I think it is quite possible 1487 is just pointing out that a closure notice on the parking lot would be another progress indicator to look for. Another sign of this moving forward.
Ah, makes sense. Thanks MusicMan.
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"Imagine all the people, living life in peace." :Lennon
I took a walk around town today, to get some perspective shots. These will allow everyone to see what is there now, so we can get a perspective of what is there now, vs what we hope will be built.
Here are the perspective shots of the W Hotel site, as it looks today (12/27/2014).
The parking lot was pretty crowded today, about 85-90 cars, double parked. I guess if the cars are triple parked, another 15-20 cars could get in there, but that would be really tough.
Sorry for the over exposure on some of these. It's the best I can get from my iphone5.
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"Imagine all the people, living life in peace." :Lennon
Prince Music Theater across the street lost its ability to funds its operations and ceased operating on November 30. With the W rising, hopefully that is impetus to land a good tenant for that spot who will do a nice façade renovation. I'd love to see a cool bar or restaurant in there.
Haha if this gets built I think a lot of the people who live at the Ritz (in the back area) will be mad, since their view will now literally be of another building just a few feet away, it'll block everything!
Haha if this gets built I think a lot of the people who live at the Ritz (in the back area) will be mad, since their view will now literally be of another building just a few feet away, it'll block everything!
Nick, the design of the Ritz included the fact that a tower would be built next door. So, it will probably affect the occupants of the Ritz much less than you are thinking.
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"Imagine all the people, living life in peace." :Lennon
Nick, the design of the Ritz included the fact that a tower would be built next door. So, it will probably affect the occupants of the Ritz much less than you are thinking.
Most of the views in the Ritz are North, East and West. The W's blockage of Southern views will really only impact a small subset of condos. Mostly units A and H. Still, some nice views will be lost. Unit A will be impacted the most. It has the most significant Southern view and biggest dearth of other views (but still has some Eastern and Western vantages).
Speaking of the Ritz, what are people's thoughts as to whether it is a good time to buy a condo there with an expectation of selling within 5 years? On the one hand, there are so many unsold condos in the building. But that spot is still not that great. I really see the W giving it a shot of adrenaline. With that, the Avenir, and hopefully some other higher end tenants populating Chestnut between 16th and Broad in the next few years, I could really see values going up. But again on the other hand...with so many new luxury condos coming on market over the next few years, has the Ritz just missed the boat?
Speaking of the Ritz, what are people's thoughts as to whether it is a good time to buy a condo there with an expectation of selling within 5 years? On the one hand, there are so many unsold condos in the building. But that spot is still not that great. I really see the W giving it a shot of adrenaline. With that, the Avenir, and hopefully some other higher end tenants populating Chestnut between 16th and Broad in the next few years, I could really see values going up. But again on the other hand...with so many new luxury condos coming on market over the next few years, has the Ritz just missed the boat?
I would assume you can afford a gamble if you can afford a condo in there. That being said I think you will have to wait longer than 5 years. At some point butt fuggly 2 penn center and 1515 market are going to have to be redone and you'll have a really nice square which will increase the value of the Ritz condos. But by that time all the really wealthy people will be buying condos on Mars so who knows how that will effect the housing market.
I would assume you can afford a gamble if you can afford a condo in there. That being said I think you will have to wait longer than 5 years. At some point butt fuggly 2 penn center and 1515 market are going to have to be redone and you'll have a really nice square which will increase the value of the Ritz condos. But by that time all the really wealthy people will be buying condos on Mars so who knows how that will effect the housing market.
Lol. But I can't afford more than one Philly condo and don't want to live there for more than 5 years. But I don't know if it will take that long to see a nice boost in value, though. Chestnut just needs to continue improving (I'd like to see the W break ground, a good tenant pick up the theater space across the street, and the bank come in). 1515 market is currently up for sale, and I expect that the buyer would likely renovate as part of the purchase.
imo 1515 market is currently the next prime spot for a super tall. The buildings are extremely ugly and obviously need replaced.
Hmm...that would be pretty sweet. Perhaps close proximity to City Hall makes it a good spot for an iconic supertall. But with Market Street improving and vacant lots and parking lots further up (and University City being so hot), I think any supertall might be on one of those lots further up Market. In the 20s Also, how often are large commercial buildings razed entirely and replaced? Doesn't seem to be too often.
Hmm...that would be pretty sweet. Perhaps close proximity to City Hall makes it a good spot for an iconic supertall. With Market Street improving and vacant lots and parking lots further up (and University City being so hot), I think any supertall might be on one of those lots further up Market. In the 20s Also, how often are large commercial buildings razed entirely and replaced? Doesn't seem to be too often.
Need a strong anchor tenant for supertall. I would love to see the Dupont spinoff, Chemours, come in with its 1,000 some employees and serve as anchor for a new supertall. The company should work to get some great incentives from the city and tap into the chemists, engineers and youth market from all the Philadelphia universities. When the spinoff happens this summer, Dupont employees are leaving Wilmington for a suburban office park and the Chemours employees will occupy the Nemours building. For the time being. But the new company has not selected a headquarters.
imo 1515 market is currently the next prime spot for a super tall. The buildings are extremely ugly and obviously need replaced.
Ugly yes but economical to raze and replace? No. Philly hasn't reached that saturation point. And in any case, as ugly as some of those Penn Center buildings are, I prefer them to the many parking lots, gas stations (Sunoco on Walnut), drive thrus (Mcdonalds and Popeyes on South Broad), and other undertulized lots (Ride Aid on Walnut, Papa Johns on West Market, etc.) that can be found throughout CC.
Let's focus on developing those first, then we can worry about replacing ugly but perfectly useful buildings such as those in Penn Center as well as the much maligned commie co-op buildings.
Ugly yes but economical to raze and replace? No. Philly hasn't reached that saturation point. And in any case, as ugly as some of those Penn Center buildings are, I prefer them to the many parking lots, gas stations (Sunoco on Walnut), drive thrus (Mcdonalds and Popeyes on South Broad), and other undertulized lots (Ride Aid on Walnut, Papa Johns on West Market, etc.) that can be found throughout CC.
Let's focus on developing those first, then we can worry about replacing ugly but perfectly useful buildings such as those in Penn Center as well as the much maligned commie co-op buildings.
Agreed.
I would also note that as much as I dislike those commie co-op buildings, a LOT of people live in those buildings and that is a positive for center city. It is unlikely that if replaced, they would be replaced by residential. If they were replaced by residential, it is unlikely to be anything that accommodates nearly as many people or anything as affordable.
Right. There are more than enough empty lots and underutilized sites around the fringes of Center City for the complete replacement of functioning commercial properties to be viable.
That said, this is rapidly changing. I wouldn't be surprised if, by 2025 or so, the market conditions have changed.
Right. There are more than enough empty lots and underutilized sites around the fringes of Center City for the complete replacement of functioning commercial properties to be viable.
Around the fringes of Penn Center, even. In the heart of Center City too, especially if you consider the many decrepit, hideous garages.
There is no shortage of hideously underutilized sites in the heart of the city before productive (if dull) highrises are to be replaced.
Examples:
15 & Sansom
16-17 & Sansom S side
16 & Cherry (NE & SE cnrs)
19 & Cherry
20 & Arch
17 & Chestnut NW crnr
20 & Ranstead
13 & Market
13 & Arch
etc, etc, etc.
No one is tearing down post war highrises anytime soon with all the underutilized property still in Center City.
15th and Samson is the perfect place for a hotel in my view. It's a cool vibe with the bars and restaurants there and Rumor is across the street. Better place for that Hudson hotel to go than 17th and chancellor. The vibe of that hotel brand fits that spot. Agreed that we won't see any highrises or midrises torn down any time soon (however bland). No issues there. Those other garages/vacant lots really need to be put to good use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cro Burnham
Around the fringes of Penn Center, even. In the heart of Center City too, especially if you consider the many decrepit, hideous garages.
There is no shortage of hideously underutilized sites in the heart of the city before productive (if dull) highrises are to be replaced.
Examples:
15 & Sansom
16-17 & Sansom S side
16 & Cherry (NE & SE cnrs)
19 & Cherry
20 & Arch
17 & Chestnut NW crnr
20 & Ranstead
13 & Market
13 & Arch
etc, etc, etc.
No one is tearing down post war highrises anytime soon with all the underutilized property still in Center City.
Speaking of the Ritz, what are people's thoughts as to whether it is a good time to buy a condo there with an expectation of selling within 5 years? On the one hand, there are so many unsold condos in the building. But that spot is still not that great. I really see the W giving it a shot of adrenaline. With that, the Avenir, and hopefully some other higher end tenants populating Chestnut between 16th and Broad in the next few years, I could really see values going up. But again on the other hand...with so many new luxury condos coming on market over the next few years, has the Ritz just missed the boat?
Personally I think it sounds more like a 10 year investment. You'd be better off sinking that kind of money into a couple rowhouses in South Philly or Fishtown. I think short term profits are in upper-middle-class real estate as far as Philly is concerned...for now. The Ritz is by no means a bad location and it's getting better (Dilworth Park, W Hotel, and it's smack in the middle of CC), but the market seems to be trending away from the luxury bubble. Don't get me wrong, Philadelphia has probably some of the best investment potential in the nation (think DC or New York ten/fifteen years ago), I just think it'll take more than five years before the Ritz starts returning on what it is.
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