Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't make a difference anyway and you're right that this person is probably just happy with the status quo and wouldn't want to change it. I was just thinking if their issue is that Ottawa's too small compared to Toronto for this, than comparing the situation to Toronto (which is directly comparable) would be a more convincing argument than capacity, etc.

Such people are truly ignorant. If you're a driver, why the heck would you not support public transit? The transit strike in December 2008, is all you need, to know what would happen if there was no public transit or we didn't make investments as the city grew.

I have grown up all over the world. And my biggest complaint against Toronto is that the city, province and feds never invested enough to keep up with the growth of the city. And they still aren't. The $50 billion that the GTA will spend will barely make a dent in transit modeshare according to Metrolinx's own numbers. Thanks to the GTA absorbing a million more residents in the next decade. A huge part of why the GTA is behind is because of the GTA mentality. Toronto has ridiculously low taxes for a major city. Yet, they won't accept any tax increases to pony up for transit construction. So you get idiotic fights, such as over the Scarborough subway, where people act like a slightly inefficient use of money is an existential threat to transit....precisely because they have chosen to limit the funds available.

Ottawa has an opportunity here to truly craft a livable city by building a transit system that keeps up with growth. It's amazing to me for example, that we'll go from not having rail transit to 70% of Ottawa residents being within 5 km of rail transit (a 20 min ride on a feeder bus) in 15 years. That's transformative. And good on Ottawa residents for both fighting for rail and accepting the tax increases to pay for it.

My next hope is that we can get the discussion going on boosting Confederation Line off-peak frequencies. And hopefully sometime next decade we can talk about double tracking and electrifying the Trillium Line, along with discussing what to do about other corridors, like Carling for example.

[mykl]

^^ Truenorth00 for mayor, please

[kevinbottawa]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Such people are truly ignorant. If you're a driver, why the heck would you not support public transit? The transit strike in December 2008, is all you need, to know what would happen if there was no public transit or we didn't make investments as the city grew.

I have grown up all over the world. And my biggest complaint against Toronto is that the city, province and feds never invested enough to keep up with the growth of the city. And they still aren't. The $50 billion that the GTA will spend will barely make a dent in transit modeshare according to Metrolinx's own numbers. Thanks to the GTA absorbing a million more residents in the next decade. A huge part of why the GTA is behind is because of the GTA mentality. Toronto has ridiculously low taxes for a major city. Yet, they won't accept any tax increases to pony up for transit construction. So you get idiotic fights, such as over the Scarborough subway, where people act like a slightly inefficient use of money is an existential threat to transit....precisely because they have chosen to limit the funds available.

Ottawa has an opportunity here to truly craft a livable city by building a transit system that keeps up with growth. It's amazing to me for example, that we'll go from not having rail transit to 70% of Ottawa residents being within 5 km of rail transit (a 20 min ride on a feeder bus) in 15 years. That's transformative. And good on Ottawa residents for both fighting for rail and accepting the tax increases to pay for it.

My next hope is that we can get the discussion going on boosting Confederation Line off-peak frequencies. And hopefully sometime next decade we can talk about double tracking and electrifying the Trillium Line, along with discussing what to do about other corridors, like Carling for example.

My wife and I were in Toronto for Thanksgiving. Driving between our parent's houses in Scarborough and Mississauga, we noted how hard it would be to get Torontonians to incorporate transit into their lifestyle compared to Ottawa. The culture is so car centric and it's so harder to get across such a vast region on transit, especially with a family. It used to take me 2.5 hours to get from my house in Mississauga to my university campus at Lawrence and Bayview.

With phases 1 and 2 of the LRT plan there's a real opportunity for Ottawa to embrace transit in a way that larger cities like Toronto haven't and to make it livable as you said.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Such people are truly ignorant. If you're a driver, why the heck would you not support public transit? The transit strike in December 2008, is all you need, to know what would happen if there was no public transit or we didn't make investments as the city grew.

I have grown up all over the world. And my biggest complaint against Toronto is that the city, province and feds never invested enough to keep up with the growth of the city. And they still aren't. The $50 billion that the GTA will spend will barely make a dent in transit modeshare according to Metrolinx's own numbers. Thanks to the GTA absorbing a million more residents in the next decade. A huge part of why the GTA is behind is because of the GTA mentality. Toronto has ridiculously low taxes for a major city. Yet, they won't accept any tax increases to pony up for transit construction. So you get idiotic fights, such as over the Scarborough subway, where people act like a slightly inefficient use of money is an existential threat to transit....precisely because they have chosen to limit the funds available.

Ottawa has an opportunity here to truly craft a livable city by building a transit system that keeps up with growth. It's amazing to me for example, that we'll go from not having rail transit to 70% of Ottawa residents being within 5 km of rail transit (a 20 min ride on a feeder bus) in 15 years. That's transformative. And good on Ottawa residents for both fighting for rail and accepting the tax increases to pay for it.

My next hope is that we can get the discussion going on boosting Confederation Line off-peak frequencies. And hopefully sometime next decade we can talk about double tracking and electrifying the Trillium Line, along with discussing what to do about other corridors, like Carling for example.

They're already pretty high... they're comparable to or better than, the frequencies of the Montreal metro (weekend midday frequencies in Montreal are 7-8 minutes; Confederation Line will be 5 minutes).

[Kitchissippi]

I was watching this video on the future Canberra Metro (not really a "metro" more like a tram) and it's amusing how Ottawa is mentioned as the first example of "great capitals of the world" Their line is similar in length and number of stations to ours but falls short of going through the centre go the city. Canberra seems far more sprawly and car-centric than Ottawa, it will be interesting to see how this project goes for them. After looking at their website, I will never complain about the quality of updates on ours.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

And hopefully sometime next decade we can talk about double tracking and electrifying the Trillium Line, along with discussing what to do about other corridors, like Carling for example.

Rather than double track the trilium line, I would look at building a new north/ south corridor that travels directly downtown (without a connection).

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Rather than double track the trilium line, I would look at building a new north/ south corridor that travels directly downtown (without a connection).

You mean an LRT along the the Southeast leg of the transitway?

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

You mean an LRT along the the Southeast leg of the transitway?

No. The southeastern transitway doesn't go downtown either. I am talking about a new route. Some here call it a Bank Street route, but I don't think it has to be limited to Bank St (Bank street would be quite expensive to follow).

Elgin would be one interesting option. The timing probably won't work, but they are digging it up anyway so they could just dig a little deeper to put in the tunnel. It could then follow the canal to Lansdowne (once again mostly cut and cover). You could then bore a tunnel under the canal, Old Ottawa South (roughly following Riverdale Ave) and the Rideau River to Billings Bridge. It could then follow the southeastern transitway south of there (the Baseline BRT would use the transitway north of Billings Bridge).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

it's amusing how Ottawa is mentioned as the first example of "great capitals of the world" .

People in Canberra tend to see Ottawa and Washington (and to a lesser degree Brasilia) as "peer" cities. For pretty obvious reaons.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Their line is similar in length and number of stations to ours but falls short of going through the centre go the city. ..

Which is pretty good when you consider Canberra is about one third the size of Ottawa(-Gatineau). Less than half a million people.

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Canberra seems far more sprawly and car-centric than Ottawa, it will be interesting to see how this project goes for them..

Indeed it is. Think of Alta Vista-type neighbourhoods starting to dominate two or three blocks from Parliament Hill. That's what most of Canberra is like.

[FFX-ME]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I was watching this video on the future Canberra Metro (not really a "metro" more like a tram) and it's amusing how Ottawa is mentioned as the first example of "great capitals of the world" Their line is similar in length and number of stations to ours but falls short of going through the centre go the city. Canberra seems far more sprawly and car-centric than Ottawa, it will be interesting to see how this project goes for them. After looking at their website, I will never complain about the quality of updates on ours.

OMG! Looking at the map, the road network makes absolutely no sense, squiggling everywhere.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

OMG! Looking at the map, the road network makes absolutely no sense, squiggling everywhere.

One thing though is contrary to what has been mentioned, the line does go to what is for all intents and purposes Canberra's downtown/CBD.

Canberra actually has dual central districts, located on opposite sides of the lake. I'd say they are about 2 km apart, separated by a bridge and short ceremonial boulevards that serve as approach roads for the bridge.

To the north is the downtown CBD district which is where you find the typical downtown stuff for a city: shops, restaurants, private sector offices, the university, etc. This is where the tram or LRT line with terminate. IIRC the main terminus for bus lines that go across the city is there as well.

To the south of there and just across the lake is kind of a government precinct with the parliament buildings at the centre, and other government stuff around it like the Supreme Court, etc. This area is similar in feel to the vicinity of the National Mall district in Washington DC.

The new line won't go there in its phase one but phase two will run right through it.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by roger1818

No. The southeastern transitway doesn't go downtown either. I am talking about a new route. Some here call it a Bank Street route, but I don't think it has to be limited to Bank St (Bank street would be quite expensive to follow).

Elgin would be one interesting option. The timing probably won't work, but they are digging it up anyway so they could just dig a little deeper to put in the tunnel. It could then follow the canal to Lansdowne (once again mostly cut and cover). You could then bore a tunnel under the canal, Old Ottawa South (roughly following Riverdale Ave) and the Rideau River to Billings Bridge. It could then follow the southeastern transitway south of there (the Baseline BRT would use the transitway north of Billings Bridge).

What about Bank to where it meets the SW transitway? Would that appease you? BTW, making the SW transitway a leg of the LRT would mean it could go downtown.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

What about Bank to where it meets the SW transitway? Would that appease you?

I am not sure I understand the question. No appeasing needed.

BTW, making the SW transitway a leg of the LRT would mean it could go downtown.

As discussed before, the problem is Hurdman station isn't aligned for that to work well. They would have to either move Hurdmand station, skip Hurdmand station, have a second Hurdmand station (creating a decision point for those wanting to go downtown) or end at Hurdman station. In the end, it will probably be kept as a transitway.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I am not sure I understand the question. No appeasing needed.

As discussed before, the problem is Hurdman station isn't aligned for that to work well. They would have to either move Hurdmand station, skip Hurdmand station, have a second Hurdmand station (creating a decision point for those wanting to go downtown) or end at Hurdman station. In the end, it will probably be kept as a transitway.

Maybe Hurdmand is on the other leg.

I actually think that within the next 20 years, the LRT will run on all current transitways.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I actually think that within the next 20 years, the LRT will run on all current transitways.

Maybe. It isn't in the transportation master plan, but that could change.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

My wife and I were in Toronto for Thanksgiving. Driving between our parent's houses in Scarborough and Mississauga, we noted how hard it would be to get Torontonians to incorporate transit into their lifestyle compared to Ottawa. The culture is so car centric and it's so harder to get across such a vast region on transit, especially with a family. It used to take me 2.5 hours to get from my house in Mississauga to my university campus at Lawrence and Bayview.

With phases 1 and 2 of the LRT plan there's a real opportunity for Ottawa to embrace transit in a way that larger cities like Toronto haven't and to make it livable as you said.

This is a very interesting angle that we rarely think about.

For all its density (the densest city and CMA in Canada and one of the densest in Canada), most of Toronto is very auto-oriented. It's even true of most of the 416 except for the innermost part of the city.

Towers in the park and single-family homes, strip malls and wide boulevards...

Yes those wide boulevards do have decent transit frequency so you're not completely marooned without a car but holy cow you really do need a car for life to be pleasant in those areas.

It's also probably a question of scale. Toronto was built a certain way due to era it grew up in, and that built form just kept being replicated over and over. There are efforts all over the city to retrofit, urbanize and humanize these areas but it's a massive task.

Ottawa (and most other cities) also has huge swathes that are like this but the smaller size of the city makes things more manageable.

All of which to say I do share your hope for Ottawa - if it wants to make the shift city-wide it might actually have an easier time of it than Toronto.

[acottawa]

While I would agree many of the suburbs of Toronto are quite car-oriented, at least there is a fair amount of density to support tranist and most of the city's key attractions are on mass transit lines.

Ottawa has the problem of hardly any attractions being near mass transit and hardly any density (detached homes start at about Nepean Street and never really stop).

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Ottawa has the problem of hardly any attractions being near mass transit and hardly any density (detached homes start at about Nepean Street and never really stop).

That's a matter of perspective. Phoenix is a much larger city than Ottawa, but having been there it makes Ottawa look like Europe in comparison. There was like a single two block stretch near my hotel that could remotely be considered like Bank or Elgin, everything else made even Kanata look dense. I'd disagree on the attractions as well, you have most major downtown attractions within 500m of one of the two otrain lines, a stadium, hintonburg, Little Italy, St Laurent mall, etc.

[lrt's friend]

We need to start building rapid transit along or under our major commercial streets instead of between things as has been the case in the past. This applies whether in the city centre or in the suburbs. As we plan our suburban arterials, we should make allowances for rapid transit and in centretown, we need to go underground and specifically underground where the stores, offices and restaurants are located. A new north-south route needs to go under Bank Street so that transit supports Bank Street businesses and further densification. We have all kinds of plans for Bank Street but without high quality transit, it will never reach its potential. Likewise applies to the Rideau/Montreal Road and Carling corridors. In the east end, we will need a balancing branch that should follow Innes Road rather than a rather remote cross country route currently reserved.