Halifax Stadium Discussion

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by wespidel

And if Halifax ridiculously thinks they will be a player if they build their embarrassing bare boned 10 to 14,000 permanent seat stadium that can like Moncton's be only expanded to only a maxium of 25 or 27 thousand, they are dreaming. Unless Halifax or Quebec city can build a ready made CFL model stadium, with 25 to 30 thousand permanent seats, expandable to 45 to 50 thousand, and with all the amenities needed in a stadium today such as skyboxes, VIP lounges, club seats, restaurants,etc., in order to be viable, there will not be a 10th CFL franchise in Canada.

Halifax needs someone to stand up and lead a major CFL model stadium project, if they want to take an advantage of a huge opportunity to have the only major stadium in Atlantic Canada, to become the sports and entertainment capital of Atlantic Canada, which being the largest city in the region, should want to be!

I think this must be a virus in the skyscraperpage online forum. Certainly this cannot be a real person who keeps repeating the same thing over and over and over .... (and keeps demanding respect)

Surely Haligonians can tell the CFL that if the CFL can't accept a reasonably priced 25,000 seat stadium then Halifax and the Maritimes don't need them. Personally, I prefer the NFL. I would only watch the CFL on the regular basis if Halifax had a team. If the CFL needs iconic stadiums to lure people to the games then it isn't worth watching.

[Drybrain]

Expandable to 50,000 seats? Unless you'd expect 1/8th of the HRM's entire population to regularly attend games, that's ludicrous.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Expandable to 50,000 seats? Unless you'd expect 1/8th of the HRM's entire population to regularly attend games, that's ludicrous.

Even if you are obsessed with the idea of a stadium it is counter-productive to ask for things like that because it adds to the perception that the project will be overly expensive or a white elephant. Halifax doesn't even have a CFL team and there isn't a 100% guarantee that a gold-plated facility would result in a team or that a team will be viable over the long term.

fenwick16 has posted a bunch of designs that would have a decent capacity and could be built with a reasonable construction budget.

[q12]

I just realized this thread is approaching 5000 posts.

[wespidel]

Originally Posted by someone123

The FIFA bid was very strange. The bid itself was basically just a way to get a stadium built, but its stadium requirements didn't match the city's requirements going in.

One of the problems was that the CWGs became a "hot potato" and the idea of a stadium was dropped entirely for years. Instead, a limited planning process should have continued based on the planning work that was already done for the games. It makes sense now for council to come up with a firm idea of requirements (size, location, amenities) and then either pay for a bare bones expandable version or bid on an event that fits an established vision for the facility.

I don't think the stadium has to be 100% CFL-ready before a CFL team even exists, and that probably doesn't make sense financially or politically. It would be better to try to finance a smaller project at first and then announce a bit more funding a few years later if and when the CFL is on board (if that sort of staging works with the construction project -- sometimes it doesn't because there are huge setup and teardown costs).

This makes no sense and will end up being another dog, and a total eyesore and will sit empty and ever attract a CFL franchise, and be a total waste of 60 million dollars. If Halifax wants to build a stadium, build it right or don't build it!

[wespidel]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I think this must be a virus in the skyscraperpage online forum. Certainly this cannot be a real person who keeps repeating the same thing over and over and over .... (and keeps demanding respect)

Surely Haligonians can tell the CFL that if the CFL can't accept a reasonably priced 25,000 seat stadium then Halifax and the Maritimes don't need them. Personally, I prefer the NFL. I would only watch the CFL on the regular basis if Halifax had a team. If the CFL needs iconic stadiums to lure people to the games then it isn't worth watching.

It's obvious you don't know much about the CFL, because you don't even follow it and it shows. So please don't question what I know to be fact. I don't watch NFL football because I believe it's know more than, "Outdoor Arena Football" which I believe is super overrated and super over- hyped! But I know a lot about the CFL, and have been in every CFL stadium and attended 15 Grey Cups. So I suggest that you stop taking shots at me, I think you have done it enough, and perchaps learn something about the CFL first before you make a comment.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by wespidel

It's obvious you don't know much about the CFL, because you don't even follow it and it shows. So please don't question what I know to be fact. I don't watch NFL football because I believe it's know more than, "Outdoor Arena Football" which I believe is super overrated and super over- hyped! But I know a lot about the CFL, and have been in every CFL stadium and attended 15 Grey Cups. So I suggest that you stop taking shots at me, I think you have done it enough, and perchaps learn something about the CFL first before you make a comment.

I'd like to point out a few things:

This isn't a CFL forum, or even a CFL thread. It is a "Halifax Stadium Discussion" on a forum that focuses primarily on architecture and urban design.

Having followed this thread for several years, I can assure you that the heart of this thread is in fact "Halifax Stadium Discussion", not "How can we make absolutely sure that Halifax gets a CFL team??????" Generally we are discussing the reasons that the city would need a new stadium, what it could be used for, where it could be located, what kinds of features would be appropriate/necessary in the local context, how much it would cost, and where the money would come from. Many people on this thread probably don't even care if we ever get a CFL team. Most are not hardcore CFL fans. Most do, however, have a basic understanding of the economics and logistics of professional sports. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean that they don't know what they're talking about.

Because this is a stadium thread, and not a CFL thread, the general consensus here is that Halifax should build a stadium because it lacks one and it would be useful for many different types of sports/events. Most of us do not think that Halifax necessarily needs to build a "CFL-ready" stadium, because attracting a CFL team isn't the main goal. Getting a stadium built is the main goal. Though obviously, the hope is that if the stadium isn't "CFL-ready" right out of the gate, that it could easily be upgraded/altered to meet any specifications that the CFL indicates. We know that you think that the CFL will tell us to go fuck ourselves if the stadium doesn't have "all the latest amenities", for real, you don't have to tell us again. Most of us are willing to take the slight risk that we might not immediately get a CFL team, because, again, that's not the point of this thread.

Finally, I'd like to point out that the FIFA-specific soccer stadium (the <25,000 seat "bare bones" stadium that the city proposed about a year ago) is completely dead in the water. The proposal was specifically for the FIFA bid, and was abandoned when the city decided not to bid on the tournament. No one thinks we should build that at this point, so it would be nice if you'd stop saying things like "Why would Hfx want a small bare boned university football stadium like Moncton's?" ...Because nobody, NOBODY, thinks that we should build that. We've tried to make that clear.

When people say that we should start with a something simple or "bare bones", I think they mean along the lines of McMahon as opposed to say, BC Place or the new Regina stadium. It would have "necessary" amenities but few luxuries or unnecessary expenses.

[wespidel]

People on this site as a much vision as this city, and that's None!

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by wespidel

People on this site as a much vision as this city, and that's None!

Then your next 'thought' should be clear, because YOU haven't a reason to keep posting here.

[Hali87]

You're right Wespidel, nobody gets it but you. Thanks for the helpful feedback. I can tell that my last post was totally not a waste of 40 minutes.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Hali87

I'd like to point out a few things:

This isn't a CFL forum, or even a CFL thread. It is a "Halifax Stadium Discussion" on a forum that focuses primarily on architecture and urban design.

Having followed this thread for several years, I can assure you that the heart of this thread is in fact "Halifax Stadium Discussion", not "How can we make absolutely sure that Halifax gets a CFL team??????" Generally we are discussing the reasons that the city would need a new stadium, what it could be used for, where it could be located, what kinds of features would be appropriate/necessary in the local context, how much it would cost, and where the money would come from. Many people on this thread probably don't even care if we ever get a CFL team. Most are not hardcore CFL fans. Most do, however, have a basic understanding of the economics and logistics of professional sports. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean that they don't know what they're talking about.

Because this is a stadium thread, and not a CFL thread, the general consensus here is that Halifax should build a stadium because it lacks one and it would be useful for many different types of sports/events. Most of us do not think that Halifax necessarily needs to build a "CFL-ready" stadium, because attracting a CFL team isn't the main goal. Getting a stadium built is the main goal. Though obviously, the hope is that if the stadium isn't "CFL-ready" right out of the gate, that it could easily be upgraded/altered to meet any specifications that the CFL indicates. We know that you think that the CFL will tell us to go fuck ourselves if the stadium doesn't have "all the latest amenities", for real, you don't have to tell us again. Most of us are willing to take the slight risk that we might not immediately get a CFL team, because, again, that's not the point of this thread.

Finally, I'd like to point out that the FIFA-specific soccer stadium (the <25,000 seat "bare bones" stadium that the city proposed about a year ago) is completely dead in the water. The proposal was specifically for the FIFA bid, and was abandoned when the city decided not to bid on the tournament. No one thinks we should build that at this point, so it would be nice if you'd stop saying things like "Why would Hfx want a small bare boned university football stadium like Moncton's?" ...Because nobody, NOBODY, thinks that we should build that. We've tried to make that clear.

When people say that we should start with a something simple or "bare bones", I think they mean along the lines of McMahon as opposed to say, BC Place or the new Regina stadium. It would have "necessary" amenities but few luxuries or unnecessary expenses.

Well said!

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Hali87

I'd like to point out a few things:

This isn't a CFL forum, or even a CFL thread. It is a "Halifax Stadium Discussion" on a forum that focuses primarily on architecture and urban design.

Having followed this thread for several years, I can assure you that the heart of this thread is in fact "Halifax Stadium Discussion", not "How can we make absolutely sure that Halifax gets a CFL team??????" Generally we are discussing the reasons that the city would need a new stadium, what it could be used for, where it could be located, what kinds of features would be appropriate/necessary in the local context, how much it would cost, and where the money would come from. Many people on this thread probably don't even care if we ever get a CFL team. Most are not hardcore CFL fans. Most do, however, have a basic understanding of the economics and logistics of professional sports. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean that they don't know what they're talking about.

Because this is a stadium thread, and not a CFL thread, the general consensus here is that Halifax should build a stadium because it lacks one and it would be useful for many different types of sports/events. Most of us do not think that Halifax necessarily needs to build a "CFL-ready" stadium, because attracting a CFL team isn't the main goal. Getting a stadium built is the main goal. Though obviously, the hope is that if the stadium isn't "CFL-ready" right out of the gate, that it could easily be upgraded/altered to meet any specifications that the CFL indicates. We know that you think that the CFL will tell us to go fuck ourselves if the stadium doesn't have "all the latest amenities", for real, you don't have to tell us again. Most of us are willing to take the slight risk that we might not immediately get a CFL team, because, again, that's not the point of this thread.

Finally, I'd like to point out that the FIFA-specific soccer stadium (the <25,000 seat "bare bones" stadium that the city proposed about a year ago) is completely dead in the water. The proposal was specifically for the FIFA bid, and was abandoned when the city decided not to bid on the tournament. No one thinks we should build that at this point, so it would be nice if you'd stop saying things like "Why would Hfx want a small bare boned university football stadium like Moncton's?" ...Because nobody, NOBODY, thinks that we should build that. We've tried to make that clear.

When people say that we should start with a something simple or "bare bones", I think they mean along the lines of McMahon as opposed to say, BC Place or the new Regina stadium. It would have "necessary" amenities but few luxuries or unnecessary expenses.

My thoughts exactly but you expressed it much better and more concisely than I could have.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Expandable to 50,000 seats? Unless you'd expect 1/8th of the HRM's entire population to regularly attend games, that's ludicrous.

Quite right. Halifax may like football, but you're no Regina. They get closer to 15% of their metropolitan population showing up at the stadium.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax

I live in Halifax. Maybe somebody can tell me why I should come to Moncton. What am I missing by not going there?

Only been to Moncton a few times, but they have better beaches in their region and you're likely to end up fully bilingual which is a bonus, imo. Other than that, I'm not sure.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Only been to Moncton a few times, but they have better beaches in their region and you're likely to end up fully bilingual which is a bonus, imo. Other than that, I'm not sure.

Just out of curiosity, is the French spoken in Moncton mostly Chiac or "regular" French? (for lack of a better word)

[GlassCity]

I don't really want to get in the middle of this, but I am not a smart man. CFL ready doesn't mean "flashy". A bare-boned 25,000 seat stadium with some private boxes would work fine. Expandable to 40,000 is to host a Grey Cup, which people go to from all over the country, since it seems some people don't know that here. All this talk about a 250 million dollar stadium is stupid though. You could build a solid stadium with only 50. You don't need to build a BC Place or Skydome, but a simple small stadium would suit a CFL team just fine.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by Hali87

Just out of curiosity, is the French spoken in Moncton mostly Chiac or "regular" French? (for lack of a better word)

There are several French dialects established in the Moncton region -- the largest group being Chiac, but it's certainly not the largest by far considering many of the Acadians and Brayons living in the region are from northern New Brunswick and have a more traditional dialect than the francophones who were born and raised in the south.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'regular' French, but there are Québécois living in the region, mostly in Dieppe, and their dialect maintains many 17th Century words that people in France today no longer use. There are actually immigrants from France living in the Moncton area that converse more easily with Acadians who speak Chiac.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I don't really want to get in the middle of this, but I am not a smart man. CFL ready doesn't mean "flashy". A bare-boned 25,000 seat stadium with some private boxes would work fine. Expandable to 40,000 is to host a Grey Cup, which people go to from all over the country, since it seems some people don't know that here. All this talk about a 250 million dollar stadium is stupid though. You could build a solid stadium with only 50. You don't need to build a BC Place or Skydome, but a simple small stadium would suit a CFL team just fine.

I agree. My idea of such a stadium would be a cross between Edmonton's Commonwealth Stadium (but scaled down to 25,000 permanent seats) and Akron's InfoCision Stadium.

Edmonton's Commonwealth Stadium
Pro: concrete upper and lower tiers, sunken lower bowl and mostly folding seats
Con: too large for Halifax
(source: http://www.edmonton.ca/attractions_recreation/sport_recreation/stadiums-and-sports-fields.aspx )



Akron's InfoCision Stadium
Pro: a good size and cost for Halifax with sunken, concrete lower level and open endzones for temporary expansion
Con: the upper tier is constructed of aluminum stands and it is all bench seating (but still a fantastic stadium - I have been there for a college game but I mainly went to take pictures, which I posted previously)
(source: https://www.uakron.edu/dotAsset/611953.jpg )


Although I have mentioned a McMahon type stadium in the past (which is also partly sunken) the big advantage to a basic two tier stadium is that it provides plenty of accessible seating with good field views.

[hoser111]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

There are several French dialects established in the Moncton region -- the largest group being Chiac, but it's certainly not the largest by far considering many of the Acadians and Brayons living in the region are from northern New Brunswick and have a more traditional dialect than the francophones who were born and raised in the south.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'regular' French, but there are Québécois living in the region, mostly in Dieppe, and their dialect maintains many 17th Century words that people in France today no longer use. There are actually immigrants from France living in the Moncton area that converse more easily with Acadians who speak Chiac.

Not to mention there is no lack of Fr-english spoken. ( a tu du change pour un two dollar bill?) lol

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

I'm not sure what you mean by 'regular' French...

I guess I just meant French that would be more intelligible to the average French speaker than the Chiac dialect.