 to 2022?

Again using a misleading chart.

If you nuke downtown today and hollow-out the city centre by killing off the population, the chart you are showing, from 2016 to 2021 still shows downtown leading in population growth.
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