Halifax Stadium Discussion

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by cjones2451

Not being from NS, I am not sure of the issues, but what does a Liberal Gov't mean for getting a stadium in Halifax?

No one can be certain, and there are numerous opinions floating around.

The Liberals have made no announcements for such a project commitment. Their main focus, if the campaign was an honest indication, is dealing with lowering power rates and merging health authorities.

The Liberals promised more investment in rural Nova Scotia. Given how stadiums tend to lose money in the long-term, I believe 'entertainment dollars' in the relatively well-to-do capital city would not fly well in struggling rural areas. I don't think the NS Liberals will, at least one their own accord, make a stadium in Halifax a priority.

We'll see what success the CFL and HRM's mayor Mike Savage can achieve with their lobbying efforts.

Halifax still isn't even sure if a stadium is a priority -- or else we'd be pegged to a stadium location with at least a draft proposal, salivating at the mouth as we scream at the province for funds. The mayor has made some noise about it (and apparently had some meetings with the CFL), but no word yet....

Let's face it: there are limited funds available, considering the levels of debt we already have provincially -- and there are many necessary infrastructure projects for which city builders and private developers are waiting just in Halifax, such as a third bridge (or tunnel), such as LRT possibilities or so other form of public transit investments.

We'll see.

[TheNovaScotian]

Actually, we've discussed it and it is possible. The amount of buildings needing to be demolished would be a lot but most of them are not architectural gems. Alot of the surface parking for the entire area could be included in a parking structure.

I like the idea, its one of the only viable options on the peninsula. I am a fan of what Shannon Park could turn into with a little help but see the merit in the Forum Lands.

If you could index the bricks and lay out and moved away from the street, the Forum could still be the street level part of the bowl and the steel grandstands would rise out from it.
With the hope of a commuter/LRT/Streetcars mix for rapid transit it would be near one of the more important crossroads in Halifax

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by TheNovaScotian

Actually, we've discussed it and it is possible. The amount of buildings needing to be demolished would be a lot but most of them are not architectural gems. Alot of the surface parking for the entire area could be included in a parking structure.

Who's discussed it, and which location are you referring to?

[ILoveHalifax]

Originally Posted by cjones2451

Not being from NS, I am not sure of the issues, but what does a Liberal Gov't mean for getting a stadium in Halifax?

I thought Stephen McNeil was quite definite that he would be happy to consider a stadium if a proposal was brought to him. Quite unlike our retiring premier who refused when a proposal was brought to him, 2 years ago.

[ILoveHalifax]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Who's discussed it, and which location are you referring to?

I believe he is talking about the forum lands.

Fenwick, did you do an overlay of a stadium on the forum lands?

[Phalanx]

Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax

I thought Stephen McNeil was quite definite that he would be happy to consider a stadium if a proposal was brought to him. Quite unlike our retiring premier who refused when a proposal was brought to him, 2 years ago.

No, he said he'd entertain the idea, but would need to see what it looked like. The other two said they'd need to see a business case... In other words they all said the same thing...

[ILoveHalifax]

Originally Posted by Phalanx

No, he said he'd entertain the idea, but would need to see what it looked like. The other two said they'd need to see a business case... In other words they all said the same thing...

Are you quoting him? I don't see a big difference between my sentence
'he would be happy to consider a stadium if a proposal was brought to him' and your sentence 'he said he'd entertain the idea, but would need to see what it looked like'.
As far as Darrell, my point is that he said no last time he had a presentation from HRM, so his wishy washy answer to the question didn't mean much.

[Phalanx]

No, he said he'd have to see a business case. It wasn't a flat 'no'.

In the end, it's the same thing. Spinspinspinspin.

[ILoveHalifax]

Originally Posted by Phalanx

No, he said he'd have to see a business case. It wasn't a flat 'no'.

In the end, it's the same thing. Spinspinspinspin.

Yeah!
Keep spinning

[ILoveHalifax]

Originally Posted by TheNovaScotian

Actually, we've discussed it and it is possible. The amount of buildings needing to be demolished would be a lot but most of them are not architectural gems. Alot of the surface parking for the entire area could be included in a parking structure.

I like the idea, its one of the only viable options on the peninsula. I am a fan of what Shannon Park could turn into with a little help but see the merit in the Forum Lands.

If you could index the bricks and lay out and moved away from the street, the Forum could still be the street level part of the bowl and the steel grandstands would rise out from it.
With the hope of a commuter/LRT/Streetcars mix for rapid transit it would be near one of the more important crossroads in Halifax

Page 58 of this forum, post 1152, has an overlay of a stadium on the forum lands. I doesn't fit unless we take out the post office.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by Phalanx

No, he said he'd have to see a business case. It wasn't a flat 'no'.

In the end, it's the same thing. Spinspinspinspin.

Yep. Lots of spin.
And party ideologues take the bait and retranslate according to their own bias.

When you examine what each party leader briefly said about a potential stadium -- they essentially all said the same thing.

Even though McNeil did not say yes to a stadium, I certainly hope a business case can eventually be made, because even if we manage to get the ball rollin' on this proposal within the next few years, construction time will be considerable.

Halifax still has a ways to go before a stadium.

[Phalanx]

Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax

Yeah!
Keep spinning

Sorry, just trying to spell out the obvious for the people who actually think McNeil sad something different...

Some people need help seeing it, after all.

[ns_kid]

That a city the size of Halifax has no functional public stadium is lamentable, but a stadium will not be built without significant leadership and financial support from the corporate sector and from potential users. And here I am looking to the city's universities. There are four undergrad institutions in this city with athletic programs but none have shown any willingness to colloborate or take any meaningful role in the construction of a civic stadium. Some of them have, however, had no hesitation in coming hat-in-hand to governments looking for taxpayers to fund athletic facilities on their own campuses.

[ILoveHalifax]

Originally Posted by Phalanx

Sorry, just trying to spell out the obvious for the people who actually think McNeil sad something different...

Some people need help seeing it, after all.

Thank you for all your help.

Yes, I think McNeil said something different than Dexter who said no 2 years ago and did not indicate any change since then.

But, since you get to tell everybody what to think have at it.

Much appreciated.

I hope you recognize sarcasm.

[Nilan8888]

That's a fair point ns_kid.

Frankly, I'm not sure some of those institutions would be able to do much. I hear NSCAD is a bit of a basket case.

But Dalhousie could make some HUGE contributions. And SMU could also offer a somewhat lesser contribution (although still substantial).

There should be some sort of petition to lobby these organizations to at least have a talk or two with Mayor Savage. I mean, lord knows they've been building facility after facility for themselves (at least Dalhousie has -- in 11-12 years they've build the CS building, the Business building, the Social Sciences Building, the Management Building, a research building, and at least two totally new residences plus an extension on an existing one).

A Stadium would probably be a huge draw to further student enrollment.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by Nilan8888

(...) Dalhousie could make some HUGE contributions. And SMU could also offer a somewhat lesser contribution (although still substantial).

There should be some sort of petition to lobby these organizations to at least have a talk or two with Mayor Savage. I mean, lord knows they've been building facility after facility for themselves (at least Dalhousie has -- in 11-12 years they've build the CS building, the Business building, the Social Sciences Building, the Management Building, a research building, and at least two totally new residences plus an extension on an existing one).

A Stadium would probably be a huge draw to further student enrollment.

I have a very strong impression that Dalhousie would want the stadium located as closely as bloody possible to one of their campuses.

The VG site is at the edge of their Carleton Campus.

[Nilan8888]

Well, IDEALLY that's a problem because you don't necessarily want a contributor to have THAT much control over something this big.

However in this case that might not be such a bad thing, since Dalhousie is actually pretty central, geography-wise. So a Stadium close to Dalhousie is not really as big an issue as it might be in some other cities. Even if it were the Mount footing the money and insisting it be built nearby, it's still not THAT far away.

But you never know until you try, right? I doubt the Universities would be SO unreasonable as to say 'no' if the location had to be over in Dartmouth. It's not like they're Tea Party Republicans.

[ns_kid]

Originally Posted by Nilan8888

I doubt the Universities would be SO unreasonable as to say 'no' if the location had to be over in Dartmouth.

I would like to think you're right. But I do recall former councillor and SMU booster Sue Uteck saying two years ago, when possible sites were shortlisted, that Shannon Park was unsuitable, and that fixing up Husky Stadium was only way to go. She voted against proceeding with any new stadium when it became clear the campus was out of the running. "We can’t afford a new stadium, fix up Saint Mary’s," she told Metro Halifax. At taxpayers' expense of course.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Why not a location near the Bedford Commons area, where there is still a lot of undeveloped land and major highway access? Not as convenient for urban dwellers, but would facilitate people who wish to travel from out of town but still be close enough for Haligonians to access it through Highway 102. Also, once the Burnside extension is built (someday...), there would be easy access for people from Dartmouth, Cole Hbr, etc. Rather than trying to squeeze it into a downtown location with little to no provisions for parking or trying to pry public commons lands away from the people, maybe look for a place that will work for everybody. Would be really easy to run transit from the downtown out there for games, special events, etc., as well.

Regarding payment, don't know if this has been covered at all as I haven't been following this thread to any great extent, but why not court large Nova Scotia-based companies to toss in some $$ in exchange for naming it after them/advertisement/product placement exclusivity, etc., as has been done with just about every other major city in North America. Why not the Sobeys Stadium, or Tim Horton's Stadium, etc. Then this might be an easier sell to "everybody" and may cut down the suggested 10-year waiting time and be less of a burden to taxpayers.

Just my , nothing more nothing less.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Why not a location near the Bedford Commons area, where there is still a lot of undeveloped land and major highway access? Not as convenient for urban dwellers, but would facilitate people who wish to travel from out of town but still be close enough for Haligonians to access it through Highway 102.

This is actually important to consider, and I think maybe the discussion has been so focused on Halifax it's been ignored. Sporting and entertainment events held at any stadium would be important regionally, not just for the city itself. Do we want thousands of people from far-flung parts of HRM and NB clogging up the bridges every game/concert night?

Frankly, I think if it requires this much shoehorning to get a stadium downtown, that might be an indication that it's not worth it. Stadiums don't need to be right smack in the centre of town, and usually aren't. Without good transit to get suburbanites into the city, it could be a constant traffic disaster. (Remember: Toronto might have a downtown stadium, but it also has GO, the regional transit system connecting far-flung suburbs, to bring people to Union Station, right around the corner from the stadium).

It would be nice to for it to be downtown, but if we're looking for ways to further revitalize the core, a stadium is way below, say, residential development that brings in permanent residents. Expropriating existing buildings and/or tossing away develop-able land in order to squeeze in a stadium strikes me as not necessarily the best use of limited land resources.

I'd change my tune if a good site could be found, and if the project spurred some kind of transit development to deal with the traffic.