The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by GregHickman

I still don't comprehend this fascination with mixed-income.

I do. I don't come from a privileged background. I grew up in rental housing in downtown Charlottetown, but because of the way the school boundaries were configured, I went to school in the Brighton area of the city where all the wealthier families lived. My friends as a child were all much better off than myself but by being around them and their homes, I had a chance to see "how the other half lived". I credit this to partly influencing my path in life and the fact that I ended up going to medical school.

Now, this wasn't the only inflence of course, my family always highly valued education and there were lots of books in the house. All of my siblings went to university as well but being exposed to an upper middle class milleu I think did help in broadening my horizons.

There are studies out there which show that mixing to some degree helps in stabilizing communities and improving understanding across all walks of life.

Building mixed neighbourhoods is admittedly a difficult goal but is probably preferrable to the alternative of gated residential communities and private schools (like in the USA).

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by GregHickman

If you're wealthy, why would you want to live with/next/near to someone who isn't wealthy? If you go to places like St. Andrews or Chester or anywhere where there is valuable property on the water, it's all wealthy families. Do you think they'd want to live with people of a lower standard, at least in their eyes? It boggles my mind that Saint John and area can have so much waterfront property and yet none of it is utilized like it is in other places.

I still don't comprehend this fascination with mixed-income. Maybe i'm too cynical or too much of a realist, but I can't see it actually happening. Find me a point in history where a society strived and in which everyone lived in mixed-income areas.

Example: I drove out to Rothesay & Quispamsis a few evenings ago. When out there, I stopped at the Marr Road Irving. Whilst I was inside, the cars that parked around my car all exceeded roughly 50/75K each. So we'll say one of them was a Jaguar. A nice one. So when I drive back into Saint John, and drive back into the north end, I don't see 50K cars, or Jaguars, I see people beating each other with titanium baseball bats. Home Sweet Home, I say, but this does nothing to help mixed-income fantasies.

Why should these people move into town, or anybody else with any sort of income whatsoever? They need to be given some sort of incentive to move into town. We're raising our taxes higher again? We already have one of the highest tax rates in the country. Again, why would people move here? Cut taxes drastically in the city. And I mean drastically. Every derelict building the city tears down? That's lessening the tax base for the city. Because once that building is removed from the property the taxes lessen greatly. So we're raising taxes for existing properties and nullifying them on derelict and otherwise unused properties.

I agree that the municipal plan should be updated, and I think PlanSJ has done a reasonably good job. There's a lot of stuff in there, however, that I just don't think is feasible at this time. Retail needs to stop being built over east, for starters, unless you want to start throwing money at never-ending plumbing and digging costs because your building sinks multiple inches a year. Oh, and the flood plain, too. Can't forget about that.

The Uptown can work if it's done correctly. I think more people need to actually live in the uptown, because on some nights there's a stark contrast between the amount of people Uptown at 4PM and again at 6PM. Where do you think all of these people go?

I really appreciate people getting together and putting out flower pots and painting telephone polls in the North End for community involvement and whatever else, but it's going to take more than that to get things rolling, and onto a better path.

It always seems that i'm in a really ranty mood in the mornings. I'll try my best to curb that.

I am not even sure where to begin. I don't think too many people, regardless of their financial position, look at others and believe they are of a lower standard.

There is plenty of very well used waterfront property all throughout the Saint John area. Try and buy a waterfront lot in Millidgeville or Drury Cove. You can't get anything for under $250,000 for the lot with no home.

I am not sure what neighbourhood you live in, but if you see someone being beaten with a baseball bat, please call the police.

Jaguars? Really? lol

[dhottawa729]

Originally Posted by GregHickman

If you're wealthy, why would you want to live with/next/near to someone who isn't wealthy?

That's very narrow-minded thinking and I sincerely hope that most people don't think like that (although I'm sure there are some that do).

I encourage you to read up on mixed income communities... it's actually a good thing and it improves society as a whole. I'm not going to say any more

[mylesmalley]

Homogenous neighborhoods, be they differentiated based on land use, income, age, or ethnicity, are almost invariably something to be avoided. Mixed communities are typically denser, more vibrant, and efficient.

I can go into a lot more detail on all of that, but suffice it to say that history and a lot of research agrees with me.

[JHikka]

I can't believe that some people think the rich don't look down on the poor. That's incredible.

It's not that I don't have any idea of what a mixed-income community is or how it works, I just can't see it working to the extent that the city of Saint John hopes it does. Because we have such a large gap between the poor and the rich in the city, I can't see it going over terribly well.

The gentrification of the uptown area (in particular King St. East) is a good example of this.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

There is plenty of very well used waterfront property all throughout the Saint John area. Try and buy a waterfront lot in Millidgeville or Drury Cove. You can't get anything for under $250,000 for the lot with no home.

I am not sure what neighbourhood you live in, but if you see someone being beaten with a baseball bat, please call the police.

Jaguars? Really? lol

Sure, the land is worth that much, but nothing's developed and that's my point. There's no waterfront development.

I live in the North End. If I called the police for every questionable act I saw on a daily basis i'd be on the phone all day.

Really. It was an older model though and wasn't kept up very well.

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by GregHickman

Sure, the land is worth that much, but nothing's developed and that's my point. There's no waterfront development.

Really. It was an older model though and wasn't kept up very well.

Not developed? There is virtually zero undeveloped waterfront land in the entire city at this point. The reason why the remaining lots are so expensive is because there is due to the lack of supply.

Between the Rocca condos and the upcoming Coast Guard site project uptown has totally revamped the waterfront.

I was joking about the Jaguar, I don't think they have made a quality car in years.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

Not developed? There is virtually zero undeveloped waterfront land in the entire city at this point. The reason why the remaining lots are so expensive is because there is due to the lack of supply..

I don't mean in the harbour, I mean on the river in Millidgville, Milford, South Bay, etc.

And even then, I see a very large unoccupied piece of land where there used to be a Sugar Refinery

[Wrightguy0]

ah, the old Lantic Sugar Refinery site, it's an isolated, windswept, post industrial wasteland that's still being fought over by the longshoremen and the city, much of the city south of broadview is underdeveloped, there would need to be a plan for that whole area first.

Now, I think the mixed income community vision is the best thing this city has ever come up with, i mean if you lump a punch of poor people together you get a ghetto, look what happened in rifle range, but if you build a community that's integrated, then the area becomes more attractive, if rich people didn't want to live next to poor people then Harlem, like Hells Kitchen, or Miami Beach would never have faced the resurgence they are seeing today.

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by GregHickman

I don't mean in the harbour, I mean on the river in Millidgville, Milford, South Bay, etc.

I am confused. Where is there free habitable land on the river? There is NOTHING under $200,00K for a 1/4 acre in Millidgeville, South Bay there is one or two lots for sale all over six figures. Even Milford has homes built along the water and nothing available.

Or are you actually trying to say that there should be higher density in those residential neighborhoods.

[sjuser23]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

I am confused. Where is there free habitable land on the river? There is NOTHING under $200,00K for a 1/4 acre in Millidgeville, South Bay there is one or two lots for sale all over six figures. Even Milford has homes built along the water and nothing available.

Or are you actually trying to say that there should be higher density in those residential neighborhoods.

If you look at a map of the river area in and around Saint John there is a lot of undeveloped land. There may not be a lot of inventory for sale at the moment, but there's still a lot of riverfront property undeveloped.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

There is NOTHING under $200,00K for a 1/4 acre in Millidgeville, South Bay there is one or two lots for sale all over six figures. Even Milford has homes built along the water and nothing available.

Or are you actually trying to say that there should be higher density in those residential neighborhoods.

Who in SJ has the kind of money to splash 200K on a piece of land?

Higher density would be a bad idea for water/riverfront property. You need big homes, with access to the water, and etc. etc.

All i'm saying is that the St. John river system is one of the largest inland water systems on the eastern seaboard of North America, and people from all over travel here to sail it on a yearly basis. The river is underdeveloped not just in Saint John but for the majority in comparison to what it could be.

When you speak about sailing spots in North America you usually speak of Southwest & Northeast Harbours, Chester, Lunenburg, etc. and Saint John, in comparison, falls by the wayside quite easily, despite our proud maritime and sailing history.

Nevertheless, I digress.

This new construction work on Union: I'm glad they're putting all of the electricity underground

[michael_d40]

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[kwajo]

Saint John & Rothesay? Sweet, I can get my St Hubert fix in two places at once!

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by kwajo

Saint John & Rothesay? Sweet, I can get my St Hubert fix in two places at once!

Hmmmmmmm, I wonder if the reason why Swiss Chalet is building a second location in Moncton is to thwart a second St. Hubert's?

Let the chicken wars begin!

[michael_d40]

The proof!

(As you guys can tell I'm a huge fan of St Hubert) It was the ONE thing about Moncton I was envious about.

[IMG][/IMG]

[Taeolas]

It's interesting that St Hubert seems to be looking to expand into English Canada again. I remember they used to be in Freddy, but backed out under the Swiss Chalet onslaught in the 90's.

[kwajo]

Ya we had it here in SJ until the mid-90s too, I used to love their food as a kid, although I'm sure I'm remembering it more fondly than it deserves.

[Sabien]

BMO, St-Huberts, Genivar - what are the other 2 logos on the sign ? (I don't want to have to wait until the next time I drive by)

[Taeolas]

Originally Posted by kwajo

Ya we had it here in SJ until the mid-90s too, I used to love their food as a kid, although I'm sure I'm remembering it more fondly than it deserves.

You may be; I haven't had it in a long time. I did have it once about 5-6 years ago at their East End Ottawa location, and frankly, I didn't care much for it. (The sauce I got was more of a gravy than a dipping sauce). But I've still wanted to try it again, mainly due to the fond memories I had of the Freddy store. (Granted I love Swiss Chalet as much, if not more so I'm happy with Chicken in general. )