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  #541  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2013, 7:57 PM
Buggys Buggys is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Barrhaven's Transitway has been built over the last 10 years and it would be foolish to convert it now. They will only have to travel by bus a few km north to an underground station where they will then travel the majority of their trip by rail.

Kanata on the other hand, I don't understand why they were left out. It seems to me that the Kanata North Transitway, along with the Baseline Transitway (no clue why that's even being considered) should be dropped in favor of finally serving the Corel Centre. Not only would that be a HUGE benefit to the whole city (one train from Orleans to the Corel Centre, massive traffic relief for around 100 event nights), it would also throw a bone to Melnyk after him being snubbed by the City with the whole casino debate.
My understanding is the Baseline corridor would not be a BRT (just better accommondation of buses on the road), and dropping it would not save much $. The proposed portion of Baseline in the draft 2013 TMP mostly has bus lanes already (except for the stretch along the farm).

I agree with you that Kanata should be getting LRT. It would be fair to taxpayers in the West Suburbs (vs South and East) especially given the relatively high population in Kanata/Stittsville, accommodate traffic loads on game days, and allow for a park & ride on the Western end of the LRT (there's NONE in draft 2013 TMP for one in the Western end!).

If you had to choose, which proposal(s) would you drop from the draft 2013 TMP, so that Kanata would also get LRT?

Last edited by Buggys; Oct 12, 2013 at 8:22 PM. Reason: remembered that there are currently no bus lanes along the farm
     
     
  #542  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2013, 8:20 PM
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...If it were up to me, I might drop the O-train extension South of Greenboro (while keeping the new Gladstone & Walkley stations in the plans), so that Kanata would get LRT. Population in Kanata + Stittsville is much bigger than Riverside South. (I didn't lump Barrhaven with Riverside South because Barrhaven residents already have BRT.)

Another idea would be to push the # of years in the plan further (to perhaps 2036?) to include Kanata LRT in addition to existing elements on the draft 2013 TMP.
     
     
  #543  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2013, 10:32 PM
TransitZilla TransitZilla is offline
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...If it were up to me, I might drop the O-train extension South of Greenboro (while keeping the new Gladstone & Walkley stations in the plans), so that Kanata would get LRT. Population in Kanata + Stittsville is much bigger than Riverside South. (I didn't lump Barrhaven with Riverside South because Barrhaven residents already have BRT.)

Another idea would be to push the # of years in the plan further (to perhaps 2036?) to include Kanata LRT in addition to existing elements on the draft 2013 TMP.
Yeah, screw the south end; no one lives there, right???

The cost of extending the O-Train south of Greenboro is about $80M. Nowhere close to what would be required to extend LRT to Kanata.
     
     
  #544  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2013, 11:38 PM
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Yeah, screw the south end; no one lives there, right???

The cost of extending the O-Train south of Greenboro is about $80M. Nowhere close to what would be required to extend LRT to Kanata.
Lol. Don't take it personally. I was just looking at the population statistics.
     
     
  #545  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2013, 12:17 AM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Lol. Don't take it personally. I was just looking at the population statistics.
Well, this is called an 'affordable' plan. Extending LRT from Bayshore to Kanata will cost at least an additional $1B and to CTC will be $1B++++.

I will go on the record as being from the south end (but I will not benefit from an extension of the O-Train) but it is high time that the south end receive some decent transportation infrastructure especially given that the airport acts as a huge blockade limiting transportation routes and the NIMBYs who have effectively blocked the development or expansion of existing transportation corridors such as the Airport Parkway and the Alta Vista Parkway. I would much prefer that we invest in rail transit that road expansion.

We simply cannot continue to funnel all traffic onto Riverside Drive and Bank Street. You will note the Bus Route 99 cannot even use Riverside Drive because of horrendous traffic conditions around the Hunt Club Road Bridge.

So what is your answer to south end transportation issues? Do nothing for the next 35 years? Remember the affordable plan means that not much else will be built until after 2048. We have choices for the south end. Extend the O-Train, build a Transitway across the Greenbelt or do a whole load of road expansions. I don't see any big savings amongst those choices when compared to the O-Train.

Last edited by lrt's friend; Oct 13, 2013 at 12:29 AM.
     
     
  #546  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2013, 1:52 AM
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I will go on the record as being from the south end (but I will not benefit from an extension of the O-Train) but it is high time that the south end receive some decent transportation infrastructure especially given that the airport acts as a huge blockade limiting transportation routes and the NIMBYs who have effectively blocked the development or expansion of existing transportation corridors such as the Airport Parkway and the Alta Vista Parkway. I would much prefer that we invest in rail transit that road expansion.

We simply cannot continue to funnel all traffic onto Riverside Drive and Bank Street. You will note the Bus Route 99 cannot even use Riverside Drive because of horrendous traffic conditions around the Hunt Club Road Bridge.
I would agree - extending the soon-to-be-more frequent O-Train represents a comparatively affordable commuting infrastructure option for the residents of Riverside South and Findlay Creek, which are expanding horrifyingly due to land agreements signed years ago.

I was outside the O-Train platform over a year ago, and several wild-eyed Findlay Creekers were asking me if I had seen their milk run bus (144?) that sloooowly takes them home from Greenboro. Having a park and ride lot midway between R. South and F. Creek would encourage quite a few commuters to not make the trip downtown on those limited roads.
     
     
  #547  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2013, 2:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Buggys View Post
If you had to choose, which proposal(s) would you drop from the draft 2013 TMP, so that Kanata would also get LRT?
Droping the Kanata North Transitway would be a good start. Otherwise, I would modify the O-Train proposal; add the Walkley and Gladstone stations and extended it as far south as the airport (if only to serve the E&Y Centre). The south end can make due with the current Transitway and bus/carpool lanes up to South Keys station (using Albion/Bank/Hunt Club).

If the Baseline plan is only bus lanes, I'm withdrawing my opposition.
     
     
  #548  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2013, 1:09 PM
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I like your airport compromise. Here's what I drew as an alternative to draft 2013 TMP "affordable plan":
http://www.flickr.com/photos/97211272@N07/10245356646/


(compare with draft 2013 TMP "affordable plan" http://ottawa.ca/sites/ottawa.ca/files/tmpmap2_rapid_ttpn.pdf)

Solid black lines are routes for new LRT by 2031.
Dashed black lines are routes for BRT or conversion to LRT after 2031.
Black dots are stations.
Black P means park & ride.

The Kanata North & Baseline at-grade BRT's should be dropped as-is. New bus lanes can be added as needed -- nothing fancy.

The Airport/E&Y Station with park & ride would contribute towards alleviating traffic issues between the airport & downtown. R.Southers and F.Creekers can either take a local bus or drive between their home and Airport station. Airport/E&Y visitors would be more inclined to take the LRT if the station stops there directly rather than a spur.

Kanatans & Stittsvillians going downtown won't need to go on a bus, to a bus, to LRT. They can take a local bus or drive, then hop on to the LRT. People visiting the Canadian Tire Centre from within the greenbelt can take the LRT directly, or park at the last stop before the greenbelt before taking the LRT. For the many people who live within the greenbelt and work in Kanata North, take the LRT to new Eagleson Station, and take a local bus.

Last edited by Buggys; Oct 13, 2013 at 1:33 PM. Reason: tried to get the image to load
     
     
  #549  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2013, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buggys View Post
I like your airport compromise. Here's what I drew as an alternative to draft 2013 TMP "affordable plan":
http://www.flickr.com/photos/97211272@N07/10245356646/


(compare with draft 2013 TMP "affordable plan" http://ottawa.ca/sites/ottawa.ca/files/tmpmap2_rapid_ttpn.pdf)

Solid black lines are routes for new LRT by 2031.
Dashed black lines are routes for BRT or conversion to LRT after 2031.
Black dots are stations.
Black P means park & ride.

The Kanata North & Baseline at-grade BRT's should be dropped as-is. New bus lanes can be added as needed -- nothing fancy.

The Airport/E&Y Station with park & ride would contribute towards alleviating traffic issues between the airport & downtown. R.Southers and F.Creekers can either take a local bus or drive between their home and Airport station. Airport/E&Y visitors would be more inclined to take the LRT if the station stops there directly rather than a spur.

Kanatans & Stittsvillians going downtown won't need to go on a bus, to a bus, to LRT. They can take a local bus or drive, then hop on to the LRT. People visiting the Canadian Tire Centre from within the greenbelt can take the LRT directly, or park at the last stop before the greenbelt before taking the LRT. For the many people who live within the greenbelt and work in Kanata North, take the LRT to new Eagleson Station, and take a local bus.
If we're spending 3 billion to serve the burbs', this is as good as it gets!
     
     
  #550  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2013, 12:56 AM
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Once the tunnel is complete, can the City keep the mining machines? I'm not sure if we would even use them again in the next 20 years; all other ORT tunnel section seem to be good candidates for cut and cover. That said, if they do eventually build the King Edward tunnel (I'm surprised Watson hadn't mentioned it Wednesday), they might come in handy.

Image from the Citizen explaining tunneling method;



http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/ottawa...ly+noticeable+outside/9027502/story.html

Last edited by J.OT13; Oct 14, 2013 at 3:15 AM.
     
     
  #551  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2013, 3:40 PM
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Once the tunnel is complete, can the City keep the mining machines?
Wishful thinking. They are owned or leased by the contractor, who is bringing them in from a previous job in New York (and another from Austria) and will no doubt be taking them to the next big project once this one is done. Do you get to keep the mechanic's tools when you get your car back from the shop?

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/ottawa/Boring+beneath+Bytown/9026057/story.html
     
     
  #552  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2013, 8:50 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Wishful thinking. They are owned or leased by the contractor, who is bringing them in from a previous job in New York (and another from Austria) and will no doubt be taking them to the next big project once this one is done. Do you get to keep the mechanic's tools when you get your car back from the shop?

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/ottawa/Boring+beneath+Bytown/9026057/story.html
Obvious solution: BUILD MOAR TUNNILZ!
     
     
  #553  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2013, 10:33 PM
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The south end can make due with the current Transitway and bus/carpool lanes up to South Keys station (using Albion/Bank/Hunt Club).
Sorry, that isn't going to happen. Albion Road is a two lane residential street. Besides, how much would you really save having to add additional lanes to all these roadways? And then the Bank and Hunt Club intersection is one of the most congested in the city.
     
     
  #554  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2013, 12:39 AM
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Sorry, that isn't going to happen. Albion Road is a two lane residential street. Besides, how much would you really save having to add additional lanes to all these roadways? And then the Bank and Hunt Club intersection is one of the most congested in the city.
I thought the Albion road widening was already in the City's plans. The new lanes could be HOV during rush hour. As for Bank/Hunt Club, I'm sure they could find a reasonable solution. If not, they could redirect the buses down Lester to the E&Y station.
     
     
  #555  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2013, 1:26 AM
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I thought the Albion road widening was already in the City's plans. The new lanes could be HOV during rush hour. As for Bank/Hunt Club, I'm sure they could find a reasonable solution. If not, they could redirect the buses down Lester to the E&Y station.
Grade separated interchange? That would reduce delays greatly. It would require some land in the strip plazas though (which could be redeveloped anyway).
     
     
  #556  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2013, 2:49 AM
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Federal government worried LRT will debilitate flagship observatory

By Will Campbell, The Canadian Press October 14, 2013




The federal government is worried Ottawa's light rail transit line will cripple a premier scientific observatory and jeopardize a national monitoring network used to track the weather in space, documents show.

Natural Resources Canada’s geomagnetic research laboratory is planted in a bog in the city’s east end and keeps tabs on how energy particles thrown off by the sun affect Earth’s magnetic field and technologies such as satellites and GPS navigation systems.

But the department is concerned that some more terrestrial interference emitted from the city’s $2.1-billion electric transit line funded in part by the federal government may put the facility on the fritz, an internal memo states.

“From observations of magnetic noise at similar facilities internationally, and modelling by NRCan and other groups, suggest that such LRT systems are very powerful sources of low-frequency magnetic noise, and will generate sporadic noise levels sufficient to exceed international standards,” says the document obtained by The Canadian Press under access to information.

“Predicted noise will significantly impact observatory operations at Anderson Road and render the calibration facility inoperable at its present location.”

The lab serves as the headquarters of the federal government’s geomagnetic monitoring service and is relied upon to set calibration standards for its network of 12 other magnetic observatories dotting the country. The facility also aids efforts to monitor earthquakes, among other duties.

Observatory sites are specially chosen to meet tough international standards for magnetic interference, the levels of which must remain stable over the long term so Earth’s magnetic fields can by measured accurately, the memo notes.

As such, the 45-year-old Ottawa lab sits in a carved-out section of the 3,500-hectare Mer Bleue peat-moss bog.

But that may be too close to the easternmost station on the 13-stop Confederation Line, which will be placed above ground nearly seven kilometres away.

The August 2012 memo notes that on the federal government’s urging the transit line’s design has been tweaked to hopefully reduce the magnetic-noise impact, but cautions the full extent of just what the interference will do to the facility won’t be known until the LRT — built with $600 million in federal funding — has its maiden test voyage in 2017.

An NRCan spokeswoman said in an email the department is mulling over moving the calibration station.

“There are several diverse NRCan programs which operate from and rely on the Anderson road facility. There are ongoing discussions about the possible relocation of the magnetic calibration facility but, at this stage, the costs are not yet defined,” Jacinthe Perras said.

She added that the department will “continue to review” its options for the electromagnetic monitoring network if the “national reference” Ottawa observatory is knocked out.

The City of Ottawa insists the 12.5-kilometre LRT line won’t take a toll on the flagship research post.

“The city has a close, productive working relationship with NRCan and does not believe the Confederation Line will impact their facility on Anderson Road,” director of rail implementation Gary Craig said in an email.

“Specifically, the city has been in regular communication with NRCan for over a year and a half to address their concerns” through the technical and environmental review process, he said.

But Perras reiterated that answers won’t arrive until the transit line is finally powered up.

“NRCan maintains that the impact on the magnetic measurements at the Anderson road facility will only be known for certain once the (light rail) testing and regular operations begin,” she added.
© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/technology/...hip+observatory+fritz/9034476/story.html
     
     
  #557  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2013, 3:38 AM
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I could see the Cumberland corridor causing a problem, maybe... but not the 174 corridor. The line will just keep going north for 2 km. Blair is pretty much as close as the ORT will get to the NRC facility.
     
     
  #558  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2013, 2:27 PM
Capital Shaun Capital Shaun is offline
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[B]Federal government worried LRT will debilitate flagship observatory
Why didn't they bring up their concerns sooner? It's not like the LRT construction appeared out of thin air.
     
     
  #559  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2013, 2:46 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Sorry, that isn't going to happen. Albion Road is a two lane residential street.
North of Hunt Club.

South, it's a lesser arterial.
     
     
  #560  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2013, 4:46 PM
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Why didn't they bring up their concerns sooner? It's not like the LRT construction appeared out of thin air.
this isn't the first mention of this concern.
     
     
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