PHILADELPHIA | 2301 JFK Boulevard | 303 FT | 22 FLOORS

[Jawnadelphia]

Right I like the curves. If this building was on the Delaware River, I'd be thrilled. It does nothing for the skyline though really--it gets lost between the sandwich of the Riverwalk towers and PECO.

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by Jawnadelphia

Right I like the curves. If this building was on the Delaware River, I'd be thrilled. It does nothing for the skyline though really--it gets lost between the sandwich of the Riverwalk towers and PECO.

A cluster of similar sized buildings can make a nice affect despite it not doing much if you are just evaluating the silhouette of the skyline. This is a good example (I'm not comparing the quality of architecture but rather the visual texture of many like-sized buildings in a small area).

[SEFTA]

Ok. This was just posted! But Yowsa!


https://www.phila.gov/media/20200805...5rvki6KSyqYXxs

2301 JFK Boulevard 2

2301 JFK Boulevard

2301 JFK Boulevard 3

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[TK2001]

I love it!

[Justin7]

Love this, but no retail here either (along with TJ's parking lot) is frustrating. Adding this many people on both sides of JFK could surely support... something.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by Jawnadelphia

Right I like the curves. If this building was on the Delaware River, I'd be thrilled. It does nothing for the skyline though really--it gets lost between the sandwich of the Riverwalk towers and PECO.

Fair. I never really view things based on what they do for the skyline, so wasn't really thinking of the aspect.

I care many time more about how things look from the street level because that's how I interact with buildings in this city. Honestly don't really care at all about the skyline.

[Jawnadelphia]

Originally Posted by allovertown

Fair. I never really view things based on what they do for the skyline, so wasn't really thinking of the aspect.

I care many time more about how things look from the street level because that's how I interact with buildings in this city. Honestly don't really care at all about the skyline.

Whaaaat?! Come on, a skyline brings so much civic pride and identity. You never view the skyline from a rooftop bar, or as you come into town from a bridge, or from the ballpark. Or think about the millions of people who drive past the city every year...

I am happy that area will be adding thousands of new residents. But this is a skyscraper community, let’s get some height! The Market West plateau.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by Jawnadelphia

Whaaaat?! Come on, a skyline brings so much civic pride and identity. You never view the skyline from a rooftop bar, or as you come into town from a bridge, or from the ballpark. Or think about the millions of people who drive past the city every year...

I am happy that area will be adding thousands of new residents. But this is a skyscraper community, let’s get some height! The Market West plateau.

I like tall buildings because I like a dense urban environment and the atmosphere they create. I'm all for tall buildings. And of course I appreciate the skyline from certain vantage points from time to time. But when a new building is announced, I'm never thinking much about how the building fits into the skyline.

This is a good building. I'm happy it's being built. How it fits into the skyline doesn't really factor into that equation.

Appreciating skyscrapers and being into skylines are assuredly related topics, but to me they're still distinct. I care a lot about one, not really much about the other. I care much more about what new buildings mean for the people who live here as opposed to those driving by on a highway.

[Jawnadelphia]

^Yeah, I don't disagree with any of that.

I'd love to see the math as to why the Philly market for luxury apartments seems to top out at the 300-400 foot range for new towers. At this point, it isn't just a coincidence... The Alexander, Riverwalks, Trader Joe's, 2301 JFK, 1213 Walnut, The Harper, 1620 Sansom, 1919 Market, the University City newer buildings...

[iheartphilly]

^
I think the majority of the people that rent in the city prioritize the following when looking to rent:
1)cost of rent and location (either parking availability and affordability or easy access to mass transit)
2)bldg amenities like, retail, gym, outdoor pool, common area, etc.
3)new bldg vs old bldg-what the interior of the apartment looks like and how it functions and the amount of living space per cost, laundry in apt or laundry room in basement for tenants
4)look and height of bldg, views from apt.

[PHL10]

^^^ All that is fine but I don't think that was really the point. They would build taller because the market can support it, not as a means to attract tenants necessarily. Jawn's point is that all of these rental buildings seem to cap out in the 300-400 foot range. The financials are obviously driving that height - shorter than that is under building and taller than that must be over building based on supply and demand.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by Jawnadelphia

^Yeah, I don't disagree with any of that.

I'd love to see the math as to why the Philly market for luxury apartments seems to top out at the 300-400 foot range for new towers. At this point, it isn't just a coincidence... The Alexander, Riverwalks, Trader Joe's, 2301 JFK, 1213 Walnut, The Harper, 1620 Sansom, 1919 Market, the University City newer buildings...

I am assuming if we had taller commercial skyscrapers we would see taller residential skyscrapers, for example I believe the skyscrapers around Liberty 1 & 2/ Comcast 1/2 the Residential buildings are taller and closer to their height.

So I think if we want taller residential we need taller commercial.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

I am assuming if we had taller commercial skyscrapers we would see taller residential skyscrapers, for example I believe the skyscrapers around Liberty 1 & 2/ Comcast 1/2 the Residential buildings are taller and closer to their height.

So I think if we want taller residential we need taller commercial.

I think they are unrelated and mutually exclusive. It probably has more to do with zoning and market demand for either commercial or residential that dictates height.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

I think they are unrelated and mutually exclusive. It probably has more to do with zoning and market demand for either commercial or residential that dictates height.

Damn it Iheart you're supposed to just agree with me /s.

That could be true however new buildings are popping up everyday, I don't think demand is an issue, they could easily build some 700 foot scrapers and they would be filled up before the building is in the design element.

It could be zoning like you said.

All I know is the minute we start seeing taller buildings they won't stop being built.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

Damn it Iheart you're supposed to just agree with me /s.

That could be true however new buildings are popping up everyday, I don't think demand is an issue, they could easily build some 700 foot scrapers and they would be filled up before the building is in the design element.

It could be zoning like you said.

All I know is the minute we start seeing taller buildings they won't stop being built.

Well, there's a difference in new building proposals, like we have been seeing of late. But, like some others have noted, that is to get it through the permitting process and the 10-year tax abatement benefit. Whether any of the recent proposals will actually get financed and be shovel ready remains an uncertainty. However, I think long term, as land gets eaten up and if we see a surge in demand for economic reasons, then residential and commercial developments will follow and the only way to go is higher up on these new builidings.

[TK2001]

I will agree with taller buildings, but I think this one is perfect as it is. The shape and the curves that form the building are extremely unique, and the height is not bad for the area, the crown stacks up to form these steps that lead up to Riverwalk.

If there was another supertall in Center City, I would have a major feeling that it could throw off the balance of the skyline. The skyline looks incredible as it is, one of the best views right now is from South Street, I just hate how One Riverside blocks the skyline

[PurpleWhiteOut]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

Damn it Iheart you're supposed to just agree with me /s.

That could be true however new buildings are popping up everyday, I don't think demand is an issue, they could easily build some 700 foot scrapers and they would be filled up before the building is in the design element.

It could be zoning like you said.

All I know is the minute we start seeing taller buildings they won't stop being built.

The fact that building up everyday is part of the issue though when it comes to developer confidence. There's an incredible amount of supply in the pipeline. Even beyond skyscrapers, there are several hundred unit projects popping up all over neighborhoods like Kensington as well, and of course traditional rowhomes. There is a ton of competition for the same bodies, along with an uncertain future market. There's a certain point where height becomes more expensive per floor, so it just goes to show that this is the sweet spot for our current pricing and growth.

[Jawnadelphia]

Originally Posted by doglover99

Do you think the Europeans would agree? NO, they are fine with their mostly low-rise cities and those cities are probably denser and more vibrant than most "cites" with a skyline in NA.

Buddy, of course I get that. I love dense Euro cities. But Philadelphia shattered its height limitations back in the mid-80s and it really needed to, and its been a huge plus for the city -- I believe both economically and psychologically. There's really no denying that. And this being a skyscraper! forum, while I love the density, the supermarket, new residents, elimination of parking lots, its all great -- my only point was it is visually dull to see so many blue-glass, 300-363 ft tall towers sandwiched so close to each other. That's all.

Thanks PHL10 -- your comment above hit the hammer on the head. There's clearly something with building costs and ROI that the 28-35 floors mark is the top off level in Philadelphia for new luxury apts (we can add to the list: Broad and Pine, One Dock Street, the Market East towers.

[summersm343]

275-Unit + Office Tower Planned for 23rd and JFK

Read more here:
http://www.rising.realestate/275-uni...32-p7zIrprkVBs

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by summersm343

275-Unit + Office Tower Planned for 23rd and JFK

Read more here:
http://www.rising.realestate/275-uni...32-p7zIrprkVBs

not sure why they mention an office tower. Typo I guess.