[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Just as some of the tenured profs are very out of touch with reality, the university administration here is equally out of touch with fiscal reality. The unis have not been forced to justify their spending by govt, hence their ability to pay retired Presidents $400K salaries for years after they left the building, and continuing to build ever more lavish palaces on campus. The cost of tuition has spiraled out of control as they download more and more of the runaway costs onto students.

Suffice to say that I actually agree with you, to some degree. There is a problem with salaries (though it tends to be greatly exaggerated) and capital costs for new construction and other new projects are, IMO, above and beyond what is actually necessary.

Having said that, this city and province still get more than enough out of the post-secondary presence to make it worthwhile, whether we're talking demographically, culturally, or economically. And it's worth nothing as well that funding to many of our universities is not increasing at the pace of enrollment increases, and at other universities is actually shrinking. The universities don't have an unlimited geyser of public cash, and they know it, even if their spending decisions seem to indicate otherwise.

[IanWatson]

I did my undergrad at Queen's University in Ontario and the problem of building shiny new buildings was the same, if not worse, there. I'm talking like $230 million new student centre.

On the surface you can see why it happens. People donating money to a school want to see its impact. The school can point to a shiny new building and say, "Thanks for your $10 mil! Look how much good you've done." It's not quite as sexy to say, "Thanks for your $10 mil! You've covered our snow removal budget for the next five years."

There's also the motivation to compete with other schools. Shiny new buildings show well during campus tours. Unfortunately, reviewing the school's financial sustainability isn't a key stop on the tour.

So this is not a problem constrained to NS. How do we fix it? I don't really know...

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by IanWatson

I did my undergrad at Queen's University in Ontario and the problem of building shiny new buildings was the same, if not worse, there. I'm talking like $500 million new student centre.

On the surface you can see why it happens. People donating money to a school want to see its impact. The school can point to a shiny new building and say, "Thanks for your $10 mil! Look how much good you've done." It's not quite as sexy to say, "Thanks for your $10 mil! You've covered our snow removal budget for the next five years."

There's also the motivation to compete with other schools. Shiny new buildings show well during campus tours. Unfortunately, reviewing the school's financial sustainability isn't a key stop on the tour.

So this is not a problem constrained to NS. How do we fix it? I don't really know...

My alma mater's newest no-expense-spared megaproject.

Is it awesome? Yes.

Did it cost $112 million? Also yes.

Does its usefulness to students and impact upon the university merit that expense? Well...I honestly don't know.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Thanks guys, it's as I suspected in that it's endemic to university systems in general and not some specific blight on NS universities that would reasonably bring on a comment that the university system in this province needs to be blown up, universities need to be closed down, etc etc.

As for tuition being overpriced: yes, it's expensive to attend university but seriously try to price up a similar education in the US and you will find Canadian universities to be a bargain - yes, subsidized by our tax dollars but that's the price of attainable education for all. Said education pays back society far more than the face-value dollar amount invested, you can be sure.

And I question the attitude that profs are feeding students a bunch of drivel that they accept without question. You are seriously underestimating the intelligence of students if you actually believe that. The function of university is to teach you to think, not to feed you information that you blindly accept - that hasn't changed since my university days.

Does the system need improvement? I think so. Is it FUBAR? No.

Gawd, some of the rhetoric I read here just has me shaking my head sometimes...

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

My alma mater's newest no-expense-spared megaproject.

Is it awesome? Yes.

Did it cost $112 million? Also yes.

Does its usefulness to students and impact upon the university merit that expense? Well...I honestly don't know.

The interior vibe actually reminds me a lot of the Halifax Central Library...

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Thanks guys, it's as I suspected in that it's endemic to university systems in general and not some specific blight on NS universities that would reasonably bring on a comment that the university system in this province needs to be blown up, universities need to be closed down, etc etc.

As for tuition being overpriced: yes, it's expensive to attend university but seriously try to price up a similar education in the US and you will find Canadian universities to be a bargain - yes, subsidized by our tax dollars but that's the price of attainable education for all. Said education pays back society far more than the face-value dollar amount invested, you can be sure.

And I question the attitude that profs are feeding students a bunch of drivel that they accept without question. You are seriously underestimating the intelligence of students if you actually believe that. The function of university is to teach you to think, not to feed you information that you blindly accept - that hasn't changed since my university days.

Does the system need improvement? I think so. Is it FUBAR? No.

Gawd, some of the rhetoric I read here just has me shaking my head sometimes...

As is often the case, you are dead wrong.

The problem identified is indeed endemic to most universities in North America these days. Many articles have been written about it. Yet nobody has taken on the university leaders to fix it. The unis in the USA that are changing big money are essentially privately run, so there is no motivation for govts to get involved. But in Canada taxpayers foot the bill for over half of the cost, so one has to wonder why no political leader has hit the mule upside the head with a 2x4. The reason is that university governance has not changed in over a century. They are ostensibly "private" institutions as well in most instances, with a Board of governors and senate that has only token representation from govt and which does little to stop the out of control administration. They are tremendously resistant to change - since some very cushy jobs are at stake - and entitled faculty unions only add to that problem.

The only way to bring them into line is to force them into becoming part of the public education system. Blow up the university Senates, blow up their Boards of Governors, and pass legislation making them an agency of govt, subject to govt controls. Inflation over the last 40 years has been a bit over 300%. The inflation rate for university tuition is about 3 times that depending on the institution.

We indeed have a problem.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

As is often the case, you are dead wrong.

The problem identified is indeed endemic to most universities in North America these days. Many articles have been written about it. Yet nobody has taken on the university leaders to fix it. The unis in the USA that are changing big money are essentially privately run, so there is no motivation for govts to get involved. But in Canada taxpayers foot the bill for over half of the cost, so one has to wonder why no political leader has hit the mule upside the head with a 2x4. The reason is that university governance has not changed in over a century. They are ostensibly "private" institutions as well in most instances, with a Board of governors and senate that has only token representation from govt and which does little to stop the out of control administration. They are tremendously resistant to change - since some very cushy jobs are at stake - and entitled faculty unions only add to that problem.

The only way to bring them into line is to force them into becoming part of the public education system. Blow up the university Senates, blow up their Boards of Governors, and pass legislation making them an agency of govt, subject to govt controls. Inflation over the last 40 years has been a bit over 300%. The inflation rate for university tuition is about 3 times that depending on the institution.

We indeed have a problem.

As is often the case, you resort to personal insults rather than address the questions I posed in my previous posts. Then you state 'facts' in a dramatic fashion with no sources to back them up.

As usual, I have little to no interest in reading what you have to say.

Have a nice day, KP.

[RangerNS]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

You and MonctonRad both said that there are too many profs and too many programs of study. MR said there should be no more than four or five universities in the province, which, ipso facto, means some would have to close.

Yes and no.

In the last 5 years Dalhousie has taken over the Agriculture College, and NSCAD was under threat of... more aggressive measures taken if they didn't fix themselves (everyone knew this to mean Dal or SMU would take over admin). Not quite a generation ago, Dal took over TUNS, too.

Not quite "closed", in the sense of "able to have fewer students", but it does seem that Dal is the meta-NS university to join up actually different basic programs. Université Sainte-Anne should be scared, as should the Gaelic College (CBU may be safe, no one is fooled that its not a glorified higher school).

Outside this umbrella of the Dalhousie letterhead taking over everything, there is unquestionably shared services going on, in purchasing, in IT systems, in the library systems, etc.

Letting Dal take over the likes of NSCAD and the AC who couldn't efficent themselves out of a paper bag makes sense; having Dal and SMU get the same shared rate with Amazon makes sense. But there is some upper limit to the effective size of, say, an English department; forcing Dal and SMU to share a dean wouldn't make any sense.

[teddifax]

Shouldn't this ongoing discussion be elsewhere, not on this portion of the Forum? It is not related to the Nova Centre.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Oh Keith, you can be so dramatic sometimes...

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Gawd, some of the rhetoric I read here just has me shaking my head sometimes...

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

As is often the case, you resort to personal insults rather than address the questions I posed in my previous posts.

Seems to me you can dish it out, but don't like to take it.

[TheGreenBastard]

Hey kids it's nap time, go to the corner with your juice and lay down.




But in all seriousness this has nothing to do with the Nova Centre.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Seems to me you can dish it out, but don't like to take it.

Likewise, my friend. And again, never actually providing any factual content to deal with challenges to your assertions.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by TheGreenBastard

Hey kids it's nap time, go to the corner with your juice and lay down.




But in all seriousness this has nothing to do with the Nova Centre.

Agreed. Enough of this nonsense.

I apologize for becoming involved in it.

Yeesh.

[hoser111]

Originally Posted by TheGreenBastard

I think they're going with this design

How about back on topic..... I know we already have a Radisson suites here, but anyone else think the Radisson Hotel Admiral Toronto Harbour front has the same vibe? Can't help but wonder if this is what's reaaaaally driving the requested changes. Aimlessly pondering....

https://exp.cdn-hotels.com/hotels/1000000/10000/7400/7352/7352_89_z.jpg

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by hoser111

How about back on topic..... I know we already have a Radisson suites here, but anyone else think the Radisson Hotel Admiral Toronto Harbour front has the same vibe? Can't help but wonder if this is what's reaaaaally driving the requested changes. Aimlessly pondering....

https://exp.cdn-hotels.com/hotels/1000000/10000/7400/7352/7352_89_z.jpg

Good point..they do look very similar!

[q12]

Originally Posted by hoser111

How about back on topic..... I know we already have a Radisson suites here, but anyone else think the Radisson Hotel Admiral Toronto Harbour front has the same vibe? Can't help but wonder if this is what's reaaaaally driving the requested changes. Aimlessly pondering....

https://exp.cdn-hotels.com/hotels/1000000/10000/7400/7352/7352_89_z.jpg

The Radisson in Halifax is now a DoubleTree by Hilton.

[Jonovision]

20160721_154344 by Jonovision23, on Flickr

20160721_154213 by Jonovision23, on Flickr

[Jonovision]

20160724_071156 by Jonovision23, on Flickr

[RoshanMcG]

[fenwick16]

The Nova Centre looks very impressive and unique from this perspective. Thank you for posting the picture RoshanMcG.