ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[Mikeuke]

Originally Posted by AtlantaMustang

I think the white would look fine on it's own, but the red looks awful, especially along that screwed up arch curve thing that isn't actually curved but some odd shape that was trying to be curved.. ugh, and right on the highway too, where everyone passing can see it.

Those are the company logos / colors. Every one of these has the same logo / colors. Did you think it would be different? I think its amazing what is being built in some of Atlanta given the overall instability in the economy. This building looks awesome to me, along with the continued progress of 10th Street.

[joecool]

Originally Posted by Mikeuke

Those are the company logos / colors. Every one of these has the same logo / colors. Did you think it would be different? I think its amazing what is being built in some of Atlanta given the overall instability in the economy. This building looks awesome to me, along with the continued progress of 10th Street.

I don't like the look of the building during the day, I think it's the ugliest thing ever but at night driving down 75/85 it gives so much life to 10th street from that angle. I love how it looks at night but hate the look of it during the day without the lights. It's better than nothing.

[1lifealex]

Not looking good for the streetcar http://saportareport.com/blog/2012/11/atlanta-streetcar-opening-date-in-2013-may-be-slipping-away/

[ATL_J]

Originally Posted by shivtim

This just isn't true. The dome continues to host a number of very high profile events. The SEC championship, Chick-Fil-A bowl and Chick-Fil-A kickoff games every year, and the NCAA Final Four next year (already hosted twice in the past decade), just for example.

This is absolutely true. This can't be debated. If we want to host a Super Bowl, we need a new stadium, if we want to host non-friendly soccer matches, which plenty of people would love, we would need a new stadium because the Georgia Dome does not qualify. We lost out on the new major bowl between the champions of the Big 12 and SEC mainly because we don't have a new, shiny stadium. All the other events, Final Fours, will be tougher to lure with an outdated stadium, which the Georgia Dome is.

Originally Posted by shivtim

We will eventually need a replacement stadium, and I'm fine with some hotel/motel tax being spent on it, but now is not the time. Maybe 10-15 years from now. There are just WAY better things the city could do right now with $300 million, even when limited to things that directly impact tourists. Improved sidewalks and streetscapes, expand the Ambassador program, fund MARTA renovations, expand the streetcar out to the Beltline, improve police/security, deal with the Ptree/Pine shelter problem, fund more events in Centennial Park, better signs and wayfinding, better crosswalk infrastructure, tourism advertising and promotion, etc etc etc

10-15 years is too late in my opinion. The stadium is already one of the oldest in the NFL and most of the ones older (such as Soldier Field, Arrowhead Stadium) have had massive renovations recently, which would be just as costly as building a new stadium from what has been released; or the team is currently in the process of getting a new stadium or subject to relocation rumors (Buffalo, Minnesota, San Diego, etc.).

And while all these things are nice, and I would love for all of them to be done, I don't think they would bring the same ROI that a stadium would.

Originally Posted by shivtim

I also have zero faith in a new stadium being "integrated" into the surrounding neighborhoods. Football stadiums are too large for that to occur. I can't think of any NFL stadium in the entire county that is well integrated into an urban environment. They all are either suburban or surrounded by parking lots or park space. The concept only really works with smaller (baseball, basketball, hockey) stadiums. If even NYC, DC, Boston, etc can't have an urban NFL stadium, I don't think Atlanta can pull it off. Just look at the Falcon's own estimates for how many parking spaces will be needed for the new stadium.

That's your opinion, but its possible. St. Louis' Edward Jones Dome, Detroit's Ford Field, and Carolina's Bank of America Stadium all do a good job.

Originally Posted by shivtim

And as for the economic benefit, check out the peer-reviewed literature. Most of it says that taxpayer subsidized stadiums either have no effect or a negative effect on the local economy.

I've seen the studies, but all cases are different. The city isn't financing the entire stadium, only a portion, and many of the studies look at "where the money could go" in regards to money spent at the stadium. They look at it in a broad sense saying a person, instead of spending money at the Georgia Dome, could spend the money at a movie theater. Either way, the money is spent into the local economy, correct? But the movie theater isn't subsidized. However, that completely disregards Atlanta's situation. Most people coming to the stadium aren't choosing between spending their money at the stadium in Atlanta or some other business in Atlanta, but rather spending their money in Atlanta or spending their money in their suburban town. Not to mention all the events that we've both talked about that bring in people from out of town.

I wouldn't be crushed if the stadium wasn't built. It's just my opinion it would be a good thing and fortunately the city is committed to this. I understand where you're coming from and I am aware of all the "negatives", I just think the positives outweigh them.

Edit: And to touch on what Simms said, I'm not saying to host a Super Bowl is the reason to build a new stadium, but the Falcons are getting a new stadium. Do you want the stadium in Atlanta or somewhere else in the metro area?

[bigstick]

Originally Posted by ATL_J

This is absolutely true. This can't be debated. If we want to host a Super Bowl, we need a new stadium, if we want to host non-friendly soccer matches, which plenty of people would love, we would need a new stadium because the Georgia Dome does not qualify. We lost out on the new major bowl between the champions of the Big 12 and SEC mainly because we don't have a new, shiny stadium. All the other events, Final Fours, will be tougher to lure with an outdated stadium, which the Georgia Dome is.



10-15 years is too late in my opinion. The stadium is already one of the oldest in the NFL and most of the ones older (such as Soldier Field, Arrowhead Stadium) have had massive renovations recently, which would be just as costly as building a new stadium from what has been released; or the team is currently in the process of getting a new stadium or subject to relocation rumors (Buffalo, Minnesota, San Diego, etc.).

And while all these things are nice, and I would love for all of them to be done, I don't think they would bring the same ROI that a stadium would.



That's your opinion, but its possible. St. Louis' Edward Jones Dome, Detroit's Ford Field, and Carolina's Bank of America Stadium all do a good job.



I've seen the studies, but all cases are different. The city isn't financing the entire stadium, only a portion, and many of the studies look at "where the money could go" in regards to money spent at the stadium. They look at it in a broad sense saying a person, instead of spending money at the Georgia Dome, could spend the money at a movie theater. Either way, the money is spent into the local economy, correct? But the movie theater isn't subsidized. However, that completely disregards Atlanta's situation. Most people coming to the stadium aren't choosing between spending their money at the stadium in Atlanta or some other business in Atlanta, but rather spending their money in Atlanta or spending their money in their suburban town. Not to mention all the events that we've both talked about that bring in people from out of town.

I wouldn't be crushed if the stadium wasn't built. It's just my opinion it would be a good thing and fortunately the city is committed to this. I understand where you're coming from and I am aware of all the "negatives", I just think the positives outweigh them.

Edit: And to touch on what Simms said, I'm not saying to host a Super Bowl is the reason to build a new stadium, but the Falcons are getting a new stadium. Do you want the stadium in Atlanta or somewhere else in the metro area?

The new stadium NEEDS to stay downtown.................

[ATL_J]

Edit.

[shivtim]

ATL_J, I hear everything you're saying, but I disagree for one key reason. The big question here is not "what are the potential benefits/detriments of public funding for a new stadium." The question is "what is the best way to spend the hotel tax to benefit Atlanta and downtown and promote tourism?" There's no evidence that a new stadium is the answer, and there's plenty of evidence that other expenditures are the answer.

For the record I still disagree with your statement that the Dome doesn't draw big events. You say it "can't be debated," but it obviously can. The Super Bowl is about the only thing we can't get. Hosting the yearly SEC championships (football and basketball) is huge. Hosting a yearly major bowl game is huge. If the age of the Dome was a big deal, why wouldn't those events move to Charlotte, Jacksonville, Nashville, or Tampa? Those are the closest stadiums and they're all newer than the Dome. Why would we be hosting the third NCAA final four in a decade? This is the biggest event in college basketball, which could be hosted anywhere in the country, and the Dome gets it next year. As for soccer, the Dome didn't even host an international friendly match until 2009. So it's not a matter of age of the Dome, it's a matter of shifting demographics and changes in the market for soccer in Atlanta and the South. The Dome is pretty much the premier venue in the Southeast.

[ATLaffinity]

I tend to agree with ATL_J. New stadium is coming. Get on board and hope it can serve more than the NFL (hopefully MLS expansion).

Plus, it's a mini construction stimulus. It's not like it gets built without employing workers.

For $1B, you'd think you could build the most striking stadium in the world.
But this being ATL, I'm sure design-wise it will be the GA Aquarium of stadiums.

Wish we could get some interesting architecture like...

[ChrisInmanPark]

Originally Posted by 1lifealex

Not looking good for the streetcar http://saportareport.com/blog/2012/11/atlanta-streetcar-opening-date-in-2013-may-be-slipping-away/

Bad news but not unexpected. They are running into the same utility problems the Beltline folks did on the Eastside trail. You have 100+ years of utilities on Auburn and Edgewood and there are bound to be surprises. Not to mention the old street car lines are all still there, buried under layers of asphalt.

I just feel bad for the business there. It's hard enough for me to ride my bike through there now. I can imagine how people feel around driving down there. Lets hope they survive, because when the streetcar is done it's going to spur a massive amount of development!

[Dale]

Surely $1B will go further in ATL than in, say, New Jersey, a lot farther. Yes, it cost $1.7B to build Giants-Jets stadium. But land and building costs would have to be SIGNIFICANTLY higher up there.

[ChrisInmanPark]

Renderings for the apartment project at 280 Elizabeth Street in Inman Park.

[micropundit]

http://atlurbanist.tumblr.com/post/36808...sidents-coming-to-downtown#disqus_thread

[Terminus]

Originally Posted by micropundit

http://atlurbanist.tumblr.com/post/36808...sidents-coming-to-downtown#disqus_thread

Ignore this rendering. It's hopelessly outdated. The Downtown DRC and the City worked with them to come up with a much better plan. I have it as a PDF but can't post it. If somebody messages me I'll mail it to them to post. It is, after all, now public record.

[Zanarkand A East]

Originally Posted by ATL_J

This is absolutely true. This can't be debated. If we want to host a Super Bowl, we need a new stadium, if we want to host non-friendly soccer matches, which plenty of people would love, we would need a new stadium because the Georgia Dome does not qualify. We lost out on the new major bowl between the champions of the Big 12 and SEC mainly because we don't have a new, shiny stadium. All the other events, Final Fours, will be tougher to lure with an outdated stadium, which the Georgia Dome is.



10-15 years is too late in my opinion. The stadium is already one of the oldest in the NFL and most of the ones older (such as Soldier Field, Arrowhead Stadium) have had massive renovations recently, which would be just as costly as building a new stadium from what has been released; or the team is currently in the process of getting a new stadium or subject to relocation rumors (Buffalo, Minnesota, San Diego, etc.).

And while all these things are nice, and I would love for all of them to be done, I don't think they would bring the same ROI that a stadium would.



That's your opinion, but its possible. St. Louis' Edward Jones Dome, Detroit's Ford Field, and Carolina's Bank of America Stadium all do a good job.



I've seen the studies, but all cases are different. The city isn't financing the entire stadium, only a portion, and many of the studies look at "where the money could go" in regards to money spent at the stadium. They look at it in a broad sense saying a person, instead of spending money at the Georgia Dome, could spend the money at a movie theater. Either way, the money is spent into the local economy, correct? But the movie theater isn't subsidized. However, that completely disregards Atlanta's situation. Most people coming to the stadium aren't choosing between spending their money at the stadium in Atlanta or some other business in Atlanta, but rather spending their money in Atlanta or spending their money in their suburban town. Not to mention all the events that we've both talked about that bring in people from out of town.

Right on the money. The Georgia Dome will have a hard time competing with the newer stadiums as time passes, and a new stadium could be in the running to host an NBA All Star Game, since Jerry World hosted it. All the events that are hosted at the Georgia Dome would be even better at a new facility, and the Northside at Ivan Allen location would put it even closer to the Aquarium and other tourist venues without being any farther from the GWCC. The west side is the mayor's neighborhood, so I believe he will make sure Vine City benefits from this project, and I'd rather take care of this by year's end, as expected, than get left behind. As far as Blank, this isn't just about hosting a Superbowl, it's about getting a bigger piece of the pie from events at a new facility, and the current deal negotiated by the previous owners isn't as lucrative as in other NFL markets. I'm all for the new stadium, and only having to pay for 1/3 of it, and letting tourists pay for it, is a hell of a deal, especially since this isn't a "new" tax, and it can, by law, only be used on tourism anyway (not teachers, police, etc., as people have suggested elsewhere.)

In the meantime, I'm satisfied to see the Falcons destroy the Aints tonight in the Georgia Dome

[Zanarkand A East]

Originally Posted by ATLaffinity

I tend to agree with ATL_J. New stadium is coming. Get on board and hope it can serve more than the NFL (hopefully MLS expansion).

Garber: MLS expansion to South requires new stadiums

I wouldn't be surprised to see Garber at the stadium deal announcement later this year...

[bigstick]

Yesterday, with all of this incredible weather we are having, I decided to check out the part of the Belt-line that has been completed from Monroe to Krog Street. It is simply amazing, and it truly gives a whole new feeling to this great city. You need to check it out this weekend, it is truly unbelievable what has been accomplished.

[testarossa50]

From today's Atlanta Business Chronicle

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/print-edition/2012/11/30/apartment-project-planned-near.html

An Atlanta developer is planning a 329-unit apartment building by Atlantic Station — the latest intown multifamily project in the pipeline.

Pollack Shores Real Estate Group has reached an agreement with the landowner, the Georgia Tech Foundation, to buy a more than 3-acre site at 16th, 17th and Mecaslin streets. The property is across from the IKEA retail store, but not part of Atlantic Station.

>100 units/acre...not bad at all

[ChrisInmanPark]

Originally Posted by testarossa50

From today's Atlanta Business Chronicle

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/print-edition/2012/11/30/apartment-project-planned-near.html

An Atlanta developer is planning a 329-unit apartment building by Atlantic Station — the latest intown multifamily project in the pipeline.

Pollack Shores Real Estate Group has reached an agreement with the landowner, the Georgia Tech Foundation, to buy a more than 3-acre site at 16th, 17th and Mecaslin streets. The property is across from the IKEA retail store, but not part of Atlantic Station.

>100 units/acre...not bad at all

I don't see any empty land on the map bounded by 16th, 17th and Mecaslin streets. Could it be the empty lot where they were once thinking of putting the Amtrak station?

[Jonatlanta]

There is a plot of land covered in grass across from Ikea. I think there was a putting green for Tech at some point there.

[smArTaLlone]

Originally Posted by ChrisInmanPark

I don't see any empty land on the map bounded by 16th, 17th and Mecaslin streets. Could it be the empty lot where they were once thinking of putting the Amtrak station?

Its the lot at 16th and Mecaslin. There was a 600 unit project planned there a few years ago.