[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

In the course of my job, I was doing some photography for for one of the universities in town. The idea was to get some city imagery from Citadel Hill, but I was instructed to shoot so as not to include the Nova Centre, because a lot of the profs hate it on political and/or aesthetic grounds.

They'd literally like to pretend it doesn't exist, and I had to wonder how long it'll take some people to just accept that it's there, like it or not.

I think once they start hosting events there (especially events geared at locals, not out-of-town conventioneers) attitudes might start to change. To be honest, the majority of people I know who have an opinion on the Nova Centre are against it and the commonly-agreed-upon (though not necessarily accurate) narrative tends to be:

- The Nova Centre is a huge violation of planning rules
- The Nova Centre is the result of government subsidizing a private developer, basically just giving away our tax dollars to make some obscenely rich person even richer
- Convention centres are a huge waste of money, and we don't need a new one
- The Nova Centre is destroying the character of Argyle Street/Downtown
- It is "corporate" and "for the wealthy fat cats" and is therefore bad
- It had 0 support outside of the wealthy fat cat circle and is being imposed on us anyway

(I don't necessarily agree with any of these statements but to many people I know, most of these are considered basic facts)

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

In the course of my job, I was doing some photography for for one of the universities in town. The idea was to get some city imagery from Citadel Hill, but I was instructed to shoot so as not to include the Nova Centre, because a lot of the profs hate it on political and/or aesthetic grounds.

They'd literally like to pretend it doesn't exist, and I had to wonder how long it'll take some people to just accept that it's there, like it or not.

That is just sad in general terms, and scary in the sense of supposedly well-educated people being so closed-minded and unable to see the benefit of such a facility. It also makes one wonder what they teach the impressionable minds in their classes. The university system in this province needs to be blown up and rebuilt and this just adds to that belief for me.

[scryer]

I think once they start hosting events there (especially events geared at locals, not out-of-town conventioneers) attitudes might start to change.

Even events geared towards out-of-town or international communities will greatly benefit, at least, Halifax's hospitality industry. A convention centre that can get some serious business in winter will have its nearby hotels operating like they are in the middle of their high season. And seeing as how this is a significant piece of convention space in the Atlantic provinces; Halifax could really attract some strong business if it's done right .

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Hali87

To be honest, the majority of people I know who have an opinion on the Nova Centre are against it and the commonly-agreed-upon (though not necessarily accurate) narrative tends to be:

- The Nova Centre is a huge violation of planning rules
- The Nova Centre is the result of government subsidizing a private developer, basically just giving away our tax dollars to make some obscenely rich person even richer
- Convention centres are a huge waste of money, and we don't need a new one
- The Nova Centre is destroying the character of Argyle Street/Downtown
- It is "corporate" and "for the wealthy fat cats" and is therefore bad
- It had 0 support outside of the wealthy fat cat circle and is being imposed on us anyway

There is some validity to some of these perspectives (or to some less sensationalist facts that give rise to these beliefs). I don't personally think it represents a great fiscal investment by the government, and I'm still undecided (though optimistic) as to how it will integrate into the area around it.

But it's there, and it's part of the city now, and no amount of whingeing or pointing our cameras in the other direction will change that.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

In the course of my job, I was doing some photography for for one of the universities in town. The idea was to get some city imagery from Citadel Hill, but I was instructed to shoot so as not to include the Nova Centre, because a lot of the profs hate it on political and/or aesthetic grounds.

They'd literally like to pretend it doesn't exist, and I had to wonder how long it'll take some people to just accept that it's there, like it or not.

Or maybe a huge, half-built structure just doesn't look good in 'beauty shots'? Were those reasons actually verbalized to you or was it just idle gossip? If I were paying somebody to get some attractive shots of the downtown to use for advertising or promotion (I don't know what the purpose of your shots were), I wouldn't really want a prominent half-built structure to have centre stage in the shots. It's really not a thing of beauty at the moment.

I'm still on the fence about the whole project, and I suspect that I will always have a relatively equal like/dislike sentiment about it even years after it's done. But like it or not, we're stuck with it for the next half century at least.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

That is just sad in general terms, and scary in the sense of supposedly well-educated people being so closed-minded and unable to see the benefit of such a facility. It also makes one wonder what they teach the impressionable minds in their classes. The university system in this province needs to be blown up and rebuilt and this just adds to that belief for me.

The university system needs to be blown up and rebuilt? And who's going to pay for it?

Oh Keith, you can be so dramatic sometimes...

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

The university system needs to be blown up and rebuilt? And who's going to pay for it?

Oh Keith, you can be so dramatic sometimes...

There are so many opportunities for savings it would easily pay for itself and still return a dividend back to the province.

We have too many universities, too many overpaid Presidents and administrators, too much expensive infrastructure, and too many unproductive 6-figure salary tenured profs who do not care one little bit about the education of their students.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

There are so many opportunities for savings it would easily pay for itself and still return a dividend back to the province.

We have too many universities, too many overpaid Presidents and administrators, too much expensive infrastructure, and too many unproductive 6-figure salary tenured profs who do not care one little bit about the education of their students.

And too many of these tenured professors (especially in political science, women's studies and sociology) have wingnut social agendas that they feel they can foist on the malleable psyches of our children in a vain attempt to mold societal norms to fit their own beliefs.

Keith is right. There should be no more than four (maybe five) universities in Nova Scotia, including one overarching "University of Halifax". The administration should be gutted and whole programs of study eliminated. Some programs have no value to society (aside from raising whole new generations of agitators) and very few people would notice if they were eliminated.

Millions of dollars would be saved........

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

And too many of these tenured professors (especially in political science, women's studies and sociology) have wingnut social agendas that they feel they can foist on the malleable psyches of our children in a vain attempt to mold societal norms to fit their own beliefs.

Keith is right. There should be no more than four (maybe five) universities in Nova Scotia, including one overarching "University of Halifax". The administration should be gutted and whole programs of study eliminated. Some programs have no value to society (aside from raising whole new generations of agitators) and very few people would notice if they were eliminated.

Millions of dollars would be saved........

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Or maybe a huge, half-built structure just doesn't look good in 'beauty shots'? Were those reasons actually verbalized to you or was it just idle gossip? If I were paying somebody to get some attractive shots of the downtown to use for advertising or promotion (I don't know what the purpose of your shots were), I wouldn't really want a prominent half-built structure to have centre stage in the shots. It's really not a thing of beauty at the moment.

No, it was very clearly like "if you're going to shoot from the hill, don't include the Nova Centre because it's an urban-planning disaster." (Or something like that.) By that standard, the Cogswell should be cropped out of all photography of the city, now and forever.

I don't think "wingnuts" had anything to do with it though, Monctonrad and Keith. Shutting down the universities to save money would not be a wise decision. I'd certainly be a lot less interested in living in a Nova Scotia without the wealth generated by the universities: income and other taxes derived from students/staff/faculty; incubation for new enterprises in business, medicine, arts, science and more; and a hell of a lot of cultural vitality that otherwise wouldn't exist.

Not to mention the people. The students and faculties of those schools bring a lot of interesting, creative, intelligent people to this city and province. Maybe you guys think losing a few eggheads is no big deal, but there's a reason a city of 400,000 punches so far above its weight in so many ways. The relative size and vitality of our educational institutions is a big part of that.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I don't think "wingnuts" had anything to do with it though, Monctonrad and Keith. Shutting down the universities to save money would not be a wise decision. I'd certainly be a lot less interested in living in a Nova Scotia without the wealth generated by the universities: income and other taxes derived from students/staff/faculty; incubation for new enterprises in business, medicine, arts, science and more; and a hell of a lot of cultural vitality that otherwise wouldn't exist.

Not to mention the people. The students and faculties of those schools bring a lot of interesting, creative, intelligent people to this city and province. Maybe you guys think losing a few eggheads is no big deal, but there's a reason a city of 400,000 punches so far above its weight in so many ways. The relative size and vitality of our educational institutions is a big part of that.

Nobody is suggesting that the universities be shut down. But since you and me and every other NS taxpayer is on the hook for 60 cents of every dollar the universities spend, we should be demanding that they stop wasting our money.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

No, it was very clearly like "if you're going to shoot from the hill, don't include the Nova Centre because it's an urban-planning disaster." (Or something like that.) By that standard, the Cogswell should be cropped out of all photography of the city, now and forever.

It seems juvenile to me. Whether you were for or against it, the buildings are there, and they will most likely continue to be there for a long time.

The structure of the university system is a big issue to tackle but I will say that a lot of profs say stuff that's shockingly entitled and out of touch with most people, including students. There are a few South Ender profs who are very privileged and don't want the city to evolve if they think it might have any tiny downsides for them, even if others must pay a huge cost. A few of the BANANAs are profs at Dal and SMU.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

No, it was very clearly like "if you're going to shoot from the hill, don't include the Nova Centre because it's an urban-planning disaster." (Or something like that.) By that standard, the Cogswell should be cropped out of all photography of the city, now and forever.

I don't think "wingnuts" had anything to do with it though, Monctonrad and Keith. Shutting down the universities to save money would not be a wise decision. I'd certainly be a lot less interested in living in a Nova Scotia without the wealth generated by the universities: income and other taxes derived from students/staff/faculty; incubation for new enterprises in business, medicine, arts, science and more; and a hell of a lot of cultural vitality that otherwise wouldn't exist.

Not to mention the people. The students and faculties of those schools bring a lot of interesting, creative, intelligent people to this city and province. Maybe you guys think losing a few eggheads is no big deal, but there's a reason a city of 400,000 punches so far above its weight in so many ways. The relative size and vitality of our educational institutions is a big part of that.

OK, yeah that seems a little effed up.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

There are so many opportunities for savings it would easily pay for itself and still return a dividend back to the province.

We have too many universities, too many overpaid Presidents and administrators, too much expensive infrastructure, and too many unproductive 6-figure salary tenured profs who do not care one little bit about the education of their students.

So, we should eliminate some universities because too many people are being educated here? How much per capita is it costing the taxpayers of Nova Scotia to support all these universities vs other provinces and how does that balance out with the money that these students and their families put back into our economy? How does the size of the faculty/student body compare to the much larger universities located in other provinces?

Are six-figure salary tenured profs unique to Nova Scotia universities? How many more of those do we have in our province vs other provinces?

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

And too many of these tenured professors (especially in political science, women's studies and sociology) have wingnut social agendas that they feel they can foist on the malleable psyches of our children in a vain attempt to mold societal norms to fit their own beliefs.

Keith is right. There should be no more than four (maybe five) universities in Nova Scotia, including one overarching "University of Halifax". The administration should be gutted and whole programs of study eliminated. Some programs have no value to society (aside from raising whole new generations of agitators) and very few people would notice if they were eliminated.

Millions of dollars would be saved........

So our universities are polluting the malleable minds of our young people with thoughts of political change, feminism and social awareness? We need to eliminate whole programs of study so that we can eliminate thoughts of need for change?

How will amalgamating smaller universities into a larger one make things more efficient?

Should we start burning books?

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

It seems juvenile to me. Whether you were for or against it, the buildings are there, and they will most likely continue to be there for a long time.

The structure of the university system is a big issue to tackle but I will say that a lot of profs say stuff that's shockingly entitled and out of touch with most people, including students. There are a few South Ender profs who are very privileged and don't want the city to evolve if they think it might have any tiny downsides for them, even if others must pay a huge cost. A few of the BANANAs are profs at Dal and SMU.

So the profs who work at NS universities are different than profs in other parts of the country?

I find this whole discussion about NS universities quite perplexing. I had no idea that we were so unique in that matter.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Nobody is suggesting that the universities be shut down. But since you and me and every other NS taxpayer is on the hook for 60 cents of every dollar the universities spend, we should be demanding that they stop wasting our money.

You and MonctonRad both said that there are too many profs and too many programs of study. MR said there should be no more than four or five universities in the province, which, ipso facto, means some would have to close.

Anyway, yeah, there are some profs out there who say ridiculous things, who for the tenures-radical stereotype to a tee. But they comprise a very, very small proportion of the total. They're an easy target when you want to take potshots at the whole system though.

Trust me, most profs roll their eyes at the Larry Haiven-types too.

[Keith P.]

Just as some of the tenured profs are very out of touch with reality, the university administration here is equally out of touch with fiscal reality. The unis have not been forced to justify their spending by govt, hence their ability to pay retired Presidents $400K salaries for years after they left the building, and continuing to build ever more lavish palaces on campus. The cost of tuition has spiraled out of control as they download more and more of the runaway costs onto students.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Just as some of the tenured profs are very out of touch with reality, the university administration here is equally out of touch with fiscal reality. The unis have not been forced to justify their spending by govt, hence their ability to pay retired Presidents $400K salaries for years after they left the building, and continuing to build ever more lavish palaces on campus. The cost of tuition has spiraled out of control as they download more and more of the runaway costs onto students.

Is this different from universities in other provinces?

[JET]

I do wonder when Dal will decide it has enough big new buildings; maybe they're nice to look at, but somebody is paying for it. Universities may be building may be building new accessible buildings, but they are increasingly less accessible by people of limited means.