Phoenix Development News (3)

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by N830MH

Hi All,

PHX terminal 3 expansioon update.

This will be consolidated the security checkpoint instead of existing the TSA checkpoint. You don't have re-clear at security again. You can stay inside the security instead of leaving from the sterile area.

Major attributes of the program are:

• Consolidated security checkpoint
• Additional ticket counters
• Additional baggage processing capacity
• Additional baggage claim carousels
• New and expanded food concessions and retail
• Additional gates as needed
• Expanded curb for drop-off and pickup

http://skyharbor.com/terminalmodernization/

So when they close T2 are we just going to have a Terminal 3 and Terminal 4 with no 1 or 2? Or will they finally change the names?

Obviously East and West or 1 and 2 would make sense. Though those will all change again when T2 is rebuilt. I think a reborn, much larger T2 is still in the long term vision, does anyone know for sure?

E: Also, I should say I appreciate the more modern and clean white and glass look for T3. I wish it were something more iconic, eye catching, etc so people really would see it and think "that's Phoenix!" but its a big improvement over the brown brutalism that our city got so obsessed with for a while (Civic Plaza, Sympony Hall, T4, Wells Fargo Tower, AZ Governor Exec Tower, etc).

[Jjs5056]

Speaking of our brutal designs, what are the plans for the south Convention Center? Leave it as is, or will it be upgraded? The wall from the Colliers lot through 7th street is really unbearable.

[CK254]

Just came across these images, obviously they're conceptual images of the Terminal 3 Modernization.

Site Reference:
http://www.b2district.com/

[DevilsRider]

Very sleek. Sky Harbor has similar (more refined?) images on their site, that include how the Sky Train will continue on toward the rental car facility: http://skyharbor.com/TerminalModerni...strations.html

Originally Posted by CK254

Just came across these images, obviously they're conceptual images of the Terminal 3 Modernization.

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

Speaking of our brutal designs, what are the plans for the south Convention Center? Leave it as is, or will it be upgraded? The wall from the Colliers lot through 7th street is really unbearable.

There's no plans that I've heard of. Though here are my fantasy plans:

*the South convention center building is demolished. The large underground conference hall is extended beneath Washington to that parcel.

* garage mahal is demolished. If the City thinks there would ever be enough demand, extend the huge subterranean conference hall under that parcel as well.

* put out RFPs for the develop-able land on those two lots and lets see some high rises! And ideally lets see 4th and 6th streets reintroduced, to help break up some of that awful super block action.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

There's no plans that I've heard of. Though here are my fantasy plans:

*the South convention center building is demolished. The large underground conference hall is extended beneath Washington to that parcel.

* garage mahal is demolished. If the City thinks there would ever be enough demand, extend the huge subterranean conference hall under that parcel as well.

* put out RFPs for the develop-able land on those two lots and lets see some high rises! And ideally lets see 4th and 6th streets reintroduced, to help break up some of that awful super block action.

Sounds like a plan to me; unfortunately, there's little demand as is for the many vacant lots nearby so I doubt either will be demolished in the forseeable future, especially the CC, given the empty Colliers parcel directly across and the costs spent on upgrading the rest, etc. But, it's crazy and unfortunate how many single-use deadzones there are preventing any true north-south corridor between Roosevelt and Jefferson.

2nd is a goner with the amount of back-of-house operations dumping on it, but 5th could've been an extension of the entertainment district had the Garage Mahal been wrapped on at least the west and north sides, the Science/Heritage park actually opened up to the street (there really isn't enough parking in the CC and Garage Mahal to allow for the demolition of the squatty Heritage garage?), and the Convention Center followed most trends in being mixed use with office/retail/hotel frontages on all of 2nd, 3rd, and 5th.

1st street is probably the last chance at having a true connection, but that's completely dependent on ASU actually building decent structures and I don't have much faith there.

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

So when they close T2 are we just going to have a Terminal 3 and Terminal 4 with no 1 or 2? Or will they finally change the names?

Obviously East and West or 1 and 2 would make sense. Though those will all change again when T2 is rebuilt. I think a reborn, much larger T2 is still in the long term vision, does anyone know for sure?

Well, actually, the entire T2 will be closing and there will be no more terminal 2. Right, there is no terminal 1. This is where they used to be. This is for old Southwest Airlines terminal 1. When the entire T4 is being built for both Southwest & America West. They constructed 5 concourse and also, they constructed another new concourse in a few years later. Because America West is growing. They need more gates space.

No, they won't be change the names. I think they will keep the current names. They won't be change the names.

[KevininPhx]

Originally Posted by N830MH

Well, actually, the entire T2 will be closing and there will be no more terminal 2. Right, there is no terminal 1. This is where they used to be. This is for old Southwest Airlines terminal 1. When the entire T4 is being built for both Southwest & America West. They constructed 5 concourse and also, they constructed another new concourse in a few years later. Because America West is growing. They need more gates space.

No, they won't be change the names. I think they will keep the current names. They won't be change the names.

Sky Harbor reps said a few weeks back that they retire terminal numbers, like 2, when the buildings are demolished. Not sure if other airports do that, but Sky Harbor does.

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by KevininPhx

Sky Harbor reps said a few weeks back that they retire terminal numbers, like 2, when the buildings are demolished. Not sure if other airports do that, but Sky Harbor does.

Right, both United & Alaska will move to entire terminal 3 sometime after 2020. When the entire terminal 3 modernization is complete. The TSA checkpoint will be consolidated, and also, they will have backup more new inline baggage screening system. I believe both Hawaiian Air & Sun Country will move to entire terminal 2. It just only for the temporarily. The T3S will be closed and they will be demolished. They will constructed a new 15 gates. The entire T3S is very quiet, but the lines is not too long. It's very empty. Because AA has already moved to entire terminal 4.

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

Sounds like a plan to me; unfortunately, there's little demand as is for the many vacant lots nearby so I doubt either will be demolished in the forseeable future, .

there's little demand for building on market priced land. The Barrister and Central Station projects might be showing us though that developing on land the city puts out for RFPs is possible. Not having to pay a hefty fee for the land helps a lot more projects pencil I imagine.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

there's little demand for building on market priced land. The Barrister and Central Station projects might be showing us though that developing on land the city puts out for RFPs is possible. Not having to pay a hefty fee for the land helps a lot more projects pencil I imagine.

True, but they have a glut of empty land that'll go out to RFP before existing structures do for redevelopment - don't you think?

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

True, but they have a glut of empty land that'll go out to RFP before existing structures do for redevelopment - don't you think?

you are probably correct on that, yah.

[Jjs5056]

It'd be cool if they could RFP some upgrades to their existing structures, kind of like what they've done with the historic properties they own. Many of these buildings have to be in need of repair, so why not take the opportunity to make them more urban-friendly in the process?

1) County Court Complex: "carving" out the middle of the Madison/1st Ave pedestrian zone to make a plaza would be so much more attractive than the trailer-like building that exists there now. Removing this and replacing with a modern, glass extension onto one of the other towers would help modernize the plaza and one of the towers at the same time. Additionally, buildings like the 4th street jail would look 100x better with copper cladding and glass accents - would certainly help unify the area with the new tower that sticks out currently.

I mean, to me, the first drawing looks so much better with just the cladding and a mural (apparently, the jail is being used as a no-kill animal shelter currently; who knew? I didn't... why not promote that?):



2) Garage Mahal: adding retail to 1 or 2 sides; this would actually drive revenue, so could possibly be realistic
3) Security Building: adding retail to the ground level; ditto regarding revenue
4) Heritage Park Garage: similar to Central Station, this property could be so much better utilized in linking the CC and AZ Center areas with the park. Right now, it seems so disconnected and like it has to be a trip within itself when its simply hidden.

I'll stop as I realize this should go in the General thread...

[HX_Guy]

Seems like this will pull some energy from the downtown biomed campus, no?

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/b...-in-north.html

[gymratmanaz]

It could, but any possiblility it could pull some too, making AZ a more biotech centered economy?

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

Seems like this will pull some energy from the downtown biomed campus, no?

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/b...-in-north.html

indeed. The thinking/talk I've heard is the Downtown campus will be more for starts up, and companies that need smaller footprints. Larger scale established companies will locate nearer to Mayo.

[Jjs5056]

This has always been in the works. Stanton has touted a separate Biomedical cluster since being elected, and it shows how short-sighted the leadership of Phoenix is. If downtown was currently diversifying its economy by bringing in high-paying jobs from other sectors, this conversation would be moot, but the Biomedical Campus has been talked up since the Evans Churchill District was bulldozed away as a means of providing a boost to what is otherwise a stagnant economic engine in Central Phoenix. There are only so many law firms a city can sustain before there is simply no net gain - and, not before long, downtown will become what Midtown is when it comes to the commercial sector.

Why would companies choose dirty ol' downtown for their business when they can go to shiny, new Desert Ridge? Even if somehow, the original Biomedical Campus keeps startup companies within its district, how exactly is that a significant gain? Startups = less money = less employees = less money being circulated in the immediate vicinity, less money spent on unaffordable housing, etc.

It's incredible that a leadership that pretends to care about sustainability and the city center thinks this is a strong, long-term solution. Reality is, it's pulling money and high paying jobs away from the core and out to the fringe where there is no mass transit or urban infrastructure. Why? To feed the mouth of Mayo.

ASU, Mayo... it's all the same. Urban values, sustainability, proper planning... all go out the door when one of these players gets involved. And, what we're left with is a central downtown that is anti-urban and guarded by SunCard access, and a once-promising arts district plowed away for a campus that will never come.

What was the last major company to relocate to downtown Phoenix outside the Biomedical field? There's no strategy for replacing these jobs and downtown can never succeed without a healthy percentage of white collar executives who can afford to overpay for housing and services in the beginning for the convenience of being next to their job. That ain't happening.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by gymratmanaz

It could, but any possiblility it could pull some too, making AZ a more biotech centered economy?

Sure, it could be good for Arizona. But, it isn't good for downtown Phoenix or for the long-term sustainability of the city when jobs are pulled from a central, accessible location to the fringe.

Downtown, and Phoenix, need to diversify regardless. We were beaten to the punch long ago with regards to Biomed. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to attract jobs in that field, but it's scary to see the lack of foresight in investing in other fields in order to get ahead of the game for once, rather than always play catch up. We have a serious chance to be a major hub for sustainable business, but very few companies are being poached or started in that field.

It would be great if GCC could strengthen its sustainability programs, and build a high school on site focused on sustainability and sciences, so that the kids could make use of these resources at an early age. Its CEI incubator could then be used for co-working, to develop sustainable startups, and also develop strategies for creating a climate that is attractive to outside companies to move to the state.

Replace sustainability with any 1 of the up-and-coming industries (traditional medical will be huge for boomers, along with alternative medicines, for example; we have strong marketing talent that can handle the mobile trends in that industry, but these are ~30 person companies scattered about the Valley) and I'd say it's a win for AZ. But, Desert Ridge research parks? No.

[Jjs5056]

So, Hanny's destroyed several of the only mature trees on the (as officially recorded) hottest intersection of Phoenix in order to increase visibility of their signage.

That's the second place where mature trees have been demo'd recently - 15 E McKinley being the other. I'm sure there are more... why bother anymore? Even the "downtown heros" don't GET IT.

[combusean]

This is a long-time coming. Once ASU left the Biomedical Collaborative, downtown's aspirations for biomed outside of the UofA was done. Yet ASU moved their nursing school to be closer to it all, and now one wonders what that exactly is.

In other news, the downtown mainstay of Amsterdam's nee The Bar on Central will be closing after this weekend--ending about a 20 year run for that corner, altho it's been a long time since its heyday of Club Miami/i would *love* to know the exact name of that Beach Club/Amsterdam's 3-bars-in-one of many years past. The word on the street is that all the buildings on the block have been sold to a new owner, tho there's only that small strip that's there besides the Westward Ho.

Any information on the subject would be welcome.