The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[Rico Rommheim]

Great news on the Caisse/transit partnership. This is exactly what Montreal's transit system needed, a real good kick from a reliable and loaded local investor. La Caisse is already investing in transit in Vancouver and in Europe. Why not here?

Airport link by 2020? That's a good piece of news.

[Chadillaccc]

Bridge over Prince’s Island, 45-metre deep station among Calgary’s north-central LRT options

A train on the Centre Street bridge. A tunnel under the Bow River. A bridge over Prince’s Island Park. A 15-metre elevated track that runs above downtown +15 skywalks.

These ideas may sound ambitious – crazy, even – but at least one of them will be seriously undertaken, no matter which of four options Calgary city council approves for the eventual north-central line of the LRT.

“This is exciting,” Mayor Naheed Nenshi said Tuesday as senior transit planner Jonathan Lea explained the four possible routes, all of which involve a CTrain along Centre Street North.

The question is how far to run that track on top of Centre Street versus below it, and then how to cross the Bow River and get through downtown heading to 10 Avenue South.

Option one would see light-rail tracks replace at least one traffic lane on the existing Centre Street bridge, then make a “very sharp turn” at 3 Avenue and continue south through downtown, mostly at-grade but tunnelling beneath the existing 7 Avenue LRT tracks and the CPR tracks.

Option two would see a long and deep tunnel run all the way from 24 Avenue North, under the Bow River, under downtown, and emerge at 10 Avenue South. Lea said this option would mean the station at 9 Avenue North would have to be built 45 metres under ground.

“It can be done but there are impacts – cost and operating impacts,” he said of such a “very deep” station.

Option three would involve a shorter and shallower tunnel starting at about 20 Avenue South and then emerging to cross the Bow River over a new, “zero emissions” bridge – open to just CTrains, cyclists and pedestrians – that would continue over top of Prince’s Island Park and touch down in Eau Claire, then tunnel beneath the 7 Avenue LRT and CPR tracks.

“So that’s one of the big impacts of this one – you’d have a new concrete structure over one of our beloved parks,” Lea said.

Option four would be similar, but would see elevated tracks continue all the way through downtown and over the CPR tracks to 10 Avenue South, including running above +15 walkways along 2 Street SW.

“We’d have to be 15 metres in air to clear these, so that’s about the same scale as Sunalta Station,” Lea said.

Council’s transportation and transit committee will discuss the options on Feb. 18.

Full story: http://metronews.ca/news/calgary/1260461...mong-calgarys-north-central-lrt-options/

[1overcosc]

In your city, how long do bus drivers wait for passengers to settle in? In Kingston, bus drivers are notoriously lead footed, as soon as everyone's paid their fare, the driver drives off at full speed, leaving the passengers scrambling to get to their seats as the bus speeds up. In Ottawa, bus drivers generally wait for people to sit before driving off, or at least they wait until people are on their way to their seats.

I'm divided on which approach is better. Ottawa's is a lot better for passenger comfort, but Kingston's way of doing things leads to much faster trips especially on local routes that stop a lot.

[telyou]

Originally Posted by SkahHigh

The only thing they're doing is funding the projects and getting some revenue. There will still be a bidding process for construction operators. This will help accelerate the progress of transit extensions/constructions in Montreal, which are greatly needed...

You don't get it do you. Sole sourcing billion dollar projects without a competitive bidding process will always have the government spend more money then it needs too. This is the same mistake STM and TTC did by just handing out Bombardier the contracts even though it was known that other companies can do it for much less. Also, in a competitive bid Bombardier would have reduced its price as well. This is a huge mistake by Quebec and the mafialand known as Montreal. CPP and the Teachers could have made a better offer however, because they're from dirty Toronto (Quebec mentality) they are not welcomed.

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim

Great news on the Caisse/transit partnership. This is exactly what Montreal's transit system needed, a real good kick from a reliable and loaded local investor. La Caisse is already investing in transit in Vancouver and in Europe. Why not here?

Many other companies do this as well, not only the Caisse. We will get ripped off in this deal.

[WhipperSnapper]

My experience in Toronto is the driver will usually start accelerating once everyone has passed the white line unless there's a disabled person. The acceleration is gradual.

Our buses are both low floor and conventional with a couple steps in between. They can seriously injure people by ramming the gas pedal.

[Nouvellecosse]

In Halifax the drivers seem to be required to wait for everyone to be seated but some will make an exception if you look young and healthy. I remember about a decade ago there was a big scandal where and old person fell and broke their hip after the bus started moving before they were seated and I think they implemented the rule after that.

But obviously they have to use their discretion anyway since there are so many times when the bus is standing room only.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by telyou

You don't get it do you. Sole sourcing billion dollar projects without a competitive bidding process will always have the government spend more money then it needs too. This is the same mistake STM and TTC did by just handing out Bombardier the contracts even though it was known that other companies can do it for much less. Also, in a competitive bid Bombardier would have reduced its price as well. This is a huge mistake by Quebec and the mafialand known as Montreal. CPP and the Teachers could have made a better offer however, because they're from dirty Toronto (Quebec mentality) they are not welcomed.



Many other companies do this as well, not only the Caisse. We will get ripped off in this deal.

Ripped off ?

La Caisse belongs to everybody. The RRQ is managed by the Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec. It's a win-win-win situation.

They have $5B to invest. La Caisse is worth $214B+ ,

[matt602]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

In your city, how long do bus drivers wait for passengers to settle in? In Kingston, bus drivers are notoriously lead footed, as soon as everyone's paid their fare, the driver drives off at full speed, leaving the passengers scrambling to get to their seats as the bus speeds up. In Ottawa, bus drivers generally wait for people to sit before driving off, or at least they wait until people are on their way to their seats.

I'm divided on which approach is better. Ottawa's is a lot better for passenger comfort, but Kingston's way of doing things leads to much faster trips especially on local routes that stop a lot.

In Hamilton it depends on the route, time of the day and attitude of the bus driver. There is no official policy requiring them to wait for passengers to sit down but nice drivers will wait for a disabled person or someone with a stroller to get situated before they hammer the gas. If it's rush hour on one of the busy routes though, get ready to get thrown around. The Barton bus is horrible for it since it makes very frequent stops along the whole route and the buses constantly bunch up and fall out of schedule anyway.

[SkahHigh]

Originally Posted by telyou

You don't get it do you. Sole sourcing billion dollar projects without a competitive bidding process will always have the government spend more money then it needs too. This is the same mistake STM and TTC did by just handing out Bombardier the contracts even though it was known that other companies can do it for much less. Also, in a competitive bid Bombardier would have reduced its price as well. This is a huge mistake by Quebec and the mafialand known as Montreal. CPP and the Teachers could have made a better offer however, because they're from dirty Toronto (Quebec mentality) they are not welcomed.

Many other companies do this as well, not only the Caisse. We will get ripped off in this deal.

I do "get it". What you don't seem to know is that Caisse has done the same elsewhere (notably the modernization of two terminals at Heathrow and the Canada Line), so it has lots of experience in investing for infrastructure. Maybe you have a better solution for building new transit systems in this province? Not everything is about the mafia you know...

[MalcolmTucker]

Well, let Caisse bid for building them along with other P3 groups so the province pays the least amount possible.

[ssiguy]

Those are interesting proposals for Calgary's CTrain downtown but I thought the first priority was a downtown tunnel under Stephen Ave to get the current lines off the downtown streets?

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Those are interesting proposals for Calgary's CTrain downtown but I thought the first priority was a downtown tunnel under Stephen Ave to get the current lines off the downtown streets?

^ to get one of the current lines off the street. The other will remain at street level. The article is about the third line.

It really depends. I bet the two tunnels will be done simultaneously once the province commits to the infrastructure fund post 2017 (when the current fund is done).

[Taeolas]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

In your city, how long do bus drivers wait for passengers to settle in? In Kingston, bus drivers are notoriously lead footed, as soon as everyone's paid their fare, the driver drives off at full speed, leaving the passengers scrambling to get to their seats as the bus speeds up. In Ottawa, bus drivers generally wait for people to sit before driving off, or at least they wait until people are on their way to their seats.

In Freddy, they seem to usually wait until you're at your seat and are sitting or about to sit down. It can depend on the driver too, but usually they don't start moving again until everyone's sitting (rarely do the buses have standing room only).

As for how they accelerate, it depends on the driver and how the schedule is. If they're on time, most will speed up slowly. If they're running behind, it can be a fast speed up to try and make up time.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Well, let Caisse bid for building them along with other P3 groups so the province pays the least amount possible.

maybe because no other pension funds wants to invest in this transit project.

[1overcosc]

Huh. So Kingston Transit is the outlier here. A bit reassuring.

Bus drivers here seem a little obsessed with being fast. Aside from the not waiting for people to sit thing, they also have a nasty (for the city's treasury!) tendency to, if someone's taking a while to get out their coins or card, shooing them away from the farebox to let someone else pay, effectively giving them a free ride.

[GreaterMontréal]

Coderre said ''il va y avoir un tracé au centre-ville''. Nice !

[SteelTown]

An interesting piece of information came out of Hamilton City Council today. Hamilton's City Manager said Metrolinx told him that the GO Transit Electrification will be part of the first phase funding. Therefore the rest will have to fight for funding if there's still any money leftover, such as Hamilton's LRT funding.

Metrolinx and Hamilton will meet on Friday to discuss further.

Also on February 6 Metrolinx will release a 10 year transit plan.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

maybe because no other pension funds wants to invest in this transit project.

then lets see that in the form of a bid. If Caisse is the only one who bids, fine. You just can't come out and sole source this type of thing. The Heathrow terminal and Canada line were both competitively bid before being award, as are most P3s.

GO RER being from the new funding push has always been known. There will still be a good chunk of cash leftover after it though, probably around $6 billion to split around the GTA. I expect the province to fund the Hurontario LRT and the DRL if it is determined that it is required (at this point it is looking like it will be ruled unneeded for another 15 years or so, putting off the funding decision). After that, it will be interesting to see what comes from it. I doubt the province will play game with Hamiltons decision to force the province to pay 100% of it however, they will likely be looking for municipal contributions.

My hopeful list for what goes ahead with the cash:

GO RER
DRL phase 1
Yonge extension to Steeles
Hurontario LRT
Hamilton LRT


The rest of the stuff (primarily BRTs) can wait a little while. The elimination of the full yonge extension and the full DRL along with the BRT projects should cut the funding requirements to fit, especially if you can get some municipal contributions.

[Prometheus]

Photo by alexcostin: https://www.flickr.com/photos/alexcostinphotography/15612716326/in/photostream/

[YoungRepublic]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

GO RER being from the new funding push has always been known. There will still be a good chunk of cash leftover after it though, probably around $6 billion to split around the GTA. I expect the province to fund the Hurontario LRT and the DRL if it is determined that it is required (at this point it is looking like it will be ruled unneeded for another 15 years or so, putting off the funding decision). After that, it will be interesting to see what comes from it.

wait, whet?
I though we prioritized the DRL as a critical piece of near-future transit expansion. Did Tory's SmartTrack kill that? I feel like the DRL's momentum as a top priority kind of died when SmartTrack was proposed. Do you know when we will get an update and a clearer picture of the province's plan for transit expansion in the GTHA? I figured the Liberals would absorb SmartTrack into their GO RER plan and keep the DRL, but I guess not.