Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[savevp]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The only way this daft project makes sense is if the end point is the return of the Montreal Expos.

To what end though? Montreal supporting the Expos better this time round because they’ll presumably have an outdoor stadium? I give the novelty factor one season before people remember why we build domed stadia in this country.

The idea of the Rays moving north in the summer works on climactic grounds but little else. I’d love to see it but that would be a hefty investment for a new terrasse.

A daft project indeed...

[elly63]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

They're obviously betting on the 50/50 split quickly favouring Montreal as a full-time location for the Rays. I've been following the saga on the Ray's subreddit, and there's pretty good consensus that if this split happens, then the Rays days in Tampa are numbered.

I think that as well

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by savevp

To what end though? Montreal supporting the Expos better this time round because they’ll presumably have an outdoor stadium? I give the novelty factor one season before people remember why we build domed stadia in this country.

The idea of the Rays moving north in the summer works on climactic grounds but little else. I’d love to see it but that would be a hefty investment for a new terrasse.

A daft project indeed...

The economics of Major League Baseball in minor markets have not improved since the Expos era. Even though Montreal has done better economically over that timespan, the long-term feasibility of such a team in the age of $200 million US payrolls is pretty questionable.

Ponying up $500 million+ for a new baseball only stadium is just the nail in the coffin.

So, this goes into the file of ‘Blue Jays building new stadium, leaving SkyDome’, ‘The NFL is coming to Canada’, and ‘The Grizzlies are coming back’ hopes and dreams we discuss so often but run smack dab into economic reality.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by savevp

To what end though? Montreal supporting the Expos better this time round because they’ll presumably have an outdoor stadium? I give the novelty factor one season before people remember why we build domed stadia in this country.

The idea of the Rays moving north in the summer works on climactic grounds but little else. I’d love to see it but that would be a hefty investment for a new terrasse.

A daft project indeed...

In some respects an outdoor stadium makes a full-time MLB team in Montreal a very difficult proposition. Crappy weather weeds out the casual fans, and I doubt that there is enough hardcore baseball fandom in Montreal to sustain the team during a damp 10 degree week in early May, for instance. It is comical to me to imagine people paying $100 a ticket to freeze their heinies off by the St. Lawrence when a warm and dry Big O is sitting empty a few miles away.

There hasn't been an MLB game played in poor (cold/wet) weather in Canada since 1988, and to your point, I suppose people must have forgotten what that's like.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Nothing concrete yet, but a group in Ottawa want to build a world class aquatics centre and hotel at Hurdman, an empty field just south of Downtown and the University of Ottawa, well connected by active pathways and the transfer point between the South-East Transitway and O-Train Line 1 (and 3 by 2025). VIA Rail is one station away from the area. Facilities for other sports could also be included.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ot...!4d-75.6971931

The City wants to build it, and is trying to attract a hotel https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...plex-1.6306572


I'm surprised Ottawa doesn't have a single 50m pool. In Alberta Grande Prairie, Fort McMurray and Lethbridge have all built 50m competition pools. Calgary has 3.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

I'm surprised Ottawa doesn't have a single 50m pool.

The article leads with the fact that there's a 50m pool in Nepean, but it's fallen below international standards.

Hurdman makes logical sense for a location. It's central and easy to reach by transit. I think there's issues with a lot of the land to the south of the station due to it previously being a landfill, so something non-residential makes sense as a build. Interested to see how this plays out.

[thurmas]

I think a multi purpose open air 30,000 seat ballpark could work. The lower deck stands would just need to be on rails to switch from a diamond to a field for cfl and possibly soccer. It would not be like the monstrosities from the 70s as its more intimate and not a dome. It also gives the rays bargaining power if Tampa falls through. Shea stadium and bush stadium were not as bad as some of the other multi purpose stadiums were they seemed to transition from baseball to football without much issues

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

The City wants to build it, and is trying to attract a hotel https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...plex-1.6306572


I'm surprised Ottawa doesn't have a single 50m pool. In Alberta Grande Prairie, Fort McMurray and Lethbridge have all built 50m competition pools. Calgary has 3.

Gatineau has a fairly new one that's close to my place and that is suitable for international swimming and diving competitions. Though I haven't heard of Ottawa swimmers or divers coming to train here. Maybe some do, though.

https://www.google.com/search?q=gati...ih=577&dpr=1.5

[esquire]

On a related note and out of curiosity, how many legit competition pools are there in Canada that could hold a major international swim meet without requiring tons of upgrades/expansion first?

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by esquire

On a related note and out of curiosity, how many legit competition pools are there in Canada that could hold a major international swim meet without requiring tons of upgrades/expansion first?

Likely ready to go: Montreal, Toronto for sure.

Minor work (hosted major games in the past): Victoria (Commonwealth), Edmonton (Commonwealth & Universiade), and Winnipeg (Pan-Am x2)

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Likely ready to go: Montreal, Toronto for sure.

Minor work (hosted major games in the past): Victoria (Commonwealth), Edmonton (Commonwealth & Universiade), and Winnipeg (Pan-Am x2)

I'm guessing some Canada Summer Games facilities could host, as well. Saint John and London both have suitable enough facilities to host large-scale events. IIRC Saint John used to host Maine swim meets because that state lacked an Olympic size pool until 2020 when they built one in Colby.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Likely ready to go: Montreal, Toronto for sure.

Minor work (hosted major games in the past): Victoria (Commonwealth), Edmonton (Commonwealth & Universiade), and Winnipeg (Pan-Am x2)

Pan Am in Winnipeg just got a fairly substantial renovation a couple of years ago and they actually added a second 50m/8 lane training tank before the 1999 Pan Am Games so it's pretty good for provincial/national uses, although I'm guessing it's too old and out of date relative to other major pools to host major international competitions anymore.

Originally Posted by JHikka

I'm guessing some Canada Summer Games facilities could host, as well. Saint John and London both have suitable enough facilities to host large-scale events. IIRC Saint John used to host Maine swim meets because that state lacked an Olympic size pool until 2020 when they built one in Colby.

I was curious so I looked it up and Brandon, Manitoba has a 50 m pool from the 1979 Canada Games, but oddly it's only 6 lanes instead of 8 and that ended up derailing their bid to host the 2017 Canada Games.

I'm not that familiar with aquatics but I guess these types of large competition pools must cost a fortune to build and maintain because they seem to be quite rare.

[jamincan]

Originally Posted by esquire

Pan Am in Winnipeg just got a fairly substantial renovation a couple of years ago and they actually added a second 50m/8 lane training tank before the 1999 Pan Am Games so it's pretty good for provincial/national uses, although I'm guessing it's too old and out of date relative to other major pools to host major international competitions anymore.

What would make a pool too old and out-of-date to host competitions? If it is the right length and has a warmup pool, it seems to me that it should be fine for competition.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by jamincan

What would make a pool too old and out-of-date to host competitions? If it is the right length and has a warmup pool, it seems to me that it should be fine for competition.

Again, I'm not an aquatics guy, but there must be some obstacle... I don't think there has been an international swimming/diving event in Winnipeg since the 99 Pan Am Games? Pan Am Pool is a nice looking building but it definitely looks older than the ones you typically see hosting events on TV. I figured that since it was over a half-century old it was missing some essential elements found in newer pools.

Here's how it looked when built... kind of reminds me of The Summit:



Unfortunately it was on the receiving end of some 90s-era uglification when it was expanded before the 1999 Pan Am Games:



Here's how it looks inside:

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by esquire

Again, I'm not an aquatics guy, but there must be some obstacle... I don't think there has been an international swimming/diving event in Winnipeg since the 99 Pan Am Games? Pan Am Pool is a nice looking building but it definitely looks older than the ones you typically see hosting events on TV. I figured that since it was over a half-century old it was missing some essential elements found in newer pools.

Here's how it looked when built... kind of reminds me of The Summit:



Unfortunately it was on the receiving end of some 90s-era uglification when it was expanded before the 1999 Pan Am Games:

What terrible addition. Reminds me of the Rideau Carleton Raceway and Casino in rural Ottawa.


https://obj.ca/article/hard-rock-rid...-casino-revamp

[esquire]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

What terrible addition. Reminds me of the Rideau Carleton Raceway and Casino in rural Ottawa.

Oh yeah, it is absolute dogshit. The mid/late 90s was not a kind time to austere mid-century modern design. Most buildings that survived the era managed to get through unscathed, but some received the architectural equivalent of a cheap collagen lip injection by an unlicensed practitioner at the back of some shady salon.

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by jamincan

What would make a pool too old and out-of-date to host competitions? If it is the right length and has a warmup pool, it seems to me that it should be fine for competition.

There are a lot of rules instituted since Kinsmen in Edmonton and Pan Am pool in Winnipeg were built.

https://www.lifesaving.org/public/do...20lane%20line.

HIGH PERFORMANCE CENTRES. SWIM CANADA

TORONTO PAN AM SPORTS CENTRE (TPASC)
UBC AQUATIC CENTRE
CENTER SPORTIF PARC-OLYMPIQUE – INS


Other Comp pools for FINA events
Winnipeg Pan Am Pool
Edmonton Kinsmen Pools
Vancouver UBC Aquatic Centre
Quebec PEPS University Laval
Point Claire Aquatic Centre
Victoria Saanich Commonwealth Place

Swim Canada has a list of all the completion pools and their limitations.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by esquire

There hasn't been an MLB game played in poor (cold/wet) weather in Canada since 1988, and to your point, I suppose people must have forgotten what that's like.

1989 actually, including the second last game that I tried to go to at the Ex, on Mothers Day weekend, with wet snow. The make-up game was a doubleheader at the Dome in July that David Wells won both ends of.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

1989 actually, including the second last game that I tried to go to at the Ex, on Mothers Day weekend, with wet snow. The make-up game was a doubleheader at the Dome in July that David Wells won both ends of.

Thanks for the correction, I assumed that the Jays started the 89 season at Skydome.

[bridgeoftea]

Originally Posted by thurmas

I am amazed when I travel to U.S. cities in the midwest be it Detroit, Minneapolis even little ol Grand Forks North Dakota how intense and passionate the sporting cultures there is for pro and ncaa sports be it baseball, softball, hockey football it is simply insane compared to other countries in the world that are passionate about 1 maybe 2 sports in their cultures.

Super late reply on this one.
I wish we had one sport in the US/Canada that had a similar pattern to Soccer in Europe with the promotion and relegation aspects. Imagine the NHL starting out back in the day not as a franchised league but adding maybe 2 teams in Boston, 3 in Montreal etc. Where cross town rivalries would be more of a thing. It would also open up chances of cities that may not seem "obvious" to be a top league NHL team, say Manchester NH or Grand Forks.

I know it's a completely different world but I do think of teams in European soccer from small towns that have been in top divisions or come close such as Bournemouth, Villareal, Hoffenheim, Wolfsberger etc.

Just a ramble thought process wishing it wasn't always expansion fees and 32 people in suits allowing you to join their private league.